Discussion Topic |
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 19, 2011 - 11:30am PT
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I have already posted a similar topic on UKClimbing. I live in Ajaccio on the island of Corsica where I “work” as a photographer. I have also been a collector of climbing equipment for many decades now, specializing in "artificial chockstones". I wrote the original article Nuts' Story: 2001 a Nut Odyssey published in the British magazine High Mountain Sports in June 2001 to commemorate the fortieth anniversary of the first purpose designed nut ever marketed, the John Brailsford Acorn. You can find this article on the following link:
http://needlesports.com/NeedleSports/nutsmuseum/nutsstory.htm
Here is what I believe to be the only advertisement for the Acorns that was published in Mountain 12 in November 1970.
In spite of a great deal of research, there are still a few old protection devices which my collection is regrettably missing, and among them, the two biggest sizes of the Acorn. The reason why I really would like to complete the set of John Brailsford’s Acorns as soon as possible is that these mythical nuts, the real cornerstones of the Nuts’ Story, have half a century of history in 2011! For this occasion, I would love to celebrate such an anniversary with a full set of these rare nuts in the Nuts Museum. If you have any of these historical nuts and are willing to part with them, I would be over the moon. These treasures would find a fantastic retirement here in Corsica.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jan 19, 2011 - 12:38pm PT
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These treasures would find a fantastic retirement here in Corsica.
If I supply you do I get to retire in Corsica too?
I don't have any but if the answer is yes then I guarantee I'll get some!
Mythical nut bump!
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Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
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Jan 19, 2011 - 03:03pm PT
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Wonderful history. Thanks for posting the link to your article.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2012 - 11:26am PT
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bump!
Maybe, somewhere in Britain, an old but still active climber will read my request... Who knows...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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You are much closer to the source than we are over here, my friend.
I have some recollection that the wired versions shown at the bottom were sold as Clog "Truncated Cone Nuts". Have you heard that product name?
I love the top nut detail which solves the main design problem of a bulky knot! A second size to place once the acorn slides down.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2012 - 12:30pm PT
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I love the top nut detail which solves the main design problem of a bulky knot! A second size to place once the acorn slides down. John Braisford Acorn was the very first "nest of nuts".
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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That is one scathing review! LOL
Very funny that both companies threw that design back into the mix when they did.
A funky shot of the Clog offerings with a big ole Peck Cracker.
I bought this fistful of nuts at the Boulder Mountaineer almost forty years ago. Bob Culp was such a good guy that he would let people sell used gear back in the corner!
What the hell are these? Clearly no attitude adjustment allowed.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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I should be in the "Nuts Museum"
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Mimi
climber
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SteveW: Steve says we'll all end up in the Old Nuts Pension on the sunny side of Corsica. I can't wait!
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Nov 10, 2012 - 01:18am PT
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Mimi
Give him my best. It sure was great seeing him
earlier this year.
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Roxy
Trad climber
CA Central Coast
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Nov 10, 2012 - 10:44am PT
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some sweet history. Nice!
"Acorns", good name for stoppers
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 10, 2012 - 06:18pm PT
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I wonder if Roger Turner is still around forty two years on...
Are you after the two slung sizes of upgraded Acorns (with a knurled top) or the cabled versions to complete your nutstory?
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 12, 2012 - 05:26am PT
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I do have the small Acorn on rope (with the machine nut), but I am still searching for the two bigger sizes. One of two small sizes in the Nuts Museum was given to me by Roger Turner. It was the only sample that he and his lovely wife Beryl had treasured.
Below is another Acorn in good condition, complete, with its long "hawser" laid rope and the machine nut. In the early sixties British climbers used to carry their nuts around their neck. This Acorn belonged to Hank Harrison, of the Summit Club, with whom John Brailsford did the East Face of the Grépon in the early 1960s.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Nov 12, 2012 - 11:18am PT
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In the early sixties British climbers used to carry their nuts around their neck.
You can say that again. They got this whole bold climbing thing started.
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micronut
Trad climber
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Nov 12, 2012 - 11:24am PT
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Hehe. Nuts.
A few years ago, a buddy and I bought a pair of truck nuts and mounted them on our mutual friend's truck without him knowing. He drove around for a week. Great prank.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Nov 12, 2012 - 11:48am PT
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Anybody here ever climb with actual machine nuts? I've only read about that. Some of the climbers here have gear that looks like it was made by blacksmiths, and were climbers back when the concept of "clean climbing" was invented.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Nov 25, 2012 - 02:45pm PT
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This is what the well-hung clean climber looked like in 1971!
Tom Frost photo of the Boss.
I liked the long slung days myself. Battling a fist crack and ducking out of a shoulder slung Hex to place it. Great stuff!
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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Nov 25, 2012 - 03:39pm PT
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I love the machine nut inside the acorn! I'll post some pics of some things I made about 1971 for nesting nuts.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Nov 25, 2012 - 06:08pm PT
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What about Colorado nuts?
They were pretty early.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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1967-68 if I recall correctly on the Colorado Nuts.
Lots of nut shaping going on ahead of the 1971-72 Chouinard designs that had to wait until Tom Frost came back from Annapurna South Face by way of England in 1970 and was sent out cragging in the Lake District with a rack of nuggets du jour selected by Chris Bonington along with a few persuasive words about clean climbing.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 3, 2015 - 02:35am PT
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One more addition to the "Acorn Museum"
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Stephane'
Good luck with your search!
Regards,
Steve
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2015 - 07:33am PT
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After some further research, I came to the following conclusion: in fact there are, to my knowledge, three generations of Acorns.
- The original Acorn. Made from 1961 by John Brailsford in three sizes (3/4”, 1”, 1 ¼”) with a machine nut (1/2”) on the top of the chock, and marketed in the Roger Turner Mountain Sports shop (Nottingham).
- Roger Turner Mountain Sports. Small Acorn on stitched tape sling or on wire; made by Paul Seddon (Parba) but not wired by himself, in 1969. Large Acorn on 7mm Perlon rope, unknown manufacturer.
- Clogwyn Climbing Gear. Acorn wiresling nuts (1971), made in three sizes, n°1 (wire Ø 2,5mm), n°2 (wire Ø 4mm), and n°3 (wire Ø 4mm). The top of the nut is knurled.
Steve, when looking more and more closely at your photograph, I have discovered that this Acorn is the one missing in my Clog collection...
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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The next time I see it I will send it your way. There should be plenty of these around as they weren't a very practical design.
Where does Harry Smith fit into your timeline unless you are purposefully narrowing your investigation down to the first commercially available nut.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2015 - 08:50am PT
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Ho… thank you very much Steve… But... do you mean “the next time I see the one on the photograph” or “ the next time I see another sample n°3”…? It does not mean the same thing as I promise you that such a n°3 is not that common. It would be rather unfair not to inform you about this…
Regarding Harry Smith, are you telling me that I would have to write "The First (Marketed) Purpose Designed Nut"…
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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The next time I have reason to go through the Clog box in storage I will fish out the Truncated Cone Treasure for you and send it along with a few other nuts that have been waiting to be mailed to Corsica. Are you writing something else about these nuts and need this one quickly?
I recall asking Culp what I was buying and his response with a laugh was a "Clog Truncated Cone Nut". I never heard "Acorn" until you started this thread.
No need to change your OP Maestro.
Just a clarification on the information that you are actually seeking. To try and set a date on the first shaped metal nut made by anyone would be very difficult to say the least. Since this all started with a pocketful of carefully chosen pebbles then the first chap now long gone to shape one with a grindstone would likely have the great honor of being the Original Nut.
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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There should be plenty of these around as they weren't a very practical design.
Steve, once you take care of Nutstory, please let me know how I can add some to my collection as well.....
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2015 - 09:18am PT
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Are you writing something else about these nuts and need this one quickly? No "special" hurry Steve, just an "ordinary" hurry... (again Supertopians, forgive my so poorly spoken English)
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2015 - 12:21am PT
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2015 - 12:26am PT
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Steve, here is the kind of home-made Christmas Card that you might well get in December if I ever receive a small package from you... soon... ;-)
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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Jul 25, 2015 - 07:48am PT
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Clog Box!
Clog Box!
Clog Box!
Clog Box!
%^)
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 13, 2015 - 09:28am PT
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Steve, will you be able to forgive such a joke one day...?
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Aug 13, 2015 - 10:10am PT
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That's funny!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Aug 13, 2015 - 10:45am PT
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Time marches on....
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2015 - 12:25am PT
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Jaybro, what car is this...? OK, I joke...
What an army ("Number Nine, Number Nine Number Nine..." as The Beatles sang...)! Please Jaybro, could you tell me a little more about the 6 big cams with rigid stem (and… no trigger bar!) on the right of your photograph…? The sample on the background has most impressive lightening holes.
And… guys, I am 60 on August 30th so "If You Really Want To Be my Friend" (as The Rolling Stones sing) and celebrate such a birthday, it’s time to run to the Post Office…
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Aug 14, 2015 - 07:55am PT
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Happy Birthday!
 your Eiger Hex is going up to Steve on Monday.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2015 - 08:16am PT
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Ho... merci beaucoup Roots!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 21, 2015 - 01:25pm PT
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Maestro Pennequin- Your wish is our command and Art's beauty of an Eiger wired Hex just arrived today. Send me your preferred mailing address and I will send you a box of goodies next week.
Do you have an original Lowe Tuber in your collection? Show me what you have and I will add to it as needed.
Cheers,
Steve Grossman
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 27, 2015 - 09:30am PT
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PM sent!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Oct 28, 2015 - 11:59am PT
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At long last your box of goodies is in order Maestro Pennequin and I am waiting to hear back about one item before I send it out.
Do you still have any missing items in your Campbell Nut selection?
How about Gendarme Nuts and I only mean wedges?
Cheers,
Steve Grossman
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2015 - 01:52am PT
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PM sent... Master Grossman, I sincerely hope that you won’t be too much afraid by my "missing nuts list"…;-)
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Oct 29, 2015 - 07:19am PT
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Pretty damn kool
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Oct 29, 2015 - 07:31am PT
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In life a man only needs two nuts, then everything else falls into place from there.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Oct 29, 2015 - 08:45am PT
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Two nuts!
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 29, 2015 - 09:19am PT
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Wow... Marty, I’m most flattered and very pleased to see that you also treasure my old handwritten little papers... :-)
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Oct 29, 2015 - 03:04pm PT
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Stephane,
I have every correspondence that you have sent me that is written by hand. Every card, note, shipping label and gift. I have most of the computer generated emails as well but for some reason the computer correspondence (besides the data and documenting and the sharing), doesn't hold strong personal value like the hand written letters do.
Yes even Stephane is part of the Karabin Climbing Museum. Thanks for your 20 years of support!
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 23, 2015 - 03:25am PT
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Without Steve Grossman’s immense generosity, to date, I would not have been able to post such a photograph here on Supertopo: the full set of the Clogwyn Climbing Gear Acorn Wiresling Nuts! After more than twenty years of difficult research, disappointed hopes, the set of these exotics nuts is now complete! What a Christmas present… Life is beautiful!
Thank you very much Master Grossman!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Dec 25, 2015 - 11:47am PT
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A Very Merry Christmas to you Maestro Pennequin.
Were it not for Bob Culp's generosity in allowing folks to sell used gear at the Boulder Mountaineer several rare nuts wouldn't be in my collection at all. The Acorn of your desire has been kicking around my gear box for four decades.
The tiny Gendarme Nut on yellow perlon also belonged to Bob before we sent it your way in the box of Holiday Mixed Nuts. Now I just need to find you a #2 and #4 in mint shape.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 26, 2015 - 07:07am PT
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So Steve, these two little nuts are what I suspected them to be: genuine treasures! Many, many thanks for these awesome surprises. My The Gendarme Dual Taper Wedge #5 was given to me twenty years ago by the former owner of C.M.I., Ethan Becker. It is only several years later that I discovered what this nut really was. It stayed alone for a long long time…
And… no matter the condition, a #2 and a #4 would be great additions to the Nuts Museum…
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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I mentioned this over on the Eiger Company thread but do so again here, the medium Gendarme Nut came from the gear of a very well loved Boulder climber, Jennifer Martin, who tragically passed away not long ago.
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JC Marin
Trad climber
CA
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This is a great thread--if even 1% more of the internet was like this it would be a much better world.
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i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
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Dec 18, 2016 - 02:02pm PT
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Hey micronut rack up with a full set...
I think Donini likes the blue one, wait that was a Camalot! : )
Get a pair of chockSTONES!
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2016 - 12:41am PT
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Steve I’m delighted that my Christmas card reached you safely!
Please Steve, what do you mean by “post your Allain carabiner holdings over on the Pierre Allain thread if you wouldn't mind” I have already posted a photograph of all my PA carabiners on the second page of the thread PIERRE ALLAIN MTN 62.
And... what about these mysterious prototypes... ;-)
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Dec 19, 2016 - 08:13am PT
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Maestro- I didn't check the Pierre Allain thread before asking you to post there so sorry for the confusion. I bought a few of his locking carabiners and didn't recall seeing that you already had one. Do you have any sort of timeline on the first availability of his locking carabiner?
As for the prototypes mentioned, I wouldn't want to ruin the surprise by letting on just yet.
Cheers and Happy Holidays!
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 19, 2016 - 08:47am PT
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I only have one PA screw-gate locking carabiner at home. In fact, they are not this common. What makes this carabiner so precious to me is that I bought it to Pierre Allain in September 1992 when he very kindly opened his home and knowledge to me for a very personal visit. I went to the mainland from Ajaccio to Nice, and then to Uriages (near Grenoble) specifically to visit the Maestro of all the Maestros. This was absolutely magic. I will look at my Au Vieux Campeur catalogs this evening to try to give you a date for this carabiner.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2016 - 12:13am PT
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The PA screw-gate locking carabiner is mentioned for the first time in the catalog Au Vieux Campeur 1969.
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Dec 20, 2016 - 07:03am PT
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Spinning off a bit from this thread--though, hopefully, not a complete hijack, it would be interesting to know about roughly, who were the first to use 'nuts' for protection in the US/North America and when.
I know that Connecticut climber John Reppy began using nuts at Ragged Mountain and other nearby crags sometime in the early '60s after he was first 'introduced' to this form of protection during a post-doc stay in England. He and Sam Streibert found that nuts often worked better in the frequently inward flaring cracks in the Connecticut 'traprock' than did pitons.
During a similar time-period (1964-5) English climber Jim Swallow spent a year climbing at Devil's Lake while working in the Mayo Clinic and introduced 'nutting' to some of us who climbed with him there. As I recall, Jim's nuts were all filed-out machine nuts of various sizes (no climbing specific manufactured ones)and he was very 'attached' to them. I recall several occasions hanging on (or just hanging) in very uncomfortable places trying to fish out (with a wire Jim provided) some well-jammed nuts while being subjected to a stream of Jim's 'colorful language'. After Jim left, several of us would carry similar nuts as part of our racks but only very rarely actually placed them---and even more rarely trusted them. A couple of years later however, I did order a set of climbing-specific nuts from Joe Brown after seeing them advertised in Summit. I remember receiving and using an assortment of types, including Peck Crackers and, most useful of all, a MOAC. Unfortunately they are all long gone (sorry Stephane).
Since there were a number of UK visitors and emigres climbing in the US and Canada during the '50s and early '60s , including the Calgary Mountain Club, the early Squamish pioneers, and John Turner's group in eastern Canada, I assume that some of them used nuts for protection as well in the years before Robbins, Chouinard et al. spread the gospel of clean climbing. Any stories?
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 20, 2016 - 07:28am PT
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Excellent Alan, what a fascinating story! Thank you very much.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Dec 20, 2016 - 07:36am PT
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I well remember the nut revolution in Yosemite. It coincided with the free climbing revolution. Beginning in around 1970 a new generation of climbers shifted their attention from big walls to free climbing the abundance of cracks still awaitng first ascents. Splitter cracks, surprisingly, on The Cookie, Arch Rock and elsewhere still remained virgin.
Tbe first 5.11 (New Dimensions) was established at Arch Rock and many more soon followed. Pitons were still in evidence but the preponderance of protection placed were nuts which by then had become much more sophisticated.
Piton placements gradually gave way to the "clean climbing" ethic propelled by the obvious pin scar damage that had occurred.
The "nuts only" ethic that became established led to somewhat bold leads. My ascent of "Overhang Overpass" was typical in that it required a substantial runout that was not required once cams were introduced in the late 70's.
Cams propelled standards further as athleticism assumed a greater role with protection becoming less of an issue.
Sport climbing, obviously, allowed athleticism to be the only factor with protection issues no longer a factor.
This propelled climbing standards way beyond where they had been before. A number of climbers took these newly found abilities to trad climbing and free soloing with the mind boggling results that you see today.
It is interesting to see how advances in protection have led to more difficult climbs being established.
Nuts had a very prominent place in that story.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Dec 20, 2016 - 07:48am PT
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I climbed with some nutters at Devil's Lake in '68 but didn't see any actual nuts until '70 or '71?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jun 24, 2017 - 09:17pm PT
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Here is the next step in the progression of the Acorn that I recently got from Paul Sibley.
Clearly the same sort of small nut on a string attachment detail was used.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Jun 25, 2017 - 09:33am PT
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Nutstory bump...
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2017 - 05:03am PT
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Master Grossman, it seems that Paul was very generous with you…
I have already seen such Troll vertical one hole Wedges several times on the Internet (eBay). Unfortunately, I have never managed to get any sample. These nuts seem to be rather confidential. Tony Howard (Troll) does not remember to have ever produce them. They are not mentioned anywhere in the Troll climbing literature.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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I too have seen them before and wondered at the odd design but this is the first time that I have had one in hand. The impracticality of having any sort of knot sit above the nut in the small size certainly must have made them move towards cable as thin perlon doesn't offer much strength.
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2017 - 06:34am PT
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Steve, I feel stupid... Have a look at the photo...
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Its pretty wild that I have not seen this thread being in the recent Supertopo listings. And at the same time that you guys are talking about the Troll Vertical One Hole Wedge, by total coincidence one came to the Karabin Museum in a eBay lot. I never knew it existed. I love how the universe delivers its Blessings!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Having read Meastro Pennequin's thread about the Acorn, I immediately recognized this nut as the next step as I was going through Paul Sibley's gear and setting aside items of interest. I recall seeing one of these somewhere earlier but it all fit together once I understood the early design intent.
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karabin museum
Trad climber
phoenix, az
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Forrest Foxheads use this same design with a wired copperhead jammed into the cord hole.
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ManMountain
Mountain climber
San Diego
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I got out of the protected near vertical rock game in the seventies, gravitated to the mountaineering clan still roped up but ice axes, crampons, ice screws, snow bollards type routes, you know, multiday camping snow covered summits.
So I still have a steamer chest filled with pitons, bongs, blades, early nuts but no cams or new stuff. I'm from the pounder era, and when the early nuts showed up we pounded them in after placement just like a piton. Did the same with copperheads when they showed up. Problem was they were sorta solid but nothing like a piton, pulls from above, wiggling, etc. So I didn't like 'em. Also kinda wrecked the placement for the next ascender if you have to pound out your fixture.
Now I hear people use peckers and beaks as protection. Insane, if you ask me.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Bill keyed off the MOAC taper for his Foxheads while Troll went to cable and a less radical taper which turned out to be the ticket to good crack fitting. Frost and Chouinard perfected the taper and range with their Stoppers in 1971.
"When does a chock become a peg?" -Joe Brown
Peckers and beaks are mostly aid goodies these days. Always have been...
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nutstory
climber
Ajaccio, Corsica, France
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2017 - 05:30am PT
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 28, 2017 - 07:05pm PT
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Looks like both sizes Maestro.
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