Continuos Loop Method of Soloing Explained

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Messages 1 - 63 of total 63 in this topic

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 23, 2010 - 05:37pm PT

[Click to View YouTube Video]

john hansen

climber

Aug 23, 2010 - 07:16pm PT

Ah yes,, when I was new here and asked way too many stupid questions..

Shack

Big Wall climber

Reno NV

Aug 24, 2010 - 09:40pm PT

Thanks for that Mark, I wondered what was meant by continuous loop.
That slippery knott...why so many loops, seems like you would only need half that many?
I haven't tested it, just wondering.

Brian

climber

California

Aug 24, 2010 - 09:56pm PT

Nice system Mark! Thanks.

Brian

justthemaid

climber

Jim Henson's Basement

Aug 24, 2010 - 10:03pm PT

Cool trick ...and also not to be confused with the MDK (Maidy's Death Knot). -My version of the Texas rope trick that is vaguely similar except you are hanging your body off the end and can die. I opt for excess loops on that as well ;)

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 24, 2010 - 10:08pm PT

Shack,

No real reason. On a traversing pitch, the weight of the rope can sometimes pull a few loops out, I figured more loops the better.

Shack

Big Wall climber

Reno NV

Aug 24, 2010 - 10:16pm PT

Yea, I could see that, good thinkin'.

Fuzzywuzzy

climber

suspendedhappynation

Aug 25, 2010 - 12:36am PT

Well done.

Thanks!

edejom

Boulder climber

Butte, America

Aug 25, 2010 - 01:28am PT

Good vid, Mark--I may never solo a big-wall, but your tutorial is educational, none-the-less--thanks for posting it...

deuce4

climber

Hobart, Australia

Aug 25, 2010 - 05:52am PT

Looks very clever. Kudos.

Norwegian

Trad climber

Placerville, California

Aug 25, 2010 - 08:40am PT

thanks for the effort mark.
i will benefit from your experiences.

Delhi Dog

climber

Good Question...

Aug 25, 2010 - 09:15am PT

Cool vid Mark.
Thanks for the effort and the share!
Seems pretty slick.
Cheers,
DD

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 25, 2010 - 10:48am PT

BTW in the vid I say "my" slippery knot technique. I didn't mean to imply that I invented any of it. It's all right out of the PTPP playbook.

Lambone

Ice climber

Ashland, Or

Aug 25, 2010 - 12:32pm PT

So the loop is continuous except for the big knots that attach the ropes to the anchor right?

Why is it called continous?

Solo tagging allways seemed like a bad idea to me. Mike, Ammon, bobo, Aaron all confirmed this. There's enough experience between them that one should take head. Glad it worked for you.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 25, 2010 - 12:40pm PT

I don't know why it's called "continuous". I can't see why having extra gear, food, water and clothing conveniently tucked away in a pack ready at your disposal is a bad idea.

What's bad about it? Do you know what they are worried about, Lambone?

Kalimon

Trad climber

Ridgway, CO

Aug 25, 2010 - 01:23pm PT

Thanks Mark!

I am working on my solo aid technique and really appreciate your instruction . . . seems that there are lots of variables. My first effort last weekend was on the Aid Crack, aka "Morning Glory" (Free Version) at the Ophir Wall. I was using a clove hitch backed up with an overhand knot tie off loop and ended up taking a surprise 15 foot whipper when a wired stopper placement fractured off a chunk of rock on one side of the crack it was placed in. It all happened so quickly and I was caught fairly softly. The clove hitch was difficult to loosen after the impact force had tightened it though. So I have a few questions for your bad self:

1. What is your preferred belay device?

2. How many back up loops do you use?

3. What do you do to prevent the weight of the lead rope from pulling itself back down toward the anchor?

Thanks for your help and willingness to share the techniques you have been using.

Peace.

Greg

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 25, 2010 - 01:34pm PT

Greg,

I used a Gri-gri but if your intended route has a lot of free climbing on it I think I'd use a Silent Partner (I've never used one BTW but I hear that they are better for that)

I used only one back up knot, I'd pull up twenty feet or so of slack, tie a knot there and clip it to my harness. Retie as needed.

A Kleimhiest knot. Give me a day or two and I'll do a vid on this and my anchor set up technique.

Cheers,

GDavis

Social climber

SOL CAL

Aug 25, 2010 - 01:56pm PT

Thanks, great video. Makes sense now that I actually see it... PTPP has some weird brain stuff.

Looking forward to see the selfbelay system you use, probably a lot safer than what I was rocking :(

John Mac

Trad climber

Littleton, CO

Aug 25, 2010 - 02:02pm PT

Not to get confused ... Rather than calling it a demo of the continuous loop method, I think it is a video of continuous loop method with tagging!

I use the continuous loop most of the time when aid soloing but rarely tag. It is still the continuous loop method. Hopefully, that makes sense!

The reason why it is called continuous loop is that the rope goes from the anchor to the climber and back to the anchor so it's kind of like a continuous loop! The climber is never attached directly to the rope, only by a grigri, silent partner, etc.

Gene

Social climber

Aug 25, 2010 - 02:05pm PT

The climber is never attached directly to the rope, only by a grigri, silent partner, etc.

... and backup knot.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 25, 2010 - 02:07pm PT

Pete has gone one step further on a few of his solos and had it set up so that when he raps one rope a haul bag comes up on another rope. Maybe that's the part Lambone doesn't like. It's easily safetied with the slippery knot though.

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Aug 25, 2010 - 03:26pm PT

Excellent video, Mark - thanks for explaining this part of the system so well.

Notes:

What Mark demonstrates is merely one component of the Continuous Loop system, most specifically using the Solo Tag Rack. This is where you hang a rack of gear off a fifi in the middle of the pitch so you don't have to carry all your rack with you, and it allows you to pull it up when you need more gear

Continuous Loop does not have to have the solo tagging system that Mark illustrates in his video. It simply means that there is a continuous loop of Lower Anchor - Lead Rope - Climber belay device - BACKUP KNOT - end of lead rope - top end of haul line - bottom end of haul line - Lower Anchor

EDIT - I see John Mac just explained all that above

Mark's system adds the Solo Tag Rack between the end of the lead and the top of the haul line

My Wall Doctor, Chongo, taught me how to do the solo tagging

Solo tagging is EXTREMELY dangerous because there is always the possibility of taking a whipper, and knocking your tag rack off the fifi, and having another fifty pounds or more of gear falling with you and possibly being caught by you! It is not for the faint of heart, nor the mechanically disinclined. Experts only, practise this one at home first, kiddies or you could end up dead.

So far as I am aware, the series of slippery overhand knots is my invention, designed to [in theory] back up the Solo Tag Rack should the catastrophic fall occur that knocks the fifi off the hook. Since this is untested, at least by me, it may still be Big Wall Theory

I don't tie as many slippery overhand knots as Mark - sheesh.

One big wall master who I believe uses the system is Wally Barker. Many others reject it because they don't like it

The solo tagging is ideal on moderate aid. You don't need to bother on easy aid because you can carry everything you need on your body comfortably. It becomes progressively more dangerous as the pitch gets harder. You don't want to be tagging, for instance, in the middle of an A4 hooking traverse. You want to time your tags, for sure

I used this system on eight solo ascents of El Cap, some of them hard, and I consider it to be the Better Way. But this comes with the caveat that the Better Way is whatever works best for you. Many other big wall soloists, who solo hard routes, do knott use it, as Matt notes above

On really hard sections, you may find yourself building a vertical anchor of consecutive sliding-X knots, until you get a bomber enough mid-pitch anchor you are happy to haul to and leave your rack dangling from

Double tagging is a system whereby as you rap the pitch, you pull up a pig weighing about 50-60% of your body weight "for free". I tried this on my solo of Native Son, but rejected it as overly complex. This is because it requires a separate rope to operate, and quite frankly I was terrified of the thought of a hundred pounds sitting on a hook at the anchor. This was before I invented the slippery overhand backup, which might make the system a bit less terrifying. Double tagging will only work on steep pitches where the piglet won't hang up as you rap down, and would probably be a lot easier with a skinnier cord attached to you. When I tried I had a regular thickness haul line

I'd love to see someone go out and try double tagging with the slippery overhand knot backup, and see if they liked it or not. Hauling a hundred pounds for free is not a benefit to be sneezed at

EDIT for further caveats:

Especially on traversing sections, the full length of the lead rope can come whizzing out of the rope bag, suddenly and catastrophically loading your solo tag rack fifi in the WRONG direction. Hence there is merit to having a very heavy load on it [see below] and also to tying a whole bunch of slippery overhand knots like Mark does, maybe they won't all pull out? It is rather disconcerting to see on the Knifeblade Traverse of Iron Hawk, for instance, all of your lead rope suddenly come whipping out of the bag, and go WUMP on the wrong end of your fifi! [This was my first solo, long before I invented the slippery overhand backup knot in this application]

There is extra risk of dangling rope blowing horizontally and catching on a flake horizontally from you. [Voice of Dirty Harry: "Whatcha gonna do now, PUNK?"]

The other main caveat, and something every soloist who uses this system is certain to do sooner or later, is to mistie his slippery overhand backup knot THRU the carabiner gate, instead of AROUND the carabiner gate. GET IT??? What this means is that you pull up your lead rope to tag, the slippery knot pulls through, but you blew it and opened the gate of the carabiner when you tied it, so when you go to pull the tag rack up, the tag rack jams in the carabiner - DUH

The way I have successfully avoided this mistake is to have dedicated carabiners for this purpose, which are "Mexican lockers" i have made up ahead of time - regular wide-gate crabs whose gates have been duct taped shut. [Always remember to leave a tail, eh?] You clip these dedicated "slippery overhand backup knot crabs" into another crab, and then when you tie the slippery overhand chain, there is NO WAY that you can accidentally put the rope THROUGH the carabiner, rather [because the crab was Mexicanized] you are there obligated to tie the knot AROUND the backup crab. GET IT??

Thanks again for the video, Mark, and most especially for the coffee I just opened! Too funny! I might need to post up some photos.

elcap-pics

Big Wall climber

Crestline CA

Aug 25, 2010 - 04:47pm PT

Nice Mark and thanks pete for the clarifications. I think the so called slippery knot has been around for many years and is often used to compress long electrical chords and such into a more managable and friendly size. However this might be the first solo Climbing use of the thing... in any event.. good stuff guys!!

Captain...or Skully

Big Wall climber

Transporter Room 2

Aug 25, 2010 - 06:42pm PT

Yer "slippery knot" is just a crochet loop.
It still works, though.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Aug 25, 2010 - 07:24pm PT

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 25, 2010 - 08:17pm PT

My system was what Joe shows above except eliminating the haul bag on the left. If you follow it and understand it, it's quite elegant and safe.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Aug 25, 2010 - 08:47pm PT

Mark, that's Pete's drawing of a couple of years ago...

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 25, 2010 - 08:50pm PT

I know that. "The diagram of Pete's that Joe posted above"...

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Aug 25, 2010 - 08:54pm PT

Cool, just didn't want anyone thinking it was mine, I'm not that clever, or complicated...

Prod

Trad climber

Aug 25, 2010 - 09:28pm PT

If you fall couldn't that untie your slippery knot? Then pull the tag bag onto you? Or am I missing something?

Why not just run a light tag line for the tag bag and Haul line?

Prod.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 25, 2010 - 10:23pm PT

Prod,

If you've just "tagged" and the bag is right next to you, your Gri-gri is on the part of the rope that runs past the bag and down to the anchor. If you have a 60 meter rope (197 feet but let's call it 200) and are 100 feet above the anchor there is 100 feet of rope in the rope bag attached to the Tag Bag. The far end of the rope comes out of the rope bag and is tied into a stout piece via the Slippery Knot.

Let's say you were five feet above where your tag bag is hanging and you simply blow it and fall out of your steps. The Gri-gri holds you on the rope running down 100 feet to the anchor, you'll probably fall below the Tag Bag and on the way down you'll pull a bit of the rope out of the rope bag. You certainly won't pull all 100 feet of rope out of it!

And BTW, you really have to kick the sh#t out of a bag hanging on a fifi for it to fall off it's anchor.

Of course, if you rip the piece the Tag Bag is hanging from, then you are in for a world of hurt. On Grape Race./Tribal Rite, I always hung the tag bag from something real solid.

Shack

Big Wall climber

Reno NV

Aug 25, 2010 - 10:53pm PT

and having another fifty pounds or more of gear falling with you

That seems a bit excessive doesn't it? Even for you Pete.
What the heck are you tagging?..wait let me guess...

All the iron, bolt kit, all the big cams, cheater stick, the hammer,
the heads, all the belay set up and hauling rig,
xtra biners, sunscreen, jacket, beer, snacks, half gallon of water and a 2 foot bong.

pretty close? ;)

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Aug 25, 2010 - 11:07pm PT

No bong as I don't smoke, extra wine and canned food. Sometimes a colour TV set and microwave. I've taken thirty-pound pin racks on the wall lots of times on hard nailing routes. Extra water. Easily fifty pounds. I need a bloody hauling device to pull up my solo tag rack - seriously! I used to sometimes haul it off the titanium ring on the aid-tree of my Russian Aider setup, and I bent the circular rings into ovals by hauling my tag rack off of it. Sheesh.

Evidently I invented the slippery overhand knot backup to the fifi after my drawing was revised in 2003.

John Mac

Trad climber

Littleton, CO

Aug 25, 2010 - 11:21pm PT

Gene,

Thanks for pointing out my omission of the back up knot. Very important. Most of the time I actually have two backup knots.

Good discussion.

Cheers

John

Lambone

Ice climber

Ashland, Or

Aug 25, 2010 - 11:44pm PT

What's bad about it? Do you know what they are worried about, Lambone?

Primary concerns were noted as obviously the bag coming unleashed from the anchor point for any number of reasons...primarily in a fall.

Also the tag line getting tangled around your "continuous" loop line slack, or caught on a flake in the wind.

Maybe Mike can elaborate his concerns better. All i remember is each one of them saying when they tried it they ended up screwed halfway up a pitch.

Kevster

Trad climber

Evergreen, CO

Aug 25, 2010 - 11:44pm PT

Great video Mark, I like the slippery knot safety but it does make you have to tag your rack at least 1/2 way through a pitch correct? Once you tag up your extra gear don't you have the issue of the 100 feet of haul line pulling the rest of the haul rope out of the bag?

I like and have used the continuous loop method but it does have some drawbacks. The wind whip is one, which seems to happen at the most unfortunate times. Like when you are too far out to hear the whiz of 200 feet of rope leaving your rope bag and about to shock load your belay loop as you are top stepping off a sketch placement. I suppose if you are tagging then that would only shockload the hook right? Then of course when that monster loop gets caught on the flake 150 feet below you forcing you to rap off some sketchness. Besides that it's great.

Doubletagging...now there is another thinking mans technique....although it always felt like Russian Roulette to me. Of course I was doing it with my full haul bag, linking pitches I had climbed with a partner without trouble. Climbing out the Ear with my haul line stretched tight (loop under my haulbag I found out) whimpering like a schoolgirl. Somehow the saved effort didn't feel like it was worth it at the time.

Maybe this is crazy thinking, but I wonder if some slippery knots in your lead line could act as a shock absorber when climbing right off an anchor. Of course you may be increasing the size of a factor 2 you might be able to take.....

Dammit....your TR and this post have started the solo buzz in my head again, just when I thought I had put it to sleep.

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Aug 25, 2010 - 11:47pm PT

Edit to my post above - three important caveats added! Thanks Matt, Mark and Kevster.

Please read above new caveats and comment.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 26, 2010 - 12:23am PT

The technique has it's problems but it's benefits far out weigh them, IMHO. In 24 pitches of Grape Race/Tribal Rite, the tag bag system screwed up twice. Once because of wind and once the tag line/ tag line extension knot became stuck in the rope bag. Other than that it worked beautifully. I'll continue to use it.

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Aug 26, 2010 - 12:26am PT

Thought for sure you might have made my "classic" mistake of mistying the backup knot, or maybe I warned you in advance, or you practised the thing so damn much. Another benefit of the Mexicanized crab is that there is NO way the rope can somehow autoclip itself as you undo the knot...

Jingy

climber

Somewhere out there

Aug 26, 2010 - 12:57am PT

cool tutorial...

simple and elegant

Thanks Mark

Prod

Trad climber

Aug 27, 2010 - 09:23am PT

If you've just "tagged" and the bag is right next to you, your Gri-gri is on the part of the rope that runs past the bag and down to the anchor. If you have a 60 meter rope (197 feet but let's call it 200) and are 100 feet above the anchor there is 100 feet of rope in the rope bag attached to the Tag Bag. The far end of the rope comes out of the rope bag and is tied into a stout piece via the Slippery Knot.

Got it. Thanks Mark.

Prod.

Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member

Aug 27, 2010 - 05:16pm PT

Great vid, Mark. I have never used this systems so I am psyched to learn about it.

10k

Trad climber

Portland, OR

Sep 2, 2010 - 12:03am PT

thanks!

Lambone

Ice climber

Ashland, Or

Sep 2, 2010 - 12:09am PT

Hey Mark...I'm curious,

Lets say the slack of your lead line got blown in the wind and started zipping out of the rope bag, when it all came out do you think it would be enough of a jolt to untie the slippery knot?

xtrmecat

Big Wall climber

Kalispell, Montanagonia

Sep 2, 2010 - 12:30pm PT

Nice work explaining the system Mark. I have used it without the backup for quit some time now, but only on nonwindy days on non flakey pitches. Works great, but I certainly can see potential for a huge out of hand cluster.

The crochet knott is what I was missing, and see potential there for a better piece of mind for sure. Nice dialog, nice system refinement. Thanks.

Burly Bob

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2010 - 12:44pm PT

Lambone,

I actually watched it do that twice. On the traverse/swings over to the Jardine Corners from the top of Grape Race, the rope just started feeding out of the rope bag but caught on the connection knot to the tag line extender on the edge of the rope bag and didn't go any further. Again, on the severely traversing pitch up to the Dawn Wall, the tag line fed out of the rope bag completely and did catch on the slippery knot. I was using 50 feet of 8 mil to extend the tag line and I would really cinch down on the slippery knot. I never had any problem pulling it out but it did not release with the full weight of the rope on it.
I think if you were real worried about it you could tie a two or three foot length of slippery knot. Cinch it down tight and I don't think it would pull out.

Andy Kirkpatrick thinks it's a pretty good method.

Read his comments about using a Petzl Fifi also.

http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/blog/view/rope_soloing_101_part_4

Thorgon

Big Wall climber

Sedro Woolley, WA

Sep 2, 2010 - 12:55pm PT

Thanks Mark, that is slick! The meeting of the minds PTPP/Chongo in Camp 4 parking lot! That would have been a wild conversation of the rope work possible in the outer limits of space! hahaha
Is that where the method came from, PTPP/Chongo? Anyway, I am going to incorporate it into the mix for sure! I am giving up the clove-hitch method and no longer have to worry about dragging
70M of haul line!!! Yippie!

Thor

Lambone

Ice climber

Ashland, Or

Sep 2, 2010 - 01:06pm PT

Why the 50ft of 8mil tagline extension? Just so you dindnt need to tag more then once?

Also, ever have problems with the tag bag getting stuck...seems like that could force a rappel mid pitch.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2010 - 01:26pm PT

Simply so on even a 180 foot pitch, I'd have to tag only once. The tag bag never got stuck. It wasn't so heavy that I couldn't bounce it around and un-stick it anyway.

I just realized that you guys are thinking of the old style/classic Fifi hook. With that hook you have to tie a little loop to its top and then tape that or tie that to your tag line somehow. You're all worried that if the rope should fall out of the slippery knot that it would pull on the TOP of the fifi and rotate it off its anchor.
If you use a Petzl Fifi, there is a slot that you can clip the tag line into but the slot allows the rope to slide to the BOTTOM of the fifi. If the tag line falls out of the slippery knot, the weight of the rope will hit the fifi and apply its weight to the BOTTOM of it!

Get it?

You'll buy a small mallion to clip to the slot and tie the rope into that. I don't use that little hole at all.

John Mac

Trad climber

Littleton, CO

Sep 2, 2010 - 02:31pm PT

I brought one of these the other day and I have to say that it's a vast improvement on the standard fifi hook. It's the bees knees for tagging.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 2, 2010 - 02:51pm PT

I'm going to do some testing to see how much a bag has to get swinging for the hook to fail.

One technique might be to always hang it on a long sling, that way the sling would also swing. I can't imagine a situation that would cause the bag to bounce straight up and then off?

k-man

Gym climber

SCruz

Sep 2, 2010 - 07:15pm PT

bump for COOL.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2010 - 12:10am PT

Don't forget, soloing a big wall is a thinking persons game. If you don't want to think (and even don't want to think about EVERYTHING) then big wall soloing may not be for you.

I would leave an anchor, get a few feet up and then sit there for five or ten minutes looking at EVERYTHING! The anchor, the haul bags, the haul line rope bag, the tag bag, the tag bag rope line, the slippery knot, EVERYTHING. It's only you up there and you are responsible for you own mistakes.

To solo a wall you should be a creative thinker, at ease with ALL the techniques and able to accept responsibility for your actions.

Burt

Big Wall climber

Las Vegas, Nv

Sep 3, 2010 - 12:51am PT

Hey Mark, thank you for the explaination. Lambone, it is a good system and when the rack is big why haul on your shoulders on a hard pitch? I use a more simple method, I use a 70m haul line, take up about 30-40ft of it tie on a fifi and just put my rack on it. If it falls (never has on me and I have whipped with it on a fifi) it might f you up, but really just a few sets of small cams and some pins aint that much on there. It is nice to not have to have a fully loaded gear sling when the rack for the route calls for big cams, 4 sets of tcu's and pins and you are following a beak crack. So that is why I use it. Like Mark said, soloing is it's own beast do it how you want. Thanks again Mark.

Kurt "Burt" Arend

Lambone

Ice climber

Ashland, Or

Sep 3, 2010 - 01:15am PT

Yeah Mark, that's why it takes twice as long too!!!

Anyway, I think I might give this a try on my next solo, which with two girls under 2yrs old...may be a little while.

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Sep 3, 2010 - 05:14pm PT

^^ Wow, a "convert". ^^ [I could never sell Matt on the idea]

Interesting and excellent refinements to the system [thus sparing me the bother]

Extra loops in the slippery overhand chain, tied tightly, greatly lessen the chance of the knot untying itself when [not if] the rope flies out of the bag on long traverses. This has happened to me plenty, and I didn't really know how to solve the problem. Not that with a tag rack as heavy as mine you'd have to worry about it popping the hook!

Fifi with slot - should the above happen, you don't have to worry about it pulling the top of the fifi - excellent.

Slabby D

Trad climber

B'ham WA

Sep 3, 2010 - 05:34pm PT

Having recently watched (after a 60' traverse) the leadline whip out of the ropebag, followed by the thankfully light tag bag (slippery knot and all) only to be hung up a couple feet later by the knot between lead and haul rope I think trying to tag on traversing pitches is not worth it. Straight up and down no problems.

Question is...how to limit the propensity of ropes to whip out of ropebags on traverses. I no longer use a continuous loop in such situations as the resulting post-whip loop will be almost a full rope length long. Any other thoughts?

Going to get one of the Petzl hook now......

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 3, 2010 - 07:38pm PT

What about a chain of slippery knots, some slack, another chain and so on?

What about slippery knotting the whole goldang rope and stuffing it into a rope bag?

At some point though, you're going to have to tag and the bag is going to come whipping off the anchor.

Luckily, the vast majority of routes don't have such severe traverses so as to make this problem too big of an issue. I mean, what the hell, take everything you'll think you need, take the haul line and suck it up! You're still out soloing, you're still out on a big wall and you're still not at work!

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Sep 3, 2010 - 07:59pm PT

When I soloed the Knifeblade Traverse on Iron Hawk [no KBs, rather horizontal LA's tipped in about a quarter-inch and tied off, which held just fine!] I remember doing three or four tags. You can get a feel for when the rope gets heavy enough that it is about the come flying out of the bag, so I tried to tag just before the happened.

I think you guys are right - take everything you have and try not to tag at all, and maybe a giant long chain might be the way to go.

Soloing is a lot of work - I seem to be retired. I wonder what it would take to get me to go give it another shot?

nutjob

Trad climber

Berkeley, CA

Sep 3, 2010 - 08:27pm PT

Pete, you're one new model of blow-up sheep away from a solo. Unless you have partners you like to share that sort of thing with.

'Pass the Pitons' Pete

Big Wall climber

like Ontario, Canada, eh?

Sep 3, 2010 - 09:02pm PT

Poor Eva. She sprang a pretty good leak last fall. Jesse found her hanging by her clove-hitched neck at the base of Octopussy.

But Max the dog finished her off. I am thinking of getting one of those black inflatable party sheep. Can't remember her name, though. Maybe someone has a link?

[Oh geez, this isn't the posting while drunk post, is it? Um, sorry Mark...]