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| Messages 1 - 38 of total 38 in this topic |
PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 12, 2010 - 02:32pm PT
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So after climbing various routes in Yosemite Valley for the past few weekends, I'm seeing more and more old rap slings on various points on routes. Part of me wants to keep these routes clean and void of any past traffic. On the other hand, if people ever feel the need to bail, they could do so at those points that I have found left gear.
I haven't removed anything yet and want to get some wisdom from the more seasoned climbers before I do so.
So, what are your thoughts?
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The Alpine
Big Wall climber
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May 12, 2010 - 02:36pm PT
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Is that random tat on reeds still there? I've got a solid new policy of carrying a knife specifically for cutting nasty tat off of routes.
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Crillz
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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May 12, 2010 - 02:37pm PT
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I'm not a Yosemite local...
But, in WA, if I were to find old tat that isn't a random bail (might clean it, but depends), I'd replace it if I were to rap from that location (take the old stuff with me and throw away) - preferebly replace with some dark color.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 12, 2010 - 02:40pm PT
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To be specific, it was about 3 or 4 old slings on the "horn" on P4? of the Nutcracker. The more I climb in Yosemite, this being my first season, I'm finding many trees with slings on them. The routes being the most popular ones.
Where is the line? If it's new (relatively) leave it? And cut it off if it's old?
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The Alpine
Big Wall climber
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May 12, 2010 - 02:41pm PT
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If its in the middle of a pitch - chop it.
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 12, 2010 - 02:43pm PT
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I think it is bad practice when people become accustomed to knowing there is gear at certain points on a route and then saying, "well we can leave the webbing in the car." Then finding themselves in a bad predicament when they need to bail and the gear they planned to be there is no longer there.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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May 12, 2010 - 02:55pm PT
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I carry a knife with me and cut off everything I have time to.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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May 12, 2010 - 03:16pm PT
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No need to ask, just cut and replace.
Or Remove if it is an obvious bail anchor.
I always have a knife, rap rings/quick links, and 1/2" tubular in some fashion.
Good on you for taking the time to make the anchor situation better for all.
Mucci
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apogee
climber
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May 12, 2010 - 03:28pm PT
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This is a small collection of the tat & bail Krap® left behind on my local crag over the past few years:
I try to clean anything that is obviously unnecessary anytime I encounter it- it's good for one's mountain karma. For some odd reason, I've been saving it.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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May 12, 2010 - 03:51pm PT
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I don't think I'd chop EVERYTHING I came across, but definitely worn 'Death Slings' that are faded and falling apart. Especially that rainbow sling in apogee's pic, that woulda been gone in a heartbeat. Not because it's gay, but because it's ghey! Try to use natural colors, man!
That's just me though.
EDIT: Apogee, that BD quickdraw looks like one of mine, can I have it back?
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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May 12, 2010 - 04:03pm PT
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Clean it but be careful that it's not an actual rap anchor. A lot of trees are rap anchors for routes.
kev
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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May 12, 2010 - 04:13pm PT
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Kev, I've noticed at many Valley belays.A bunch of slings around a tree! Shouldn't you just sling the tree, clip it and belay off that. When it comes time to rap, clean your slings (after you're secured on rap), and ONLY use the tree to rap. Do tell.
That tree at the top of pitch 1 of Sloth Wall is a good example. Why have 4 'permanent' slings around it with a ring? Just rap off the tree! Eco damage to the poor tree? The slings don't hurt it?
Top of Oak Tree Flake and Grant's is the same...I'm curious.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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May 12, 2010 - 04:18pm PT
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I suppose pulling rap lines around the tree will cut into the tree, the slings are just sitting there statically...??
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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May 12, 2010 - 04:19pm PT
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Around the time I first started climbing in the Valley (in 1968 or 1969), someone was killed descending Goodrich Pinnacle when an anchor sling broke. Since then, I've always taken a knife and extra sling (usually granite grey, although I was recently forced to leave one dyed bright orange -- fortunately around a chockstone deep in a crack, but I still want to go back and replace it with a more appropriate color).
My basic rule is to remove all bail-generated sling from mid-pitch or not on an established rap route. I'll illustrate why with this example: When I first did Marginal on the Grack, the first bolt was full of junky sling, obviously used by more than one leader to bail. It clogged the hanger so I couldn't clip in, and the sling was too old to rely on. Cutting that was no picnic, but then, I guess, neither was placing the bolt in the first place, so I shouldn't gripe too much!
Anyway, I applaud anyone thoughtful enough to ask that question. I hope you enjoy your climbing, and i look forward to meeting you around the Valley or here in town.
John
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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May 12, 2010 - 04:33pm PT
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Granite grey slings.... So jealous! REI refuses to carry anything but bright red (in the 9/16") and other terrible colors. I buy more neutral colors when I'm in other shops and I see it, but I'm currently out!
I clean sometimes and not others. Bluering, you nailed it. Don't pull your rope off a tree. It wears the bark down and damages it more than a sling.
Josh
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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May 12, 2010 - 04:37pm PT
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Nomad carries grey 1" webbing, perfect for replacing old tat.
That would require you to drive past Return Everything Immediately and head on up here and bug me :D
I'll see if I can get some thinner stuff today...
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland: what's not to love?
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May 12, 2010 - 04:39pm PT
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I carry a tiny, fold-away, serrated knife that I bought for $1.49 at the gas station up the road from Sugarloaf at the bottom of my chalkbag. Handy, always there, not in the way, cheap, not heavy...
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apogee
climber
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May 12, 2010 - 04:41pm PT
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"REI refuses to carry anything but bright red (in the 9/16") and other terrible colors."
Yet another fantastic reason to avoid the big-box out-of-touch evil empire, and support your local outdoor retailer.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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May 12, 2010 - 04:53pm PT
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I make it a habit to have some tied slings (and a partner with a knife, since I loose every knife I get) and rap rings to replace stations that are old.
Certainly this is not just an issue for popular routes, but also in obscure areas... at first you wonder why everyone used white slings, BITD.
Just adding slingage without cleaning up old slingage is definitely a problem, as the slings grow to the point that there is abrasion on the "outside" slings of the group through rings where pulling ropes can burn the newer slings... this is a bad thing for those following.
Also, there was a thread here a while back, make sure you check the entire length of slings you're planning on using, visual and tactile, to confirm that the sling is in good shape and not rodent gnawed, etc... take your time and make sure it's ok before your life depends on it.
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Anastasia
Mountain climber
hanging from a crimp and crying for my mama.
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May 12, 2010 - 04:54pm PT
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Well, a small confession needs to be given... I am so bad at following routes that I am scared of camouflage anchors and slings.
I love the idea of keeping the wall looking pure but in my world, I'll be off leading into a blank wall. That is why I am going to say that sometimes seeing things isn't a bad thing.
Just my two cents.
AFS
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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May 12, 2010 - 05:10pm PT
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Ana, that's not a problem once your leader finds the anchors. And in many places in the Valley you can even see "camo'ed" anchors because they stick out when you get close, in addition to the ring(s) hangings from them.
Maybe this is another project. Replacing old colored tat at tree-belays with granite grey slings. Certainly it is mail order-able! We don't have to drive down to score it off Greg. GDavis, you could always help out by using employee discounts to offset shipping costs us, no?
Sh#t, Nomads would prolly do it voluntarily if they knew the cause.
WTF happened to kev??? I'd like his insights to this.
People looking for good belays don't look for bright yellow/rainbow slings, they look for trees and horns and cracks. It's intuitive.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 12, 2010 - 05:16pm PT
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On routes of any length, I always carry a folding knife and a few knotted slings (subdued colours), and perhaps a rap ring or two. When rappelling, I try to remove or tidy up old slings.
Sometimes apparently redundant rappel slings have a purpose. The slings on Nutcracker may be from parties with a single rope bailing during thunderstorms.
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slobmonster
Trad climber
OAK (nee NH)
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May 12, 2010 - 05:27pm PT
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Chop all, leave one freshie, and then only if it's needed.
My small pack (in photo) is already full of tat, and I am filling it.
Tat is trash.
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Fish_Products
Big Wall climber
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May 12, 2010 - 05:29pm PT
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Sterling makes an 11/16" tubular that is silver/gray and for sure Nomad should be carrying this, along with JT Tan and Red Rocks Red, both available from Bluewater.
Wanna be a tri-area do gooder? Paypal me $5.00 along with your address and I'll send you a Yos gray, JT Tan, and a Red Rocks Red hunk of 1" tubular webbing that you can knot up yourself and leave less of a trace. Sling material will be about 5' long, which gives an over the shoulder sling when knotted. 3 slings, 5 clams, includes shipping. Paypal to "paypal (at) fishproducts.com". No other methods accepted. Limited to the first 40,000 do gooders or until I retire on this lucrative scam (or run out of materials). Want all Yos instead? yeah... we can do that.
http://www.FishProducts.com
http://www.FishProductsBlog.Blogspot.com
EDIT: click on our Blog and there should be a PayPal button ready to go for this gig on the Leave no Trace entry.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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May 12, 2010 - 05:40pm PT
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That's just badass, FISH....hold on...I'm sending...
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Anastasia
Mountain climber
hanging from a crimp and crying for my mama.
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May 12, 2010 - 05:50pm PT
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Thanks Fish, you are a hero!
:)AFS
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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May 12, 2010 - 05:56pm PT
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CUT ANYTHING THATS NOT DATED. RAP OF A TREE - WTF - GOD GAVE YOU A BRAIN I THINK. THINK ABOUT YOUR ROPE. KNOW WONDER I BARK AT CLIMBERS & THE MOON. THINK SAFETY FIRST. I DON'T PUT BARK ON ROPE IF I CAN HELP IT.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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May 12, 2010 - 06:06pm PT
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Yeah but you guys are advocating cutting ALL slingage, no?
That makes no sense, and is my point!!!!! You need some slings in place, right? Maybe even triples because you don't know the status when you get there.
Pick One!!!! Rap off the tree of leave some slings to save the tree's bark!
Everybody so far so seems to advocate chopping all "tat". That would potentially leave me to rap off bark, no? Or leave my own gear to be chopped by someone else.
What is more logical and 'sustainable'? You chop my gear I gotta go buy more or the next schmuck has to leave gear to protect the 'sensitive bark'. But he just has to buy more dyneema.
F*#k you people drive me nuts sometimes....
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Nate D
climber
San Francisco
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May 12, 2010 - 06:14pm PT
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save a tree (and/or the ugly tat cycle), drill two bolts. :)
Not my style, but there are advocates for this on high traffic routes, no?
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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May 12, 2010 - 06:17pm PT
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I just cut off the oldest/most worn/most weathered from regular rappel stations, leaving the two or three best ones, and then add a new one. As BR says, you don't usually have to remove all of what's there.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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May 12, 2010 - 06:19pm PT
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I'm not opposed that, Nate, but some would say you're doing "much more damage to the natural environment".
Me, I say just sling the f*#king trees, put a ring(s) on the rig, and call it done.
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The Alpine
Big Wall climber
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May 12, 2010 - 06:28pm PT
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Not all tat is on trees. Not all trees with tat are rap routes or belays. If its an established rap route or belay - of course leave slings on trees(cleaning and replacing as necessary).
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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May 12, 2010 - 06:39pm PT
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the alpine got it -- bluering just think - date your slings & bring your own....
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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May 12, 2010 - 06:45pm PT
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the alpine got it -- bluering just think - date your slings & bring your own....
I know this. Which is why I caution Paul about chopping ALL stuff he comes across. Some of it is legit and necessary. Some needs work, but not necessarily complete removal.
Each occasion requires a decision. When in doubt, leave it or clean it up a bit.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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May 12, 2010 - 06:50pm PT
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Always rap on at least one new sling if you want to always come home. I like three.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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May 12, 2010 - 06:52pm PT
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Always rap on at least one new sling if you want to always come home. I like three.
Not a bad rule, but you have to evaluate each anchor and and make the call. I tend to agree though, overall.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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May 12, 2010 - 07:22pm PT
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Apogee, is that shoe, tat?
i'm gonna get in on some of that fish slingage.
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| Messages 1 - 38 of total 38 in this topic |
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