Discussion Topic |
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 6, 2010 - 09:13pm PT
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I know everybody knows this story.
Apparently the US flag takes a backseat on 'Cinco de Mayo'.
Makes me wanna say, "F*#k you Mexicans". Where is your loyalty? To the US or to Mexico? Why are you so offended by students wearing USA flags on that day?
Does Mexico as a country even celebrate that holiday? Isn't Sept the actual victory month?
Why is wearing a American flag NOT PROTECTED BY THE 1ST AMEND. BY THE SILLY_ASS ACLU???
Of course, all you fools who give money to the ACLU won't reply....
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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It IS legal, and protected by the first Amendment, to "wear" the American flag as an image.
Why would you believe this would not be legal?
In fact, the ACLU does support the right of Americans to wear the flag image.
That is called a civil right of free speech, which the ACLU supports.
However, it IS against the law to wear the flag as a garment, like a shirt
edit: from wiki
Some people might consider that inappropriate, but there are no laws against it.
Technically that is not true. Section 8D reads that "The flag should never be used as wearing apparel." Legally there are fines and it is punishable under federal law.
A flag is defined, by law, as: "Anything "by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag."
Cars painted as flags are therefore illegal also. There are also rules of how a flag should be placed. The union side must face northward, is one example. Flying a flag upside down is still under appeal and may be legal. The case is being tried in Cost Mes, CA.
The laws relating to the flag of the United States of America are found in detail in the United States Code. Title 4, Chapter 1 pertains to the flag; Title 18, Chapter 33, Section 700 regards criminal penalties for flag desecration; Title 36, Chapter 3 pertains to patriotic customs and observances. These laws were supplemented by Executive Orders and Presidential Proclamations.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Dingus,
from the looks of your avatar you've lost some weight, no?
edit:
I call BS on this thread Blue. Sorry man.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 6, 2010 - 09:32pm PT
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So, since they lost the territory in a war, they should get it back?
We even compensated them for the land WE WON WHEN WE WERE ATTACKED!!!
Are they gonna pay that back?
Do we want Southwest America to look like Mexico?
The only reason they want it is because their State is broken and they want to leech of us. Which is o.k., just f*#king respect our SOVEREIGNTY!!!!
To me, there's no argument here. It plain and simple....
Maybe Dingus could elaborate on why we allow foreign worship and disallow the display of OUR F*#KING FLAG!!!!
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mr Milktoast writes:
"That flag flew here in CA way before the U.S. flag showed up. WAY... before."
At the most, twenty-five years before. Not all that long.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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all in all, its just a flag.
The real issue is that no one gives a sh!t about this country anymore.
Those people who put the mexican/british/vatican (whatever) flag over the flag that defends them are simple, idiotic folk. The first ones to abuse the wonderful things this country has to offer and the last to do anything good for it.
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Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
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Blue your low tolerance for all things not American (or white, or Christian, or Repub, or different...) is showing again...
Despite what you think, the whole world does not revolve around the USA.
I could give a sh*te if the Mexicans or American citizens with Mexican heritage want to display that flag...
Sorry dude but you sound like a bully in the playground.
Cheers,
DD
edit...above, below...sheesh
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okie
Trad climber
San Leandro, Ca
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Saw a mexican flag draped over the tailgate of a truck going down the freeway on Cinco de Mayo. In the center of the flag, instead of that eagle or whatever was the Virgin Mary...
As long as Americans have the same great opportunities around the world as we extend to the fellahin peoples of the world here I'm all for tearing down the fences...
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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I celebrate cinco de drinko, i get f*#ked up like youre supposed to. The holiday is great, I get to get so smashed that I can't see straight and this is the legacy of that great country.
lets celebrate it next year, we can torture some bulls and have drug lords running our cities too, itll be a great tribute to that amazing country.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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The Vice Principal should be fired.
He obviously has a bigoted opinion of Mexican-American students, believing that they wouldn't be able to control themselves at the sight of an American flag on a shirt.
Fire him, and replace him with someone not as biased.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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This was just some school thing. Why does every little decision, right or wrong, have to be exploded into the internets and over analyzed? I'm sure all the blowhards on those ghastly "news" programs are going nuts over this.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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"Well gdavis dude, what have you done for America lately my friend?"
I vote and pay taxes, pay for car insurance and register my vehicle. I pay taxes and support causes American - like personal responsibility.
I've never been on the dole, never been arrested, and by the way, I've built homes in Tijuana.
So what have YOU done?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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nice picture of some heroes DMT - you should ask them how they feel about things.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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They would probably understand that being in the army is a lot like being in high school. The commander/principal can make up rules to ensure safety, reduce tensions, whatever. It may suck or offend someone, but that's the commander/principal's call.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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A report from the Pew Research Center in 2008 projects that by 2050, non-Hispanic Whites will make up 47% of the population, down from 67% projected in 2005.[41] Non-Hispanic whites made up 85% of the population in 1960.[42] It foresees the Hispanic population rising from 14% in 2005 to 29% by 2050.[43] The proportion of Asian Americans would almost double by 2050. Overall, the population of the U.S. was due to rise from 296 million in 2005 to 438 million, with 82% of the increase due to immigration.[44]
Better get used to it, bigots.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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What difference does it make what race someone is?
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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We even compensated them for the land WE WON WHEN WE WERE ATTACKED!!!
?????
hey bluering, how come no outrage over this flag:
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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Veterans, eh?
"According to a spokesperson from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, approximately 45,000 noncitizen immigrants are now serving in the U.S. military, and hundreds of thousands have served throughout the country’s history."
More than most of you whiny pussies have ever done for this country.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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I work with a woman who's family has owned and ran a ranch in Arizona on the Mexican border for about 200 years.
So now she has to carry a passport when she goes and visits her mom and pop?
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Alexey
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Actually bluering in real life much better , polite, and not bigot at all as he is here on line on ST.
I met him last weekend at Arch rock entrance - and instantly recognize him - (his photos all over ST.)
Few month ago he almost expel me from this country back to Russia - because presumably I have no ideas what is freedom of speech .
So I approached and after confirmation that he is a climber - I asked him with heavy Russian accent showing up to Arch Rock - "would you recommend any 5.5 - 5.6 route over there?" I was expecting to get a lot of sh#t knowing his virtual personalty - but surprisingly he was very polite, helpful and offered me to check his ST book. So I lost any interest in the show - and retreat .
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Gary, that's not true at all.
The fact is that Senate Bill 1070 merely makes it a state crime to be in the United States illegally. It also explicitly prohibits law enforcement officials from solely considering race, color, or national origin in determining immigration status.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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She doesn't have to carry it by law, she carries it so she can easily prove she's a citizen if she's stopped. What the law says and how it's executed on the street can be two different things.
I'm assuming she is a US citizen of Hispanic descent. Let's say she is with a group of illegal immigrants for whatever reason. Then she is suspected as well.
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Dingus,
That flag never flew over California, one much like it but not that one.
Also if you talk to Mexican of the middle class in Mexico, at least the ones I know, they think Cinco de Mayo is just a day for the peons to get drunk in the USA. Sept. 14 is their day. In my town yesterday was just another day that gangsters shoot each other. Two this week.
Bluring,
Do you get mad whenever am Irish flag flies on ST. Paddy's day. A Swedish flag, a German flag and an Italian, and Pakistani flag have all flown over my home town on different days of the year. And every dumb big tired puckup truck has a confederate sticker on its bumper. Does that piss you off. Get over it. Why do you care, go eat at a taco truck and do not worry about it. Besides if they all went home I would have to teach regular classes and those students are not as respectful as the immigrants.
Cheers
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Oh, she's a Mexican citizen visiting relatives in the U.S.?
Then she should absolutely be required to carry her passport with her at all times to prove she's in the U.S. legally.
I have to carry one when I go to Canada, Mexico or pretty much anywhere else. No, I don't have it with me at all times. But those areas don't have the same problems as Arizona either.
I think this bill is merely a roose to light a fire under the ass of our current administration. Someone NEEDS to do something. Since they won't, we will sorta thing.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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when the ring gets baked he's mother teresa,
then, every dimple in the sandstone turns vaginal.
bluey, ........sometimes complex, ......sometimes not.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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heck, back in the 60's we Burning the frickin flag.
using the draft cards for kindling.
ol tricky dick, man. everybody hated that guy.
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nutjob
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Sounds like Bluering has blue balls...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 6, 2010 - 10:50pm PT
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Blue your low tolerance for all things not American (or white, or Christian, or Repub, or different...) is showing again...
Despite what you think, the whole world does not revolve around the USA.
Yes, I do have low tolerance for xxx-Americans not respectin';;'';;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;[''[ jmm n n zzxxxxxxxxxxxxl;m,lm,m,mmm,,mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
sorr, my son is in keyboard control.....
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 6, 2010 - 10:55pm PT
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Wher is the f*#king ACLU in this???? Some Americans wore American flags and were told to hide them.
What the F*#K!!!!!!
Where is our precious ACLU?????
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Schools are not a good example for free speech issues.
While an adult can say just about anything beyond a criminal threat, fire in a theater, or anything libelous unless a person is a public figure, kids at school don't have the same rights. They do have more than you might think, but anything that a teacher/admin can construe as being disruptive can be acted on.
So a kid gets sent home for something? That's probably why they wore what they wore or said what they said in the first place. Kids like to test stuff.
Let them wave a Mexican flag for crying out loud. My grandma always flew the flag of Finland at their home, though if there was an American Flag the Finnish flag would be below it.
Also if we don't like Mexican drug lords tell your friends to stop snorting coke and grow their own weed.
Supply and demand- it's pretty simple.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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i hire mexicans to grow my weed.
more bang for the buck.
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nutjob
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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On flag day in the late 1980s, they handed out little American flags for us all to carry. One of my schoolmates was expelled (weeks before 8th grade graduation) because he blew his nose on his little flag during the ceremony.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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man, all this rain, watch out for poison oak.
when does fire season start? lots of brush, eh?
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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I thought it used to be that wearing clothing that looks to be cut from a US Flag was considered disrespectful to the flag. Same as flying it in the rain. Or letting it touch the ground while folding it. And we certainly learned how to fold it correctly.
Anyone else remember that?
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Chinchen
climber
Anacortes, wa
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These kind of vitriolic threads have no place on our climbing forum. Take a hike, go climbing, look around at the beauty in everyone. I have zero respect for the OP.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Dr. Sprock - as long as they grow your weed with green cards or citizenship- no problem right?
Jim Brennan- funny you should mention tile setters. I came to that same conclusion years ago, give fresh Mexican dude a carpentry assignment is high risk, but sub out the tile to a Mexican crew and they do a bang up job. It's not a matter of hard work or anything, I think it's what you know, and those guys know tile.
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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skipt,
Not this year but a couple of years back the "cowboys" farmers in FFA wore US flags, no problems on this day. This year not one, read not one, Mexican out of my 27 Mexican students, not Mexican American said anything about Cinco de Mayo. The only thing that was said that it was my mom's birthday. I did not even hear gunshots in town, the shooting was on the other side of town. Only one or two wore green white and red ribbons in their hair.
Dingus ask your middle class friends, I am curious to what they say about it. Most of my Students come from ranches and the lower working class.
Cheers
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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bluering said Why is wearing a American flag NOT PROTECTED BY THE 1ST AMEND. BY THE SILLY_ASS ACLU???
Man it's just really tough for me to decide if you keep posting dumber and dumber things or if you plateaud at a level of stupidity a long time ago and I just still haven't come to terms with how dumb that actually is.
I can promise you that if you got somehow indicted for wearing the American flag that the ACLU would be there to battle for you.
On the up side I got some really cheap drinks tonight care of Cinco del Mayo. Viva Mexico. What could be more American than that?
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Jingy
Social climber
Nowhere
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why are the ignorant still claiming they've been somehow shorted... ?
who 'f'ing cares...
get over it, there are bigger fish to fry, starting with BP, then Halliburton, then we can go after butch chinney and the rest of them, like you've suggested....
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Have you seen the photos of the four kids in their shirts?
Nothing disrespectful or inciting about them at all.
The vice principal should, (and probably will) get canned.
The Mexican students that were threatening violence today will skate.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 12:19am PT
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These kind of vitriolic threads have no place on our climbing forum. Take a hike, go climbing, look around at the beauty in everyone. I have zero respect for the OP.
Then why not f*#k off and ignore this thread???
On a side note I have a TR upcoming, i've been assemblimg it slowly, so maybe that will sooth your vagina! Stay tuned!
EDIT: i just got back back from picking up my guidebook from some cool chix I lent it to last weekend, stopped at the hardware store for quicklinks, and now I'm back...
Wow! cool thread. Who started it?
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Mexican students at the school demonstrated today because they didn't think the kids with the American tee shirts were "punished" severely enough.
It spilled out onto the streets and law enforcement responded.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Oh, I wasn't talking about anyone in particular TGT. Just thinking about the past in regards to the US flag. Does anyone else remember that? Or did I get socialized in a weird fashion regarding the flag?
I don't know the story (been at the university until an hour ago), but from what I've read here, it sounds like the authority was a dope. And that belief has nothing to do with rituals of the past described above. The principal did a pretty foolish maneuver and I'm sure he'll be chastised for it.
I certainly have no issue with folks wearing the US or any other flag. I proudly own and wear a US Flag bikini.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 12:23am PT
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t*r, don't even get me started with you....you're a child.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 12:29am PT
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t*r, really? Explain. Explain your hardships.....
And how do they compare to others hardships who don't bitch about it!!!!
It's life, girl! Live it! Quit listening to commies that say life should be nice and easy and comfortable.
F*#k! Life ain't easy!!!!! Ain't supposed to be!
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Go back far enough, I'm sure there were kids in schools teasing other kids about being a Paddy or a Wop.
And maybe some of those kids on both sides of the equation got into trouble.
It's not cool either way.
As for Latinos, or even more specifically, illegal immigrants not helping this country:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/04/23/60II/main550779.shtml
That illegal immigrant died as a US marine in Iraq. More than I can say for Cheney. Or many of the folks supporting the law in Arizona.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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How come the Irish never object to American flags on St Paddy's day and indeed proudly carry them in their otherwise lime green parades?
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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Holy guacamole!
Hecho en Mexico.
Mi pelo es blanco
pero
mi corazon es
Mexicano.
Chupa mi verga, Azuley.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 12:32am PT
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I certainly have no issue with folks wearing the US or any other flag. I proudly own and wear a US Flag bikini.
With permission from your hubby, I'd like to see Crimpie in a USA bikini,,,,
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dktem
Trad climber
Temecula
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If you filter out the hate and hysteria from bluering's post, there actually may be a point in there.
This story did bug me. The way the situation was handled suggested that some think, on certain occasions, the American flag is supposed to take a back seat to another country's flag. That's bullsh#t.
This is the USA. If you don't like the way something works here, you can change it. You can change anything within the framework of the democratic process protected by our government. It's a beautiful thing, and that's why we should treat it with reverence.
I remember back when Propisition 187 was on the ballot. People were protesting by waving the Mexican flag in the streets. They wanted to influence an American law by showing a symbol of their loyalty to another country. WTF?
How uncool would it be for me to go to Mexico and wave the American flag in an attempt to influence their legislation? Why do we tolerate it here?
And no, I'm not talking about race, I'm talking about nationality. There's a difference.
If you are proud of your native country or that of your ancestors, go ahead and display a foreign flag. But be sure that you don't fly it higher than the the American flag that's next to it.
BTW: I have served in the military, in a combat unit (Airborne), during a time of war. I did not see combat because I was never ordered to a combat zone. My uniform and equipment was not as cool as the guys pictured (we didn't have camelbacks, knee pads, and bad-ass-looking M4s.) And none of that means sh#t with regards to this or any issue. GDavis described the requirements nicely: Every law-abiding American has the right to participate in the democratic process, veteran or not.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 12:34am PT
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f*ck you, i don't need to post a resume of my life experience
Yes you do, if you want to make a point!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 12:38am PT
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If you filter out the hate and hysteria from bluering's post, there actually may be a point in there.
Ya know, my initial reaction is to say, "F*#k you". Funny how you justify disparaging me, but I'm used to it.
It's funny how people react to this stuff.
But I'm a racist, so I shouldn't comment.....
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dktem
Trad climber
Temecula
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blue, what I'm saying is that I agree with your basic point.
It's just that the presentation is a bit over the top...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 12:46am PT
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dktem, my man, I will not let as#@&%es tell me how to frame an argumement. We may agree on this point, but.....
EDIT: I'm disappaointed that people feel it unlikely to call out illegals!
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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piel... mi piel es blanco.
lo siento.
gracias, adios.
paz
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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I imagine bluering as a nail. A long skinny brad. Every letter of every one of bluering's posts is a weak, limp-wristed tap--a tap driving the idiot bluering-nail into the body, flesh, viscera, bone, etc. of this great country.
Every unthinking idiot like bluering, and there are so many, is each like a nail driven into the body politic.
But the ideas--the constitution, and the writings of our more enlightened leaders, will be added to the Greco-Roman and British influences for a better government in some other land dozens, hundreds or thousands of years after the loud, tea-stained, knee-jerk idiots ruin what we have.
Bluering doesn't deserve such a great country as the USA.
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Anastasia
Mountain climber
hanging from a crimp and crying for my mama.
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The history and significance of Cinco De Mayo (5th of May), is that it commemorates the victory of the Mexican Militia over the French Army. It was the last time a foreign power from over seas entered the Americas. It's more about the Monroe doctrine than anything else. That is why it is a U.S. holiday.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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TGT said - The Mexican students that were threatening violence today will skate.
Always keeping whitey down man. Such a racist country.
bluering said - And how do they compare to others hardships who don't bitch about it!!!!
So I'm guessing you're in the "bitch about it all the time" category since it seems like it's the majority of your posting content (except for the parts about LSD).
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Oh, she's a Mexican citizen visiting relatives in the U.S.?
No, she's a US citizen visiting relatives in Arizona. Her family has owned that ranch since before Arizona was a gleam in its daddy's eye. If she's stopped for DWB, will she need to have her passport on her? How will she prove she's a citizen? How can I prove I'm a citizen? I can't. I have a birth certificate, but apparently, that doesn't prove it.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Some dumb f*#ks doubt Obama's citizenship--in such an environment, how am I supposed to prove mine.
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nita
Social climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
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...Bluey,....Hijole!.... Thanks for reminding me to renew my ACLU membership...
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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8 beers or 14 today, blue?
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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That is why it is a U.S. holiday.
it's not a holiday. Nobody gets it off. It's a recognized day and that's about it. And the funny thing is we (USA) celebrate it about 100x more than people in Mexico.
It's another reason to drink (and it seems like Blue hasn't stopped since yesterday).
Edit: though to be fair I've taken only a short hiatus since yesterday - a coffee break ;-)
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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"f*ck you, i've been through more sh*t than most people have been through in a lifetime."
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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It is BS that people that are against illegal immigration are racist. Sorry, but there is only so much money to go around. Mexico's corrupt government has failed their population. Does that mean the USA has to pick up the slack to the detriment of legal residents?
The Mexican government needs to step up to the plate. Not me. It is too bad these people are suffering, but my check book is barely enough for me, let alone bailing out the rest of the world.
Yeah, you guys sitting in a nice house and comfy pension plans have money to spare. I do not. Oh, by the way, do any of you see we are the only country dealing with this? Try being in Mexico without documentation. Or any other nation.
Hell, if you work for the government and have guaranteed employment and benefits, this is no big deal. But if you work in the private sector this is an incredible tax burden.
BURP!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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I'm slowly amassing an army of Gifs
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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The Mexican government needs to step up to the plate. Not me. It is too bad these people are suffering, but my check book is barely enough for me, let alone bailing out the rest of the world.
Yeah man. It's the Mexican government's job to keep people from coming into our country. Why can't they control their people better.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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No, she's a US citizen visiting relatives in Arizona. Her family has owned that ranch since before Arizona was a gleam in its daddy's eye. If she's stopped for DWB, will she need to have her passport on her? How will she prove she's a citizen? How can I prove I'm a citizen? I can't. I have a birth certificate, but apparently, that doesn't prove it.
She won't need to prove her citizenship, neither will you or I or anyone for that matter. This bill is targeting known illegals in the state of Arizona and allowing Arizona to do something about it. Nobody is going to detain you and demand that you prove your citizenship. The state would get sued. But if you're a known illegal alien living in Arizona or are caught crossing the border, you better come up with a valid passport pronto. The only people who are going to be directly questioned and effected by this new law are those picked up attempting to cross the border and those who are arrested for other crimes and found to be in this country illegally.
Hooray for Arizona to be the first to finally grow some balls and do something about this serious threat to this country. Something needs to be done and whatever it is, guaranteed someones not going to like it.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Johntp, I believe you are upset about the fact that some people are against the new law in Arizona. I would like to try and answer some of what you wrote.
It is BS that people that are against illegal immigration are racist. Sorry, but there is only so much money to go around. Mexico's corrupt government has failed their population. Does that mean the USA has to pick up the slack to the detriment of legal residents?
You are correct. The US of A shouldn't have to pick of the slack from the failures of other countries. No one who is against the new law in Arizona thinks we should. We aren't against stemming the tide of illegal immigration, we are against a new law that will likely lead to harassment of legal US of A American citizens. Maybe its not possible to avoid this harassment, I don't know. I just know that making an effort to make things fair for everyone is important. US citizens of hispanic decent shouldn't have to carry passports to prove their citizenship.
The Mexican government needs to step up to the plate. Not me. It is too bad these people are suffering, but my check book is barely enough for me, let alone bailing out the rest of the world.
True enough. Are you aware that one of the real reasons that the politicians have done little to stem the tide of illegal immigration is that illegal immigrants who work low paying jobs actually cost the US of A less in taxes then good ol Americans working those same low paying jobs do?
Do you know why? Its because while an American would be able to access all the benefits he or she would accrue as a tax paying citizen. An illegal immigrant can't. They can't get social security. So in affect, they are paying for your social security. If you are willing to give that up, then maybe closing the borders completely would be good.
Yeah, you guys sitting in a nice house and comfy pension plans have money to spare. I do not. Oh, by the way, do any of you see we are the only country dealing with this? Try being in Mexico without documentation. Or any other nation.
Once again, no one is against non US citizens carrying ID papers saying they are allowed to be in the US. What we are against is a law that would in affect require proud American citizens of hispanic decent to always be in possession of a passport to be able to prove to any officer of the law that they are in the country legally.
Hell, if you work for the government and have guaranteed employment and benefits, this is no big deal. But if you work in the private sector this is an incredible tax burden.
Once again, this is not true. Our current system of allowing illegals to work in America actually helps support our current system. It costs more to have an American in a low paying job, then it does an illegal. Not because illegals are paid less, but because of the fact that they can not access all of the benefits that a true American citizen can.
To reiterate. I, along with others who are against this new law in Arizona, are not against stemming the tide of illegal immigration. We just don't think this new law is the correct way to go about it. If you want to require everyone in America to prove they are here legally, then I might be okay with that. But this law doesn't do that. It is biased against a section of the US citizens. Specifically those of hispanic ancestry.
Yes I do understand that it doesn't require them to carry a passport. But if they just look like an illegal alien, and perhaps roll through a stop sign, or cross a double yellow line, when they are stopped for that offense, the officer can now make them prove they are American citizens if he suspects they are illegal aliens, or even if he is just pissed off. And if they can't prove they are here legally, because they aren't carrying a passport, then he can arrest them until they can prove they are here legally. This is a US citizen we are talking about, not an illegal alien.
I hope that this clears up some of the misunderstandings.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 03:22am PT
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Wow, you mother f*#kers really piss me off sometimes...
I'm the racist? 5 kids with American flag shirts were kicked off out school, and I'm a racist? 2 of those kids were of "mexican" heritage....
f*#k you!
Again...where is the ACLU to defend their rights???? By their lack of presence they show their true colors...red, red, red.....commies....
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James Doty
Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
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F*#k yous sure do fly fast and furious on the internet.
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James Doty
Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
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They don't have to carry a passport but having a valid ID will go a long way toward avoiding being arrested. Technically, anyone without an ID in posesssion can be arrested until identified. It has happened to me and they don't come any whiter looking than me. But I was being an as#@&%e at the time and deserved it.
I think MOST of the time it will play out that way. If an Hispanic looking individual is violating the law and can produce ID like everyone else in this country has to then there will probably be no issue. Do you really believe that cops are going to start running around carding every Hispanic? Talk about a fulltime job! I think this law is going to give them another weapon to help get rid of the gang as#@&%es and that is what they will focus on.
But that being said, Any of us can run into the wrong cop and getting hassled for your ID would be the least of your problems.
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Theres a lot of hate in this thread which is unfortunate that you've allowed your passions to come out as hatred.
I have been struggling recently to self define America. I think ive lost the ideal somewhere and I think its because of the things I see and hear. What is pride in America? Is it blasting someone for sending these kids home? Do you go to that school? What is the deeper meaning behind this silly little problem? So they send the kids back to school and tell everyone else "Don't Riot guys, don't be offended its our flag."
Why do those other kids even feel that way? We've divided our country, not the government, not the media, its the people...
We think were invincible behind our monitors and microphones. Go outside and yell this to someones face. Drive to that school and walk in and yell at those kids, parents, and principles. I'll bet its a lot harder. Chances are you might even talk with someone and realize its all different then it sounds. Don't allow your hate to build and feel like a strong person for spaying it across the internet...
The world is not black and white...
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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It's more about the Monroe doctrine than anything else. That is why it is a U.S. holiday.
I think it here it is a corporate holiday set up to sell beer, Look how it is advertised. The same as St. Paddy's Day. Maybe means a bit to the people back home. I am sure 80% of the people who celebrate Cinco de Mayo do not know what the Monroe Doctrine is.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Salmanizer: She won't need to prove her citizenship, neither will you or I or anyone for that matter. This bill is targeting known illegals in the state of Arizona and allowing Arizona to do something about it. Nobody is going to detain you and demand that you prove your citizenship. The state would get sued. But if you're a known illegal alien living in Arizona or are caught crossing the border, you better come up with a valid passport pronto. The only people who are going to be directly questioned and effected by this new law are those picked up attempting to cross the border and those who are arrested for other crimes and found to be in this country illegally.
The thing is you're giving an opening to the Sheriff Joes of Arizona to run amok. Even more than they already are.
Targeting known illegals? What does that mean? If they are known to be illegal, the border patrol is already on them.
I'll believe the pols of this country are really serious about curbing illegal immigration, and not just pandering to the easily confused segment of the voting public, when the CEO of Iowa Beef Processors and other employers of KNOWN illegals start getting prosecuted.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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THAT is funny!
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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We're cross talking about at least two different issues.
Illegal immigration is one thing, kids getting kicked out of school for wearing an American flag is another.
When it comes to kids, and some of you teachers back me up here, their rights are different when they are in school.
Free speech has limits in the classroom, remember Bong Hits4Jesus? That went to the supreme court. The kid didn't actually have the right to free speech because he was at a school function. While some protest is tolerated, I believe that teachers and admin can shut down any speech that may be disruptive.
Now for Adults- I can walk down the street in my Murican flag speedo if I like, thanks possibly to RockJox's Idaho case. As long as my junk is contained and I don't get popped for indecent exposure.
I can walk my white hairy flag partially covered ass into a whole Mexican American celebration if I want, as long as that celebration is on public property. If some one hits me- it's assault. If I instigate a fight, then we see where it goes from there, but I do have the right to wear my speedo.
Wes- the stars and bars always mystify me. It's the flag of traitors and oppression, but somehow patriotic? On the otherhand, Skynard has some great stuff.
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James Doty
Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
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Dr. F,
Oh, please!
Edit: It is funny though.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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tom - though often times you have a right.... some things are just not right!
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James Doty
Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
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"I'll believe the pols of this country are really serious about curbing illegal immigration, and not just pandering to the easily confused segment of the voting public, when the CEO of Iowa Beef Processors and other employers of KNOWN illegals start getting prosecuted. "
I definitely agree with that.
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wbw
climber
'cross the great divide
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Lynyrd Skynyrd sucks??
Can we limit the nastiness to accusations of racism, being unpatriotic
and ignorance, and puh-leese leave this most classic of southern rock bands out of the fray. Those boys really knew how to play their guitars.
If you really need to put down a southern rock band, try one that actually did suck . . like Molly Hatchet.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 12:32pm PT
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I am sure you must be cool in person, but holy bat sh#t you sound like racist a holes.
Coz, can you explain to me why I'm a racist as#@&%e?
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dktem
Trad climber
Temecula
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The confederate flag question is a weak strawman:
There is no sovereign nation that flies the confederate flag (never really was.)
The issue is whether another flag can have precedence over the American flag on American soil. There is no issue with simply displaying another flag.
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Tom,
I am not sure exactly about the free speech laws at school but I think they are different than outside of school. I have, luckly, never run into that issue. Cracko, (sp) is an administrator and probably knows the California law.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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The Arizona law has an inherent problem in it. Law officers are supposed to make some determination that someone is likely illegal. They are also supposed to avoid using color or race to do it.
How exactly is it going to work. They only look at clothes? Zoot suit or gangbanger clothing = reasonable suspicion of illegal?
Behaviour? Driving an Impala and stopping at taco stands = illegal?
No wonder many of the law enforcement folks don't want anything to with this.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 12:47pm PT
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bluey, can you explain why the confederate flag doesn't get your panties in a wad, but the Mexican flag does?
Neither bothers me. I can see why some would find the Confederate flag offensive though. I don't, however.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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The kids who wore American flags on Cinco De Mayo were being intentionally confrontational, not "proud".
Shet, you have 365 days a year to wear your flag and show your pride.
Why do you have to choose May 5th for this?
Because you,...or your parents who are indoctrinating you, have a problem with the Mexican flag, period.
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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I love the way bluering is afraid of the "commies". It reminds me being a kid and watching those 60's WWII movies. Thanks for break time reading.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Better the pride that resides in a citizen of the world, than the pride that divides when a colorful rag is unfurled. -Neil Peart
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Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
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Blue I got to hand it to you dude, you know how to make 'em sing...
125 post and counting...
add that to all your other posts...
Impressive.
I wonder why?
Cheers,
DD
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matty
Trad climber
los arbor
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If you are seriously arguing that wearing an American flag shirt to school on Cinco w/Mayo is not intentionally disruptive, you are a f*#king moron. If you are arguing that disruptive students should not get kicked out of school, you are a f*#king moron. I guess what I'm trying to say... well, you figure it out bluey.
This is like saying that it is OK to send a black student home from school because they are disturbing some racist white kids who may start a fight if they seem anymore black skin.
Can you imagine a mexican school sending mexican students home for wearing mexican colors to school on a lesser americian holiday?
The students who cannot control their actions upon seeing something they view as insulting are the real problem. I cannot believe they marched out the next day because the students who wore the flags were not punished enough. That is just crazy.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Blue...remember 4th of YOU LIE???? WTF is it with you anyway, post this schit on a POLITICAL site. You ever heard of a Mexican-american? Makes me wanna say PHUCK U! It IS an American holiday knucklehead!!!!
RON
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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state constitution was written in spanish and english
meh, this thread is like chain draws on a slab
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matty
Trad climber
los arbor
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The kids who wore American flags on Cinco De Mayo were being intentionally confrontational, not "proud".
Shet, you have 365 days a year to wear your flag and show your pride.
Why do you have to choose May 5th for this?
Because you,...or your parents who are indoctrinating you, have a problem with the Mexican flag, period.
Why do you choose may 5th to have a problem with it? What are they confronting? Seems to me the only people who would get offended by them would be people who think that in America, the American flag should take a back seat to people who are offended by it. If so I'm all for confronting that belief.
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xkyczar
Trad climber
denver
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"It's so sexy, to be living in America" Dom
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Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
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"Your America is busy inbreeding, and collecting broken cars, Dixie flags and random hubcaps, while mine is busy assimilating and being tolerant."
I like that...
well written.
DD
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Why do you choose may 5th to have a problem with it? What are they confronting?
They have a problem with Messicans getting to openly celebrate anything other than picking fruit.
They are confronting the idea that it's ok to show some pride in their Messican heritage and fly that filthy Messican flag here in Murcah.
Don't tell me this is about the freedom to fly the American colors.
It's about having a problem with Messicans, that's it.
I had a friend that flew the Royal Flag Of Scotland outside his house every day of the year.
Did I get a hard on for it and wave my national flag in his face?
I mean, he's here in Murcah damnit!!
No, I didn't. Out of simple courtesy, I enjoyed seeing him put that thing up and take it down every day.
It's not so hard.
And don't tell me that I don't live in Cali, so I don't understand the Mexican issue either. I live in Central NM, the heart of Hispanic culture and pride. If we get all righteous and mouthy here, where the hispanics have been 300 yrs longer than us, we'd have a war on our hands.
A really stupid one at that.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 01:54pm PT
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So you guys think these kids bought this clothing to only wear on May 5th? You think that's the only time they wear it? Not according to them.
If my camping chair is a patterned American flag (true), can I deploy it on May 5th? Or is that 'insensitive'?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Political correctness is alive and well and living right here.
John
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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So you guys think these kids bought this clothing to only wear on May 5th? You think that's the only time they wear it? Not according to them.
So four of them just decided to wear their American flag gear on the same day, and it just accidentally happened to be May 5th?
Oh wow, now I get it, my bad.....
Political correctness is alive and well and living right here.
And exactly the problem with that is?? It's a fact of the world that there are lots of different kinds of people on this little planet, and we need to give each other a little respect. Not only that, but America is getting more brown skinned by the day. If you can't wrap your head around that, then possibly your descendants have a long and sad future ahead of them.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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I loved Cinco De Mayo when I was tending bar. It was Friday Night Money in the middle of the week!
Now I don't even care, except to avoid places like BevMo because of the crowds.
Cinco De Mayo didn't even get going until sometime in the mid '90s.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Is it OK that Mexican-Americans cheer the Mexican national soccer team and curse the US national soccer team?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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I don't think I've ever seem more insults thrown around before
Keep up the good work
I agree with the first sentence, Dr. F. However, I've always considered insults an admission that the poster lacks arguments.
John
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James Doty
Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
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"The Arizona law has an inherent problem in it. Law officers are supposed to make some determination that someone is likely illegal. They are also supposed to avoid using color or race to do it."
No they're not. It gives them another tool to use if someone doesn't have a valid ID And they suspect the person may be illegally here, after they have broken a law of some kind. As I said, I think it will mainly be used to deport people that are criminals and/or have gang affiliation.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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The thing isn't a drone or M-1 bluering, it's a friggin chair. And as long as the person sitting next to you has one of those "I'm with stupid" t-shirts with the arrow pointing at you, sure, you can deploy it.
Damn you Pate! I just shot coffee out of my nose....
"The Arizona law has an inherent problem in it. Law officers are supposed to make some determination that someone is likely illegal. They are also supposed to avoid using color or race to do it."
No they're not. It gives them another tool to use if someone doesn't have a valid ID And they suspect the person may be illegally here, after they have broken a law of some kind. As I said, I think it will mainly be used to deport people that are criminals and/or have gang affiliation.
Wrong thread James.....
Get with the program!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 02:06pm PT
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The thing isn't a drone or M-1 bluering, it's a friggin chair. And as long as the person sitting next to you has one of those "I'm with stupid" t-shirts with the arrow pointing at you, sure, you can deploy it.
Cool. I wouldn't want to be insensitive, ya know...
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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I'm still laughing!
Good for you for just lettin' it slide off Bluey.
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wbw
climber
'cross the great divide
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Wes, I agree with you that the guitar army that was characteristic of many southern rock groups was too much. But have you ever given Street Survivors a listen? *Three* guitars, each with a distinct sound and style,
and not playing on top of each other. Steve "A little bit of Bakersfield" Gaines was absolutely stunning on that album.
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James Doty
Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
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Read further upthread. This issue has been raised in this thread also.
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dktem
Trad climber
Temecula
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Survival is absolutely correct.
Whenever we see anyone displaying the American flag, we should assume the worst about their motives and get rid of that thing pronto.
I'm off to my town's war memorial right now. They fly that 'murican flag there 24/7. They don't care if its Cinco de Mayo, St. Patty's day or Kwanza.
Gotta go fix that ignorant display of hate...
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James Doty
Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
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But you are right. Checking out.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Survival is absolutely correct.
Whenever we see anyone displaying the American flag, we should assume the worst about their motives and get rid of that thing pronto.
I'm off to my town's war memorial right now. They fly that 'murican flag there 24/7. They don't care if its Cinco de Mayo, St. Patty's day or Kwanza.
Gotta go fix that ignorant display of hate...
I have a huge American flag that I proudly fly many days a year.
Sometimes at random and for no reason at all. But I don't go out to the local Cinco De Mayo parade and shove it in someones face either.
I'm glad that your town has a war memorial and that they fly a flag there.
Arlington National Cemetery, with hundreds of flags on display, is one of my favorite places.
But they allow all those immigrants to sport their religion on their cross or headstone all year round. Star of David, Hindu, American Indian, Buddhist, even those pesky Islamic Crescents....
Shouldn't they only be allowed to sport christian stuff on their headstone?
I served in a tough outfit Dktem, did you?
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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I am sure you must be cool in person, but holy bat sh#t you sound like racist a holes.[/quote
Coz, can you explain to me why I'm a racist as#@&%e?
----------------------
Makes me wanna say, "F*#k you Mexicans". Where is your loyalty? To the US or to Mexico? Why are you so offended by students wearing USA flags on that day?
A couple of kids get sent home and it makes you want to throw down on the whole race. Any idea on the skin color of the principle that sent them home?
So, since they lost the territory in a war, they should get it back?
We even compensated them for the land WE WON WHEN WE WERE ATTACKED!!!
Thats a lot of "we" and "them" like its some kind of other species.
But I'm a racist, so I shouldn't comment.....
Sure, your just being sarcastic but your on the net man. Nobody can hear your voice, you have to expect someones going to believe you just said you were racist.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Hispanic Medal Of Honor Recipients.
The Medal of Honor was created during the American Civil War and is the highest military decoration presented by the United States government to a member of its armed forces. The recipient must have distinguished themselves at the risk of their own life above and beyond the call of duty in action against an enemy of the United States. Due to the nature of this medal, it is commonly presented posthumously.[1]
Forty-three men of Hispanic heritage have been awarded the Medal of Honor. Of the forty-three Medals of Honor presented to Hispanics, two were presented to members of the United States Navy, thirteen to members of the United States Marine Corps and twenty-eight to members of the United States Army. Twenty-five Medals of Honor were presented posthumously.[2][not in citation given]
The first recipient was Corporal Joseph H. De Castro of the Union Army for his actions at Gettysburg, Pennsylvania on July 3, 1863, during the American Civil War and the most recent recipient was Captain Humbert Roque Versace who was posthumously awarded the Medal of Honor on July 8, 2002, by President George W. Bush.[citation needed] Corporal De Castro was a member of the Massachusetts Infantry, a militia that was not part of the "regular" army; however, Private David Bennes Barkley was a member of the regular army during World War I and has been recognized as the Army's first Hispanic Medal of Honor recipient.[3][unreliable source?][not in citation given] In 1864, Seaman John Ortega became the first Hispanic member of the U.S. Navy to receive the Medal of Honor and in 1900, Private France Silva became the first person of Hispanic descent in the U.S. Marine Corps to receive the medal.[4]
Ten recipients were born outside the United States mainland, one each in Chile and Spain, four in Mexico and four in Puerto Rico.
Seaman Philip Bazaar from Chile received the medal in January 1865 and Seaman John Ortega from Spain in December 1865. The first native Mexican recipient was Staff Sergeant Marcario Garcia and the first Puerto Rican was PFC Fernando Luis Garcia.[5] 1st Lt. Rudolph B. Davila, of Hispanic-Filipino descent, was the only person of Filipino ancestry to receive the medal for his actions in the war in Europe during World War II.[6] Private Joe P. Martinez was the first Hispanic-American recipient to be awarded the Medal of Honor posthumously for combat heroism on American soil during the same conflict.[7] 1st Lt. Baldomero Lopez, is the only Hispanic graduate of the United States Naval Academy recipient of the Medal of Honor[8]. Captain Humbert Roque Versace was the first recipient of the Medal of Honor to be given to an Army POW for his actions during captivity in Southeast Asia during the Vietnam War.[9]
Edit: just a little addition:
During the Vietnam Conflict (1963-1973), approximately 80,000 Hispanic Americans served in the American military. Although Latinos only made up about 4.5% of the total U.S. population at that time, they incurred more than 19% of the casualties. In all, thirteen Hispanic soldiers, including three Puerto Ricans, won the Medal of Honor during this conflict.
Twenty thousand Hispanic servicemen and women participated in Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm (1990-1991). In March 1994, 28,067 Latinos comprising just over 5% of the Army, served in the army. Writing in Hispanic Heritage Month 1996: Hispanics - Challenging the Future, Army Chaplain (Capt.) Carlos C. Huerta of the 1st Battalion, 79th Field Artillery stated that "Hispanics have always met the challenge of serving the nation with great fervor. In every war, in every battle, on every battlefield, Hispanics have put their lives on the line to protect freedom."
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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^ ^
That's interesting. A slight correction: people from Spain should not be considered to be "Hispanic."
Whether "Hispanic" is a good term to use in any context, I don't really know, but people from Spain are European and don't really have anything in common with what we think of as Hispanic or Chicano or Brown Power or whatever.
Edit--oh, maybe I screwed that up, sorry.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Latino generally refers to Latin American origin. Hispanic generally refers to a Spanish Speaking origin. Thus, do not call a Brazilian a Hispanic.
At least this is my understanding.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Hispanic
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For the Hispanic population of the United States, see Hispanic and Latino Americans. For other uses, see Hispanic (disambiguation).
Hispanic (Spanish: hispano, hispánico) is a term that originally denoted a relationship to the ancient Hispania (geographically coinciding with the Iberian Peninsula).[note 1] During the modern era, it took on a more limited meaning, relating to the contemporary nation of Spain.
Still more recently, primarily in the United States, the term has also (or alternatively) been used to denote the culture and people of countries formerly ruled by Spain, usually with a majority of the population speaking the Spanish language. These include Mexico, the majority of the Central and South American countries, and most of the Greater Antilles. The Philippines and other nations formerly pertaining to the Spanish East Indies are sometimes also included in this definition, as their culture has many Spanish or Latin American elements.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Political correctness is alive and well and living right here.
Yes, and most emphatically from the right.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 03:28pm PT
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What is an ideal sized quicklink?
Left one is 3/8", right ones are 5/16" stainless
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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I can't imagine someone who would insult America by sitting his ass on our flag. they should be sent to Arizona!
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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I can't believe no one's done this yet.....
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 03:37pm PT
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My eyes!!!!!!! Gah!!!!!
Flag fight!!!!!
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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There was no cinco de mayo celebrations when I was young. We wore orange on St. Patty's day to honor our 25% Scottish ancestry. Bi-lingual was very confusing as all the neighborhoods had different languages - french, polish, spanish, italian, portugese sections of town.
Perhaps its time to have a cultural heritage day - I'll celebrate my roots, and you celebrate yours. We did that to Washington and Lincoln - giving them a united President's Day. Cultural heritage also seems to imply that you are part of this country....otherwise, get ready for a Bastille Day celebration!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Political correctness is alive and well and living right here.
Yes, and most emphatically from the right.
Really, Gary? I read a great deal a personal insults and moral approbrium sent bluering's way on this thread, solely because his opinion is not politically a la mode. Where is the same coming from the right?
John
Edit: According to my first cousin who's lived in Mexico City for 40 years, Cinco de Mayo is no big deal there. They treat it the way we would treat, say, VE Day (which, for those who don't know, is tomorrow).
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Abbie Hoffman, arrested for wearing an American flag shirt.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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he Flag Code - Respect for Flag
No disrespect should be shown to the flag of the United States of America; the flag should not be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are to be dipped as a mark of honor.
(a) The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
(b) The flag should never touch anything beneath it, such as the ground, the floor, water, or merchandise.
(c) The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free.
Bunting of blue, white, and red always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker's desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
(e) The flag should never be fastened, displayed, used, or stored in such a manner as to permit it to be easily torn, soiled, or damaged in any way.
(f) The flag should never be used as a covering for a ceiling.
(g) The flag should never have placed upon it, nor on any part of it, nor attached to it any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture, or drawing of any nature.
(h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
(i) The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkin or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.
(k) The flag, when it is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning.
Source: The American Legion
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Edit: Oops.. Looks like DMT writes faster then I do. haha.. Plus he is more succinct. But whats new about that? haha..
solely because his opinion is not politically a la mode
Come on John, "Solely" because his opinion is not politically a la mode? You reveal a bias in this statement. In his first post he calls anyone who supports the ACLU a fool.
Here is his first post.
know everybody knows this story.
Apparently the US flag takes a backseat on 'Cinco de Mayo'.
Makes me wanna say, "F*#k you Mexicans". Where is your loyalty? To the US or to Mexico? Why are you so offended by students wearing USA flags on that day?
Does Mexico as a country even celebrate that holiday? Isn't Sept the actual victory month?
Why is wearing a American flag NOT PROTECTED BY THE 1ST AMEND. BY THE SILLY_ASS ACLU???
Of course, all you fools who give money to the ACLU won't reply....
He starts the whole thread with insults and profanities and you expect others to behave better. How about a little equal treatment.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 03:58pm PT
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Moosie, keep things in context. That post is rage regarding having to literally cover or hide an American flag because of an obscure Mexican holiday celebrated almost exclusively IN AMERICA.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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School administrators and teachers are closer to the nuances and polemics of the dispute. I'd suggest trusting their judgement in diluting the conflict. These are adolescents and this clash is likely more about social posturing and hierarchy games than misguided patriotism and ethnic loyalties.....
.....and maybe the incentive to get out of class for a day or two....or three.
We all know people of Mexican heritage who are the salt of the earth. We should remember the gentle are just as offended, as the pride frenzied,
when their icons are disrespected. An in-your-face flag display is meant to annoy...not bring context to an ethnic celebration.
Bluering, I like you and doubt you are hateful to Mexican Americans. Please don't let news reports of "high school games" make you reactive and
eclipse your better nature.
The room is teeming with anxious fingers primed to point and lips eager to accuse; "racist", "homophobe", "holocaust denier", "flat earther". Sometimes one must stand for their beliefs contrary to the hurled malice. But on this I think you're pre-empting the school's discretion about juvenile taunting issues and getting angry on behalf of troublemakers, not patriots.
.....not meaning to offend.... just dislike seeing you start whipping post threads with yourself as the casualty.
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barry ohm
Trad climber
escondido, ca
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Hey, Heading off to the East Side Climbing this weekend. I would like to make a deal with you, I won't post a trip report on Your Hate discussion group, if you don't post on the climbing forum.
Peace Barry O
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Blue, I think you are projecting. I think you are the one who needs perspective. You go into a "rage" just because some high school principle sends some kids home in a misguided effort to keep the peace???? A rage???? Come on dude. And anyone who supports the ACLU is a "fool"??? I would say your perspective is out of sorts. It gets tiresome to constantly see the amount of invective hurled on this forum. The occasional outburst is one thing. But maybe you should think twice before you start threads like this. And yep, I don't like the invective hurled by so called liberals either. Even my own..
I actually mostly agree that the principle of the school may have made a mistake. But it is hard to agree with you when you start your argument by calling me a fool. And its hard to wade through all the junk to see some important points that were made on this thread.
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dktem
Trad climber
Temecula
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survival: Arlington National Cemetery, [...] allow all those immigrants to sport their religion on their cross or headstone all year round. Star of David, Hindu, American Indian, Buddhist, even those pesky Islamic Crescents....
Shouldn't they only be allowed to sport christian stuff on their headstone?
What does religion have to do with this? There is freedom of religion in America. No one is debating this.
There is also freedom of speech. Sure there is some extreme speech that is limited for practical reasons, but when we start limiting the right to express our loyalty to America (the very entity that protects our rights), then we've veered into the absurd.
It's ironic that you mention Arlington because that site was chosen because the confederates claimed the land as theirs. The United States government chose the site as a symbol to demonstrate that it was, in fact, part of America and not another country.
There are many religions, races, creeds, whatever at Arlington. But there is only one country at Arlington. The very purpose of the military is to ensure that there is only one country.
But perhaps we should we take down all the American flags at Arlington on Cinco de Mayo? After all, they might offend someone.
I served in a tough outfit Dktem, did you?
Moderately tough (combat engineer, airborne). Not nearly as tough as yours, though.
But what does the toughness of one's military service have to do with the validity of their opinion? Do you really want to make the argument that people who served in the military have more rights than those who did not? My understanding was that we served to protect the rights of others.
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Douglas Rhiner
Mountain climber
Good question?!?!?!?!?
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My understanding was that we served to protect the rights of others.
Bingo!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Actually, Dktem, they also chose it because it was Robert E. Lee's home. According to Ken Burns in "The Civil War" PBS series, Montgomery Meggs, the Quartermaster General of the U.S., lost a son in the war and personally blamed Lee, who was initially offered the Union command, but felt he owed a duty to "my country, Virginia." Meggs chose Arlington to make sure Lee couldn't return there to live.
John
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kbstuffnpuff
Sport climber
State of Confusion
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I just got high a minute ago.
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dktem
Trad climber
Temecula
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John, you are correct.
I paraphrased a little to make the point that the Arlington site was chosen as an "in your face" gesture toward Lee and other Americans that ultimately chose loyalty to another country.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Dingus, from your profile picture....uh will "you" PLEASE come to the next climber(s)(ing) event I'm at????? PLEASE! I'll tag along the usual crew of indignant, horney knuckleheads with me, such as Locker, Cosmic, Blitzo, Todd, Bridwell, and anyone else who wants!
Peace
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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dktem,
No, the toughness of the outfit has no bearing on our rights.
We did serve to protect rights, true.
I didn't know that you served. My apologies.
Survival is absolutely correct.
Whenever we see anyone displaying the American flag, we should assume the worst about their motives and get rid of that thing pronto.
I'm off to my town's war memorial right now. They fly that 'murican flag there 24/7. They don't care if its Cinco de Mayo, St. Patty's day or Kwanza.
Gotta go fix that ignorant display of hate...
My whole spiel though, was about you stating in an earlier post that I somehow felt any display of our colors, including at a memorial was somehow hateful. I never said that at all. These kids that showed up at school with their colors on, it seems to me, did it specifically to provoke those celebrating Cinco De Mayo. Why not let them have a day that they can wave the Mexican flag if they feel like it?
It doesn't mean they're not Americans and have the same rights that we served for.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Really, Gary? I read a great deal a personal insults and moral approbrium sent bluering's way on this thread, solely because his opinion is not politically a la mode. Where is the same coming from the right?
Why, from mr. bluering.
And certainly, John, you don't believe political correctness to be the sole property of the "left".
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Technically, anyone without an ID in posesssion can be arrested until identified.
The things presented under the guise of it being correct is astonishing.
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James Doty
Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
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I said technically. It usually doesn't. I also said that it happened to me. So instead of spewing, enlighten me.
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photonez
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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I think Cinco de Mayo is an American holiday (beer holiday). Most the Mexicans I know are still wondering why this holiday is celebrated.
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James Doty
Trad climber
Idyllwild, Ca.
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I checked it out and you are correct. Only if requested by an officer while driving and you don't have it and they suspect you of a crime. Man, I wish I had known that! But my crime was apparently beig a dick to the cop.
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dktem
Trad climber
Temecula
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survival,
I appreciate your words. And my apologies to you if I went over the line. I often do. My sarcasm often got me into trouble when I was in the army as well...
You're almost certainly correct in assuming that these kids wore the American flag shirts to poke a little jab. The school principal did have to make a tough call. It does seem that freedom of speech debates always often involve people who push the limits of good taste.
But we can't forget that it is equally convenient that the other side chose to be so offended by this expression that it led to a genuine disruption.
If you read some of my posts in other threads, you'll see that I'm mostly left-leaning on a number of issues. I don't agree with a number of US policies, including the current wars. My wife (and children) are minorities, her parents are immigrants, and I often find myself defending the rights of non Christian religions, including Islam. My adopted son was born a Muslim and has a Muslim middle name, just like our President (whom I voted for.)
However I do feel that there is an out-of-control "political correctness" mentality in our culture that is often manifests itself in strange and harmful ways. This story illustrates it perfectly. There is way too much emphasis on supposed victims, and we tolerate too many people who insincerely try to play the victim card. Often it puts white people at a disadvantage solely because of their race -- a bizarre irony, since the supposed intent of this movement is to eliminate discrimination. The definition of fairness is becoming one-sided.
The principal who made the decision to punish these kids had to consider a number of factors, and it was certainly not an easy call to make. But it is disappointing that the mentality of one-sided fairness -- the "minority" is always the victim -- prevailed over our most basic right to express loyalty to the very country that protects these rights.
Dave
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 7, 2010 - 07:06pm PT
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dktem, that's probably how I should have started this thread. I get a little 'colorful' sometimes.
Nice post, I couldn't have said it better!
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Great post Dave.
Tip of the hat.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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//However I do feel that there is an out-of-control "political correctness" mentality in our culture that is often manifests itself in strange and harmful ways. This story illustrates it perfectly. There is way too much emphasis on supposed victims, and we tolerate too many people who insincerely try to play the victim card. Often it puts white people at a disadvantage solely because of their race -- a bizarre irony, since the supposed intent of this movement is to eliminate discrimination. The definition of fairness is becoming one-sided.
The principal who made the decision to punish these kids had to consider a number of factors, and it was certainly not an easy call to make. But it is disappointing that the mentality of one-sided fairness -- the "minority" is always the victim -- prevailed over our most basic right to express loyalty to the very country that protects these rights.//
I thought this was pretty well stated but I feel I need to comment. This may be one of the "factors" you mention, maybe not. The principals' decision appears to be based on a desire to avoid a conflict and maybe some headbusting between minors', who he or she has a duty to protect while they're at school, vs. allowing them full expression of their 1st Amendment rights. High schools students/minors have a lower of protection than us adults do. Schools can search their lockers, limit what kinds of speech and activity they can have on campus. It's just part of being a teen.
However, since I haven't read thru all the posts, I'm not sure if anyone asked why these God fearin' Americuh loving' kids all decided to wear American flags on Cinco de Mayo. What was the ethnic makeup of the kids wearing the flag? Was it to show their love of country? or was it to show their that they belong more than kids who's parents immigrated from the south or than kids who emigrated during their own lifetime?
I say this as someone who's part white/part Latino, but there is a definite faction is white society that holds the belief that they belong and we do not. My dad worked with a couple of guys who expressed this perspective often. One was big white guy from Texas, who would always tell his Japanese American co-worker, "America for Americans." One day it was finally revealed that white Texas guy was only second generation and Japanese American guy was fifth. Still, white Texas guy clung to his A for A attitude. Was he racist or a flag waver? How about these suspended kids? Given the timing of their sudden burst of patriotism, how would we characterize them? Given their age, I'd just say they're young and maybe not so smart. If they were adults, I'd probaby be less willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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An Educator would have taken advantage of the situation to present a "Teachable Moment". Sounds like a lesson in tolerance was in order.
Too bad that Principal wasn't an Educator.
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AllezAllez510
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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"However, since I haven't read thru all the posts, I'm not sure if anyone asked why these God fearin' Americuh loving' kids all decided to wear American flags on Cinco de Mayo. What was the ethnic makeup of the kids wearing the flag? Was it to show their love of country? or was it to show their that they belong more than kids who's parents immigrated from the south or than kids who emigrated during their own lifetime?"
Two of the kids were Latino with Spanish surnames.
I don't understand the big deal. The district came out publicly saying the VP's actions were wrong. He was reprimanded, as he should have been. What's the big deal?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Wow! A great many excellent posts in this set. It's amazing how that happens when we quit villifying and insulting each other.
John
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Maybe after Arizona's actions Mexicans feel like it's all the more important to be visible this year. Hell, can't wait to see latino voting patterns in the fall. Lots of them tend to be conservative, but could see some blowback on the republicans this fall. That's the problem with the immigration issue for the republicans - lot of gambling for them in the issue.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mexicans are the same race as you, me, and Bluering.
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AllezAllez510
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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"And the vast majority never face any significant danger so where is the heroism?"
Define 'heroism'?
The amount of money that goes into the military in this country is a personal pet peeve of mine, but questioning the 'heroism' of any service member is asking for it...
...but, I'm biased...I have a cousin in Iraq and a father(!) in Afghanistan.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2010 - 01:22am PT
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I am offended by your remarks and I think you could have been a little hammered when you made them. You might want to say a big Lo Siento to the Mexican people on this thread.
As a matter of fact I was drinkin'...But to say that I owe some kind of apology to Mexican-heritaged people is un-called for.
I never meant to insult Mexicans. This thread was supposed to be about 5 kids who had to hide their shirt flags. Or go home!
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Delhi Dog
Trad climber
Good Question...
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"I never meant to insult Mexicans. This thread was supposed to be about 5 kids who had to hide their shirt flags. Or go home!"
Well then you blew it.
But, what the heck, some interesting thoughts sprung up.
Too bad it was at others' expense...maybe an apology?
Cheers,
DD
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2010 - 01:34am PT
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How does a few kids wearing Uhmerikuhnt flag shirts make you want to say "F*#k you Mexicans"?
I thought I already stated why.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Walking into a Mexican High-school, wearing a flag on Cinco de Mayo, probably sounds like a good idea to you! But it sounds real dumb and disrespectful to me.
I thought this was about an incident that occurred at a US high school. Not a Mexican high school.
Kind of an important difference, don't ya think?
Everyday is USA day, why not let the Mexicans have a day to show off their culture?
Yeah everyday in the USA is USA day. Every day in Mexico in Mexico day i reckon. If someone wants to have a class or whatever to show off another culture sometime, that's a good idea and I'm all for it.
But listen here:
EVERYDAY IN THE USA IS USA DAY. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT!
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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99% of Mexicans don't celebrate Cinco de Mayo much less even know what it celebrates.....
and most Americans think it's Mexican Independence Day. Hahaha!
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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some folks need to find drama in everything..
blah blah blah....
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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What I'm confused about with the response to this incident is why no one has said "F*#k you Assistant Principals!!!" (Not that this would be my response).
Instead, because of the action of one Asst. Principal, some are angry at an entire group of folks who did not make the decision.
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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
SoCal
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Good morning trollfest! I love my Mexican brothers and sisters like family.
I sit here drinking my most excellent Mexican coffee as the sun rises up the Big Tujunga. My Mexican maid will be here soon to make my house clean. I cannot travel far from So Cal for very long or I go into Mexican food withdrawals. Who else can take some dried beans and some lard and make food that is fit for gods.
Some day the few criminals that keep the Mexican society f-'ed up with corruption will be rehabilitated and the Mexican people will be free to prosper. When that happens US Whities will flood into that beautiful place until the whole country looks like upscale San Diego County.
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mynameismud
climber
backseat
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Definition of Evil
The which instills or perpetuates prejudice.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2010 - 01:17pm PT
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The ACLU is our nation's guardian of liberty, working daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country.
Then why are they not defending the free expression of these 5 boys who were censored for wearing our country's flag?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sounds like a bunch of liberal crap to me bluering. Why don't you cut your hair about it.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2010 - 01:25pm PT
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I'm not sure you clearly explained why a school officials decision to send the kids home makes you want to tell an entire group of people to f*#k off.
Because if anybody is offended by the proud display of an American flag in this country, they can f*#k off, but that's just my opinion. Some people sh#t on it, burn it, or trash it.
And yeah, Crimpie's right, the VP is the dick in this case. He could have handled the whole thing better and made it a teachable moment (as Chaz stated). It could have been a time to teach tolerance and respect.
Backfire!!!!
EDIT: HDDJ, I don't have long hair to be a 'hippy'.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Tolerance and respect? More liberal crap. This is America, bluering. If you don't love it then get out.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2010 - 01:34pm PT
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HDDJ, I'm very tolerant and respectful of other cultures when I've lived and visited foreign countries.
I DEMAND the same when people CHOOSE to live here. You have a right to sh#t on this country, but I also have the right to call you on it.
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Ricardo Cabeza
climber
All Over.
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Yeah. What he said.
Bluey, I've resisted commenting on this, because I like ya'.
However, you come across as super-closed minded in your ruminations.
I may agree with you, I may not, you'll never know.
My request to you is to tone it down. Listen... rather than react, to what others have to say.
You don't have to agree, in fact, you can disagree, it's all good.
But please, relax, smoke a bowl, crank a heiniken(sp?), but above all else, breathe...
I like you dude, you just seem to get caught up in a conversation sometimes without taking the time to step back and assess how you're coming off in other peoples eyes.
I can tell from your posts that you care about your fellow man, please don't forget that when you write on the internet.
Be Well,
Brandon-
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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"F*#k you Mexicans"
I'm very tolerant and respectful of other culture
The self delusion continues apace.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2010 - 02:41pm PT
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"F*#k you Mexicans"
Elcap, as John said earlier, when you have no valid argument, call names and misquote people out of context.
Classic! OMG!!! Bluey said F*#k all Mexicans!!!! I think one time he even called all women nothing more than c#m catchers!
What a dick, Bluey!
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Then why are they not defending the free expression of these 5 boys who were censored for wearing our country's flag?
Or it might be because there is NOTHING to defend. The school district has already stated that what the VP did was wrong. So what would they defend? The rights of kids to wear the American flag? That has already been upheld. So there is nothing to defend. Blue has a hair trigger on this subject.
From reading more about this, it does sound like there is a lot of tension on that campus, and maybe the VP handled it poorly, but he was trying to keep a fight from happening, so his intentions were good.
I do agree with Bluey's stance that the Hispanics don't have a right to get upset because some kids wear American flags. They live in America. The school should be teaching them to appreciate both facts. That they have a good heritage and they live in a good country.
Blue, I think you should try to get past the anger Wes expresses and try to see his point. You have a tendency to blame groups you don't like for the actions of the individual, such as muslims and mexicans, but you don't blame the whole group for the actions of individuals in groups you support, such as the Catholic church. Or at least that is how you express yourself, which comes across as either biased or racist.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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. . . misquote people out of context.
I think the context is pretty clear.
Topic Author's Original Post - May 6, 2010 - 06:13pm PT
I know everybody knows this story.
Apparently the US flag takes a backseat on 'Cinco de Mayo'.
Makes me wanna say, "F*#k you Mexicans". Where is your loyalty? To the US or to Mexico? Why are you so offended by students wearing USA flags on that day?
Does Mexico as a country even celebrate that holiday? Isn't Sept the actual victory month?
Why is wearing a American flag NOT PROTECTED BY THE 1ST AMEND. BY THE SILLY_ASS ACLU???
Of course, all you fools who give money to the ACLU won't reply....
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2010 - 02:48pm PT
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You have a tendency to blame groups you don't like for the actions of the individual, such as muslims and mexicans, but you don't blame the whole group for the actions of individuals in groups you support, such as the Catholic church. Or at least that is how you express yourself, which comes across as either biased or racist.
You're assuming a bit much there, but I get your point.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2010 - 02:49pm PT
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Wanda, what was the point of my post in your opinion?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2010 - 03:05pm PT
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Man, I wish I was climbing this weekend.....
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Point? Since when have you needed a coherent point to your rantings?
It's interesting to see the kinds of things that trigger your knee-jerk reactions. They say a lot about you and your narrow perspective.
All I see in your post is angry bigotry and clumsy attempts to insult and anger those on the side of, what are in your narrow-minded view, the evil forces out to destroy mom's apple pie.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2010 - 03:36pm PT
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All I see in your post is angry bigotry and clumsy attempts to insult and anger those on the side of, what are in your narrow-minded view, the evil forces out to destroy mom's apple pie.
Thanks, a lot of people see it that way. Thinking people, who are capable of wading through my rhetoric, see it differently. I just lay things out differently, usually in a disruptive manner.
You see bigotry. I see 5 kids denied their rights to free expression.
Whatever...
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Thinking people, who are capable of wading through my rhetoric, see it differently. I just lay things out differently, usually in a disruptive manner.
Funny. As if there is some art to your simple-minded posts.
Those of us who actually can think and analyze and wade through rhetoric are the ones who have been critical of you because we really understand what your words show.
edit - What avatar?
: )
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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love your avitar, wanda!
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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The fifth of May is as much an "American" holiday as it is a "Mexican" one.
It celebrates an important victory over the French invaders who would eventually take over that country: the battle of Puebla.
If the French had not been stalled at the battle of Puebla, they would have resupplied the Confederate government of the southern U.S. as they (the French) favored a defeat of the North.
At the very least this would have prolonged the American Civil War!
WE OWE THE MEXICANS A DEBT OF GRATITUDE FOR THEIR EFFORT AND SACRIFICE IN DEFENSE OF THEMSELVES AND OUR UNION.
Cinco de Maya is a celebration of an alliance of sorts between our two countries... why is everybody so upset?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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It should be OK to wear an American Flag to school on an American Holiday ( like Cinco De Mayo ).
Any uppity Vice-Principal who stands in the way should be fired.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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"You see bigotry. I see 5 kids denied their rights to free expression."
Bluering, may we also consider the "rights" of the student body to an orderly, safe and strife free learning environment ? Can we class such ideals under "persuit of happiness"....or do the liberties of five provocateurs pre-empt that consideration ?
Should we teach children absolute freedom of expression without regard for responsibility? .....or perhaps that "rights" are derived in responsible behavior ?
Oh no! Here comes SpongeBob and his friends....parading, flouncing and flaunting red T-shirts and red Squarepants on St Patrick's Day. We BEST define such behavior as:
A. Freedom of expression
B. Accidental, random kid behavior
C. Wanted to get pinched to show off their wounds and/or get days off D. Provoking behavior
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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bluering said - HDDJ, I'm very tolerant and respectful of other cultures when I've lived and visited foreign countries.
I DEMAND the same when people CHOOSE to live here. You have a right to sh#t on this country, but I also have the right to call you on it.
You CHOOSE to live here and I'm calling you out on YOUR shitting on this country right now you friggin hippie. You're the one trash talking other Americans and insulting the Vice-President of the United States. How many votes did you get in the last election? Or did you just sit at home dropping acid and complaining about how awful Americans were?
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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The Arizona law applies to all illegal aliens, not just the ones from Mexico.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Chaz said - The Arizona law applies to all illegal aliens, not just the ones from Mexico.
Yes our large Asian and eastern European population is running scared.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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Machete!
"They just f*#ked with the wrong Mexican!"
I love it!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2010 - 11:50pm PT
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nice try, wes.
Asshole!!!
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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I'd like to know what the national policy is per illegal immigrants in Mexico, Japan, China, Germany, Italy, France, and Columbia.
JL
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2010 - 12:47pm PT
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Funny you say that, Wes. I had a similar occurrence.
I was fixing a TR at a roadisde crag where about half a dozen 'vatos' had joined us to drink beers along the creek. Well, I drop a locker from the top and I yell, "Biner!!!!", to my buddies about to be bashed. After 2 seconds I realize that I may get challenged when I get down.
Nothing happened, but I was running through my explanation on the downclimb just in case.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2010 - 12:59pm PT
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they are tools of the rich right. The TB back in the day where against the rich elite.
Are you serious??? Who speaks for middle tax taxpayers? Why did the TB movement start? When did it get legs? Do you remember?
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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I made the mistake of walking to the other side of the football field during a high school game against a team from east LA...i was immeadiately surrounded by 15 munchkin- sized pepper bellies that were threatening to beat my white ass....for the crime of being white... it seems like the majority of the chili bellies i work around would just as soon have the rest of their compadres working on the site and us whitey's down the road.....the racism goes both ways in case you politically correct pipe dreamers aren't exposed to it and further more the mexicans typically won't pick a fight if they are by themselves thus the gang mentality....juan rotten
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2010 - 03:00pm PT
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RJ, that's awfully politically incorrect. You're supposed to refer to yourself as a cracker, apparently, not a 'white' guy.
Get with the program!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Sorry bluey....i'll try to toe the PC line....Some of the older illegals in town refer to me as El Coyote after this climber ( who likes to poo on ropes ) and i drank a bottle of vodka then spray painted my van with mexican grafitti and the words El Coyote...i became an instant hero with the hispanics inspite of my lack of fluency in spanish....viva los crackers y el coyote...rj
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Papillon Rendre
climber
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Romeo and Juliet- Capulets versus Montagues
West Side Story- Jets versus Sharks
Old stories which have been going on forever- Albeit these are love stories but these stories reflect the same mentality of one ethnicity versus another-
Perhaps the pipe dreamers were raised by parents who were able to recognize the ignorance of racism and prejudice and taught their children to also make this distinction. It will never stop as long as we allow this ignorance to be passed on from generation to generation.
The only way it can possibly change is for the pipe dreamer to speak their message.
However, sadly to say, it will never change because it is an aspect of human nature which has been passed on from generation to generation, probably since the beginning of time.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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True Papiilon and maybe the fact that there are too many rats in the box fighting over limited resources has something to do with it....When my parents were growing up on farms the block-headed Norwegians was one of the favorite disses.....rj
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Just saying.....call a german "kraut" or an irishman " mick" or a dago " italian" and they probably won't sh#t their pants....call a Latino "beaner" and brace yourself for a firestorm....rj
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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RJ said Just saying.....call a german "kraut" or an irishman " mick" or a dago " italian" and they probably won't sh#t their pants
If you called my grandfather a wop or a dago he'd break your f*#king knees.
If you called my grandmother "whitey" she'd probably sh#t herself with rage.
Stop with the generalizations already you cracker.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Pate....i was knaive and didn't know racism existed when i walked to the other side of the stadium....not being open or phony....but i learned very quickly that there is racism....rj
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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bleuring said Are you serious??? Who speaks for middle tax taxpayers? Why did the TB movement start? When did it get legs? Do you remember?
It kills me that you actually refer to it as the "Tea Bag Movement." So many entendres.
And it got started/got legs when a black Kenyan Democrat won the Presidency (on a platform of protecting middle class taxpayers and making sure they had jobs/health insurance....er I mean an islamo-fasco-socialist-communist platform designed to ensure capitalists could make lots of money at the expense of middle class white Americans...and reparations).
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2010 - 05:19pm PT
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HDDJ, you need to post a TR one of these days....
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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One of the interesting things around here (Venice/Santa Monica, California) is the high percentage of kids with one latino and one anglo parent. A true bicultural person, quickly becoming the majority around these parts since the white doods are so very partial to the Chicanas. Another interesting thing are all the snow white kids raised by Spanish speaking nannies, and who themselves are fluent in Spanish. They are all over the place, blond haired surfer kids just rattling off Espanol like Central American nationals. There are emersion schools around here as well. The lines between races are getting very blurry in these parts. Like my two daughter (mom is Venezuelan).
JL
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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California culture has borrowed from Mexican culture for as long as I can remember.
I remember pinatas at bithday parties when I was a young kid 40+ years ago.
My grandmother always brought tamales to Christmas dinner. I never knew tamales were Mexican until I was 14, when I got a job in a Mexican restaurant.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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In high school, we were required to take a foreign language. I fooled them, I took Spanish instead.
I always thought there was something wrong with you people who took French.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Weschrist writes:
"After a nigger got elected and I got a tax cut."
You're wrong on both accounts.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2010 - 06:55pm PT
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Anyone living in California pissing and moaning about being white needs to be jack slapped.
I agree, but I don't hear that. Everyone is pretty cool with everything.
Mostly...
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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The US should ban Cinco de Mayo (bloody sp*cks), St Patrick's Day (stupid Micks and Paddies), Columbus Day (all w*ps are mafioso), in fact every holiday of any sort, you Lazy Bum(s) (5.10d, Sunnyside Bench), get back to work, there is no longer going to be any holidays in America, and this revolution will NOT be televised.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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They never figured out how to make Colombus Day a beer-holiday. At least not yet.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Bluering said - HDDJ, you need to post a TR one of these days....
This last trip was the best I've ever had. I dropped at 11:30pm. I started noticing a change at around 12am. I was standing in 7-11, kinda disoriented.
I turned around and it hit me. The room strated shifting, and the shelves started beding. 3 of us were tripping. All I remember is that whenever we wanted to light a cigarette, we'd ask for a light, start laughing and remember about 1/2 later that we were holding an un lit cigarette. Adam and I were sitting outside behind a car. the car was on the right side curb. A car rolls by and he says it's a cop and runs away. I was left sitting there alone. Now I heard the car, saw the lights, but I didn't exactly see the car. When I got up to run away. Everything stopped. The sounds went away, and the lights went away to. I tell thats the biggest most life-like trip/visual I've ever had.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Get a life bluering, you're making a mountain out of a molehill.
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lucander
Trad climber
New England
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You folks are odd - this is a climbing page, or so I thought. Ya'll need to get a few feet above your last piece of gear while climbing near your limit & get your priorities straight - especially the O.P. C'mon dude, it's a flag - a damn piece of fabric.
Vive Los Suns - America has always been a multicultural & multi ethnic nation state.
DL
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2010 - 01:41am PT
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Ya'll need to get a few feet above your last piece of gear while climbing near your limit & get your priorities straight - especially the O.P. C'mon dude, it's a flag - a damn piece of fabric.
Some of us are capable of multitasking, believe it or not.
And Wes, do you have a point? Ever led above your trad gear? You seem to know everything about where I climb. And yet I see no pics of your godly figure actually climbing.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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May 10, 2010 - 02:24am PT
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Why do you hate Americans so much, bluering?
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sammy-pajamy
Boulder climber
citrus heights ca
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May 10, 2010 - 03:42am PT
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hell yeah wes! well said! and haters Idk your stories go both ways just as you say that rascism goes both ways, IM Mexican American and have lived both ways a Mexican can live in the states Prosporus or poverity and the same lesson i learned down both paths still applies to me today in all my 18 years glory "talk sh#t get hit" I was one of dingus's daughters hispanic sisters and I taught them as much as they taught me, have respect for one anothers ethnicity & cultures and think before you speak. Its that simple, joking and blatantly throwing derogatory terms at a race i.e. mucnhkin Chilli bellies, wetbacks, etc. etc are two very diffrent things this coming from a half white half mexican women I can only hope you open your eyes.
Take care
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S.Leeper
Sport climber
Austin, Texas
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May 10, 2010 - 10:17am PT
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Where's Largo? His name is Spanish for crying out loud.
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Seamstress
Trad climber
Yacolt, WA
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May 10, 2010 - 12:16pm PT
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Excuse me - I took French. My grandparents were from Quebec. We lived in a community that had a large french heritage. Over 20% of all international calls in New England were to the french speaking portion of Canada.
Bi-lingual should be speaking more than one language. It has come to mean Spanish/English. That irritates those of use with close ties to other languages and nationalities. Last time I checked, Canada is on our border and has been awfully friendly to us.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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May 10, 2010 - 12:35pm PT
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Yes Skipt, let's base all of our national policies on for profit sports ventures.
It's pretty sad that you scream about the overreach of government most of the time, but when the government makes a law that literally allows the cops to imprison anyone for simply not having the proper ID while walking down the street (or reporting a violent crime) you defend it with absurd analogies.
There is a difference between what the law was intended to do, and what it actually does in real life. Stop living in a fantasy that this law will only target those here illegally. It won't.
Weschrist said Does AZ require ALL CITIZENS to carry and present proper documentation of citizenship... or just the Latinos?
Technically it only REQUIRES immigrants to. But ANYONE can be checked based on "suspicion." That means if I head to the gym and forget my wallet (and my ID) and a cop stops me and is "reasonably suspicious" and I can't "reasonably prove" my legal status they can toss me in jail right there. That in essence requires everyone to be able to prove citizenship at any moment for any reason.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2010 - 12:55pm PT
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Boston Tea Party Blue, that's the start of the movement, goggle it
Maybe you should Google Rick Santelli of CNBC...
Blue, refering to Largos Nina's when u said f mx?
Or do you know the difference? Or do you just hate all people of color?
That's pretty f*#king weak to bring John's daughters into this. Lame.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2010 - 01:03pm PT
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I don't have any problems with Mexican people, unless they come to this country and sh#t on it. That goes for ALL immigrants including white ones.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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May 10, 2010 - 01:34pm PT
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We call these knee jerk Democrats
Yes, those Republicans have been really serious about stopping illegal immigration.
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dirtbag
climber
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May 10, 2010 - 02:42pm PT
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Sorry, I don't have time to look for Mexican booby gifs.
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dirtbag
climber
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May 10, 2010 - 02:51pm PT
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I likey Wes! :-)
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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May 10, 2010 - 02:58pm PT
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weschrist said - Please articulate what "suspicion" of being an immigrant might involve in Arizona...
Yeah there's the problem isn't it. They say that it won't be race so I guess they assume they'll overhear someone say "well I was hopping the fence last week."
bluering said - I don't have any problems with Mexican people, unless they come to this country and sh#t on it. That goes for ALL immigrants including white ones.
Most Mexicans come to this country and make it better. You seem to be the one shitting on it.
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Papillon Rendre
climber
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May 10, 2010 - 05:24pm PT
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Skip:
I presume when one is fixed in an attitude for so long, it is hard to listen or try to understand the other side; however, boasting about ones' achievements and feats, indeed deplorable.
A humble man would hold his altruistic accomplishments closer to the vest.
It is admirable what you do for the hispanic community, but not when it is disclosed so you can inflict an attitude of inferiority on another man.
Good day.
-PR
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photonez
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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May 10, 2010 - 06:05pm PT
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Climb on!
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Papillon Rendre
climber
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May 10, 2010 - 06:07pm PT
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Yes, Coz, I am absurdly overwrought that I do not see his point.
Perhaps some counseling, for me is in order.
-PR
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 10, 2010 - 07:40pm PT
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HighDesert....the pissing contest continues.....i think you said something about the latinos making this country better....in this town , people shopping for real estate , beat feet when they see the latino housing project is part of the deal.....not saying latinos are bad , but most white people don't want to buy real estate when they notice there is an overcrowded ghetto inhabited by hispanics.....Why is that ? .....Skipt....small world...my uncle was investigating Caesar Chavez for embezzling union funds...as a result , death threats were made against my uncle requiring police protecton at his residence....the issue here is law...bottom line....if you are not here legally , then you may suffer the consequence....i apologize to dingus's 18 year old female relative for mentioning all the standard racial epitats.....i personally think they are distasteful but on the other hand , see the humor in them....lighten up....rj
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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May 12, 2010 - 10:17am PT
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"MOVING TO MEXICO
Dear President Obama:
I'm planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me. We're planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. Into Mexico, and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements. We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws. I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I'm on my way over?
Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:
1. Free medical care for my entire family.
2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.
3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.
4. I want my grand kids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.
5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.
6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.
7. Please plan to feed my grand kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.
8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.
9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico , but, I don't plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won't make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.
10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.
11. I plan to fly the U.S. Flag from my house top, put U S. Flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals and they should not go to school that day wearing anything with the Mexican flag.
12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.
13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.
14. I want to receive free food stamps.
15. Naturally, I'll expect free rent subsidies.
16. I'll need Income tax credits so although I don't pay Mexican Taxes, I'll receive money from the government.
17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Gov't pays $4,500 to help me buy a new car.
18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I'll get a monthly income in retirement.
I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U.S. from Mexico . I am sure that President Calderon won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.
Tell him I plan to run against him in the next presidential election and I was really born in Mexico. Trust me, no need to see my birth certificate.
Thank you so much for your kind help. You're the man!!!."
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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May 12, 2010 - 12:30pm PT
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stzzo, there you go again. Facts are stupid things.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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May 12, 2010 - 12:33pm PT
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RJ said - HighDesert....the pissing contest continues.....i think you said something about the latinos making this country better....in this town , people shopping for real estate , beat feet when they see the latino housing project is part of the deal.....not saying latinos are bad , but most white people don't want to buy real estate when they notice there is an overcrowded ghetto inhabited by hispanics.....Why is that
You tell me. Why is that? What is your point? Also, easy on the periods buddy they don't grow on trees.
Stzzo- That is obviously as fake as Obama's birth certificate because otherwise it would totally undermine bluering's legitimate complaint and the entire purpose of this thread.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 12, 2010 - 12:40pm PT
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Nice to see the ACLU finally step in.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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May 13, 2010 - 12:08am PT
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high Dessert i don't know why real estate won't sale near the latino housing ? sorry about the period under the question mark rj
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| Messages 1 - 239 of total 239 in this topic |
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Of course it's not Mexican independence day
Let us know!