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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 10, 2010 - 03:22am PT
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There is an interesting article in Scientific American online in which noted Everest historian Tom Holzel thinks he may have spotted Sandy Irvine's body through the use of hi-res photography:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=mount-everest-mystery
Only time will tell.
Bruce
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Feb 10, 2010 - 06:56am PT
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Thanks for the reference. I read everything I can about Mallory and Irvine and keep hoping that by some miracle they made it.
Some of Holzel's information has been published on everest.net already along with many other theories. His is the first new theory to come along for quite a while however and the technology is impressive.
For sure, all my Sherpa friends know to keep looking for an old climber and old cameras. They're well aware that the cameras are worth big money!
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 10, 2010 - 10:29am PT
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Bullpuckey.
Strive to learn.
(I thought it was cool when they figured out what happened to Everett Ruess, for example.)
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:13am PT
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Holzel has done exhaustive research and many of his theories are quite intriguing but, I think his presumed timeline is an unsupportable assumption.
What I've always wanted to know is exactly how many bottles of gas were stashed at C6. How many bottles were there before, during and after Mallory and Irvine's summit attempt? And how many are accounted for? Many folks have assumed that the O2 apparatus parts inside their tent meant that they had problems and a late start. I've always considered that they had an equal chance of an early start and that Irvine may have rigged triple tanks for the summit assault. You can see pictures from the expedition of Irvine with a triple tank rig. I also think it was equally possible that in an effort to maintain national pride the Chinese may have removed or destroyed potential evidence. One Chinese climber acknowledged moving an old O2 tank uphill. Why would you, at high altitude, carry an empty cylinder UP?
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quietpartner
Trad climber
Moantannah
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:14am PT
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If I were a Sherpa who had lived a half-starved hand-to-mouth existence, I'd do anything to get the camera to provide for my family.
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wbw
climber
'cross the great divide
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:15am PT
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I'm currently reading The Beckoning Silence by Joe Simpson. I'm not sure what should have been done with Mallory's body, but Joe is quite down on Conrad Anker, et al for what he would describe as pillaging Mallory's body. He claims that what they did to Mallory's remains forever changes the ideal that his family, friends and fans would have had all of these years. He was particularly down on the writing that was done, telling what the birds had done to the body, and what the guys that found the body did to have prove that it was Mallory.
Any chance of just letting Irvine RIP on Everest??
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:22am PT
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I wouldn't be down on Conrad Anker.
No matter WHAT one does in that position there will be endless criticism.
I saw the display at the Nat Geo building and spoke to some of the people involved and got the impression that appropriate respect was given. Its fascinating stuff really. Archeologists with moral imperatives deal with similar issues.
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:22am PT
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mystery is better than the facts
I'd personally rather the facts 99.99% of the time, why live by speculations?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:30am PT
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More compelling to me than the missing camera (or possibly cameras) is the missing photograph.
The one that was known to be neatly wrapped in silks and carefully stashed in Mallory's breast pocket. The portrait of his ever-so patient wife. The photo that he had vowed to leave only on the summit. When found and respectfully searched it was gone. So unless Conrad swiped it for a souvenir where did it go? Doesn't seem in character that he would leave it at a high point. Neither does it seem likely that his dying effort would be to toss his wife's picture to the wind. The other thing that gets neglected when considering IF Mallory could have climbed the 2nd step is the amount of snow up there in those years. Pictures from the early British recons and expeditions invariably show a much snowier Everest than we see these days. Deep snow could have greatly shortened the height of the now infamous 2nd ladder facilitating a much easier ascent than in latter years.
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Gunkie
Trad climber
East Coast US
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:38am PT
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mystery is better than the facts
I'd personally rather the facts 99.99% of the time, why live by speculations? Yeah, who pooped on the Wings of Steel gear? I've been blaming Royal Robbins for too long.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:43am PT
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Those in the know are reconciled to the fact that Mallory and
Irvine descended from the South Col to the NE and were kidnapped
by lesbian Yetis for use as boy toys.
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:43am PT
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Your statement seemed fairly generalized, hence my generalized response.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:47am PT
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the rise of reductionism in it's perjorative form is the result of curiosity run amok. yup. though I think we all have some level of that curiosity. "It's the question that drives us"
I know why you're here, Neo. I know what you've been doing... why you hardly sleep, why you live alone, and why night after night, you sit by your computer. You're looking for him. I know because I was once looking for the same thing. And when he found me, he told me I wasn't really looking for him. I was looking for an answer. It's the question that drives us. It's the question that brought you here. You know the question, just as I did."
"What is the Matrix?
though I'm not so wed to Everest as to be vested in this particular mystery. Though they probably fired it. :)
now, for the Sierra Nevada, I like having the idea of hidden peaks and faces that still need be found and climbed. Without that, I'm not sure I would be more than a gym climber. NTTIAWWT
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:51am PT
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Conrad is a good egg. Just knowing the man, I have complete cofidence that he treated Mallory's remains with utter respect. Incidently, I have, read the book.
As far as Irvine, I'm pretty much with DMT, though if there is a camera bring it down!
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:53am PT
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Thanks Reilly! It's good to finally put this mystery to bed as it were.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:56am PT
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Yeah, Philo, I think we realize the real mystery is
the whereabouts of the luv chillen.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Feb 10, 2010 - 12:00pm PT
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While I prefer to respect the fallen and leave them at rest, at some point in time it no longer is a grave or resting place, but an archaeological site. The transition point is when intrigue and/or greed intersect with discovery. Considering the historical precedent of pillaging the graves of kings and cavemen, why would Everest be any different, especially when so many people are focused on it. Imagine the media circus and cover stories. Heros and fortunes will be made.
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Dick Erb
climber
June Lake, CA
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Feb 10, 2010 - 12:01pm PT
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Yes do not solve the mysteries lest there be no more mysteries to solve. Do not search for all knowledge for there will be no more to learn. Do not continue inventing or there will be nothing left to invent.
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Feb 10, 2010 - 12:03pm PT
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Reilly, the whereabouts of the luv chillen yes that is a good mystery. But I think it possible that they are the origins of the Oompa Loompas. Or maybe Tribbles. Either way let's all look away lest we see anything.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Feb 10, 2010 - 12:08pm PT
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Good post DMT
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Feb 10, 2010 - 12:19pm PT
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it's not all white space in this case though...
We know his body and the camera might be out there, we know parts of the story, and speculate about the rest. I wouldn't mind the story being more understood...and perhaps a better gasp and respect for what happened.
Who knows, in lots of cases the real story turns out to be more intriguing than anything conjured...
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Feb 10, 2010 - 12:21pm PT
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My personal feelinig is that if Irvine's body is ever found, a careful and respectful forensic search (on the spot) of his possessions is in order, then RIP.
JL
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 10, 2010 - 01:52pm PT
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I believe that the 1999 expedition did what it could to bury Mallory's body, using rocks. Which is more than can be said of others. A friend was up there last spring, and saw bodies everywhere, especially on the higher reaches of the ridge. People sit or lie or fall down, and don't get up. Pretty gruesome.
Has anyone asked Irvine's family about this? Would they like their ancestor's body to be found, and if so, what would they want done with it? A fine balance - there's a tiny chance that one or both of Mallory and Irvine got to the top, and if so, that there is surviving proof on Irvine's body. Which would make them even more famous. Balanced against whatever is done to find and examine the body - although it seems unlikely that it would be found now.
Ultimately it depends on what the Chinese government allows - they control that side of the mountain. If they see an opportunity to make money, or promote themeselves, or simply don't care, that may be that.
Of course, it's possible that the configuration of key areas of the upper northeast ridge has changed significantly since 1924. Pre-war photos aren't very clear. There might have been a significant rockfall in the 1938 - 1960 period, that made the second step and vicinity much harder. No one can prove it didn't happen, after all. (Parroting the local conspiracy theorists and believers...) In 1924, the first and second steps might have been a regular staircase...
The news about finding some of Shackleton's whisky brings up another aspect of this morbid subject. There's ongoing argument as to what actually happened to Scott, Wilson, Bowers, Oates and Evans. It's probably impossible now to find the bodies of Evans and Oates. However, the bodies of the others were buried in a known location. Given modern knowledge and technology, and a lot of money, it may be possible to find and uncover them. Movement of the Ross Ice Shelf is fairly well understood, which should narrow it down to perhaps a 10 km x 10 km area, or less. They were buried with a considerable amount of ferrous metals. With a good aerial magnetometer survey, it should be possible to locate the bodies. Just look for a significant anomaly in the right area - the only other possible anomalies in the ice shelf would be erratic boulders. The bodies are probably 20 - 30 m (or more?) down, but the shelf is several hundred m thick, or more. So it would take some serious excavating to get to them.
It seems most likely that they died from a combination of vitamin deficiency (e.g. scurvy) and malnutrition, and from generally having been a bit over their heads. Autopsies would quickly show what had happened, and even after almost a century, the bodies should be well-preserved.
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jstan
climber
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Feb 10, 2010 - 02:35pm PT
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Quite some time ago I proposed a plan for easily cleaning up this mountain. Give cargo nets to the sherpas (they are the ones who can actually work up there - right?) and transport them up to the areas to be cleared using Ericksson SkyCranes. As the nets are filled the cranes can come back, snag them and move out over the valley. To save fuel the cranes don't have actually to come down to unload. They just move out till they are directly over base camp. Once there they can release the trash even though they are still at nearly 30,000 feet altitude. The trash will go where it needs to go.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Feb 10, 2010 - 02:43pm PT
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Actually, even when you think you may have proved something, maybe you haven't. Piton Ron mentioned the Everett Ruess finding. More recent evidence has proven those remains not be Everett's.
Even if they find Irvine and a camera, maybe the camera with fake film was planted by Chris Bonington on a sneak expedition to prove that an Englishman was first to the top instead of a Kiwi.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 10, 2010 - 03:44pm PT
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I thought Tenzing Norgay was first to the top. Accompanied by that rangy Kiwi - you know, the porter who was good at carrying big loads and chopping steps.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Feb 10, 2010 - 09:09pm PT
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All of the American expeditions who have searched for Mallory and Irvine have conferred extensively with the families on their wishes. It was the wish of the Mallory family that a short Church of England committal service be done and so it was done by Conrad and companions before covering the body with rocks. I'm sure the Irvine family has also made their wishes known.
Meanwhile, interesting speculation about the Chinese moving things. I never heard that before.
The head of the Sherpa Mountaineering Assn. has said that at some point part of the cleaning of the mountain should be the removal of bodies.
The goddess who lives on Everest is not the mother goddess of the earth as the English translations say, but one of five goddess sisters who used to take human life mostly young men, as sacrifice, before being converted to Buddhism. Sometimes I wonder if they have not reverted to their old ways. Strange karma then that young men continue to sacrifice themselves.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Feb 10, 2010 - 09:48pm PT
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Is it not somewhat implied that when one embarks on a "public" feat of discovery - that one relents the notion of "privacy".
I tend to believe that had Irvine made it back alive- he would have embarked on a financially lucrative worldwind tour of his exploits. The fact that he died in his attempt does not recuse him of his duty.
Leave the body. Bring back the camera.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Feb 10, 2010 - 10:38pm PT
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Wow, what a fascinating mystery! Did you guys look at this, precisely HOW they have located what might be Irvine's body? Satellite forensics, and the vague outline of what might be a body on so forbidding a mountainscape? How cool is that?!
http://www.velocitypress.com/IrvineSearch.htm
Or how about this? PRECISELY what to do with the camera when you find it, how to transport it, and how to develop the film:
http://www.velocitypress.com/mallory_irvine.shtml#A127_Film
Imagine if they found the camera, developed the film, and there was a summit shot?! History would be rewritten!
By all means, treat Irvine's remains with dignity and according to the wishes of his family, but bring back the camera!
Hey - where's Conrad Wanker when you need his input?
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 10, 2010 - 10:48pm PT
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
You wrote this quote in the bible verses thread.
"Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue." Pr 17:28
Never, ever call Conrad a "wanker" again ......
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Feb 10, 2010 - 10:58pm PT
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Good grief, Werner - I speak in jest!
Then again, what do I know? I'm just a Big Wall Pavenu. Bwah-ha-h-ah-aha!!!111111111111
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Srbphoto
Trad climber
Kennewick wa
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Feb 10, 2010 - 11:05pm PT
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Why would lesbian Yetis need boy toys?
Take the camera and other artifacts (before they are stolen anyway) and bury the body on the mountain.
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John Morton
climber
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Feb 11, 2010 - 12:08am PT
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I am as fascinated as the next guy by these discoveries. Right up there with the plan to clone Jesus from DNA on the Shroud of Turin.
But I have a very strong sense of loss each time I see the disappearance of another frontier. The advance of knowledge doesn't compensate for it. Imagine when there were truly blank spaces on the maps of most continents, and how that would stir the adventurous soul.
John
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Feb 11, 2010 - 12:24am PT
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What Werner said.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Feb 11, 2010 - 12:39am PT
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I forgot to mention that the Sherpas say that one of the ways they were able to cross into Nepal 500 years ago, was the fact that there was so much more snow and so fewer crevasses then. In my own experience I have seen a local glacial lake in Rolwaling which was already the world's largest and deepest, double in size in only 20 years.
I think the supposition that the second step was a lot easier then, is almost certainly correct. It also seems that global warming may have been going on long before we in the West became aware of it.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Feb 11, 2010 - 08:54pm PT
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I got hold of Conrad, and he told me he'll chime in when he gets a moment. Definitely wanna get the take from the guy who found Mallory.
Also Conrad - weren't you and Leo up there? What happened with that?
And what is your personal opinion - any chance Mallory and/or Irvine might have summited Everest? Could the Second Step have been easier when snow-covered?
Cheers,
Pete
BWP
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Feb 11, 2010 - 09:48pm PT
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You know we have a Universe filled with mystery and the unknown. We have eternity ahead of us to figure it all out. We have an eternity of problems to figure out and work on.
By searching, striving to know, we advance and do better. Everyone loves a mystery, and the search to know is very addictive. It is what we do. If we searched for knowledge and scientific truths and never figured out anything, we would have given up out of desperation a long, long time ago. "Seek and you will find" is a very powerful promise and addictive drug for the mind.
It is a good thing that we figure out some mysteries. If we didn't figure out some mysteries and have success, then why would we ever bother?
I would like to known the whole truth of Irving and Mallory on Everest. It won't deminish the mystery in my mind at all. The more I know about the story, the truth, and the possibilites, the more I get interested in the drama and the complete story.
I think Conrad's team was very respectful of Mallory and the family. I have no problem with what they did. We all want to know, and as a result we now know some of the mystery. Some of the puzzle is now figured out.
I would like to see it finished.
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pulthru
Trad climber
Wenatchee, WA
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Feb 11, 2010 - 09:51pm PT
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I had a very interesting conversation with Conrad at the Lander Climbing Festival the summer after the discovery of Mallory. He was immensely respectful and deeply thoughtful about the experience. Definately not a wanker!
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Conrad
climber
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Feb 12, 2010 - 12:32am PT
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Hi campers. Hope this finds you well and enjoying the good things in life. The 'stand' is nice in that the big E and this story don't often show up. Any how; my two cents worth.
Tom Holzel is an amazing historian, who along with Audrey Saukeld set the stage for the 99 expedition with their book "First on Everest". This fine book was a reference for our group and the final chapter with the hypothesis set our imaginations running. I have read his latest paper referencing the high resolution images of the north side of Everest. Commendable work and true diligence on his part.
The lump could be Irvine, it could be another body, it could be an abandoned pack or a lump of snow. It might be helpful to have several images to reference to compare various snow levels. A picture mid winter in a dry year (as this winter is) might be most telling.
Did they summit in '24?
Highly improbable but not impossible. The Second Step was a cliff in '24 and was not snowed in. The tea planters on Darjeeling noted the winter of 23-24 as being exceptionally dry. When coupled with the image by Somervell of Norton below the Yellow Band taken on 4 June '24 one can see it is very dry. They would have had to free climb the step (pitons and biners only came about in the 30s and were not seen as sporting by the English) and then down climb it. All this at altitude.
This is the Second Step on the 14th of June 07. We pulled the ladder with permission from the Chinese. I led the bit with a # 4 cam placed with a 2 x 4 stack to make it fit. It actually worked. I thought it to be .10 a in mountain boots, but Leo thought it to be 5.9. He ought to know - quite the gun he is. Might just be the highest technical climbing in the world, but WGAF, eh?
Respect.
In 99 we preformed a commital service at the request of the family. We read Psalms 103. No matter how much dignity and humility we approached this situation with we were bound to ruffle a few feathers. Paupers in Haiti after an earthquake (10) or mass burials in Kosovo (99) is journalism. Images of national heros being desecrated is taboo. Anyhow ... my main detractors are always genial in person yet can be vitrolic in print.
Rubbish
The trash on the mountain is aesthetic in nature. Not pleasing to the eye, yet not nearly as significant as pollution that affects the quality of life. The authorities demand a bond that goes a ways to making sure people clean up after themselves.
The early pioneers on Everest were commendable in what they were able to achieve. By keeping their efforts first in our minds we do them a great honor.
Mallory's timeless quote:
"Have we vanquished an enemy? None but ourselves."
Sums up climbing.
Leo and me chilling just below the summit, 14 June 07.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Feb 12, 2010 - 12:37am PT
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Thank you Conrad.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Feb 12, 2010 - 01:18pm PT
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Conrad,
Thanks.
And this is why I love the "SuperTaco," "the virtual camp-fire," warts and all.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Feb 12, 2010 - 01:24pm PT
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I'm with Dingus on leaving him there. Though i think if he was spotted it should be confirmed.
Actually... our opinions on the latter really don't matter. "They" will go look.
As far as the camera goes if it's found bring it down. I'm all for a good mystery but there's controversy revolving around great legends and I think it doesn't their legacy justice to know what really happened.
But then... yes.. what do I know anyway...
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Dick Erb
climber
June Lake, CA
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Feb 12, 2010 - 02:01pm PT
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Some mysteries may be solved and then we move on, but quite often, particularly in science more knowledge leaves to ever deeper mysteries. John Morton's post does how ever stir feelings in me.
I am as fascinated as the next guy by these discoveries. Right up there with the plan to clone Jesus from DNA on the Shroud of Turin.
But I have a very strong sense of loss each time I see the disappearance of another frontier. The advance of knowledge doesn't compensate for it. Imagine when there were truly blank spaces on the maps of most continents, and how that would stir the adventurous soul.
I too have have lamented the disappearance of vast unknown spaces. We humans have had these vast lands with us for thousands of generations. Our culture has developed in the midst of open space, but then so quickly, within the last several generations the last great wildernesses have all but disappeared. What is frightening about this is that the limit has become visible. An ever expanding population cannot continue to thrive on a finite planet with an economy based on consumption.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 12, 2010 - 02:06pm PT
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Mons Olympicus is next,..
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Feb 12, 2010 - 02:28pm PT
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Dick,
On the surface of things it does seem like we now know the Earth really well, but actually that isn't even really true. There are many unknowns and blank places on the map all over the Earth. Yea, maybe we have remotely sensed it, but that isn't the same as actually having been there.
We probably know more about the surface of the Moon than we known exactly what is at the bottom of our oceans. We have probably only seen with our own eyes perhaps 1/10,000 of the ocean floor, maybe even less.
The underworld is still full of unknowns. There are miles and miles of caves and caverns that have never been explored, and many are yet to be discovered.
We haven't climbed all summits or peaks on Earth. Not even close. There are a plethora of first ascents to do the world over. Every time we do a first acsent we are on virgin ground where no man has been before. That is pretty darn cool if you think about it.
There are many areas of the surface of the Earth that have seen very few people and small regions perhaps none at all. Yes, these areas are really, really remote.
Don't get me started on Space and other planetary bodies within our Solar System. Do you know just in our Solar System there are perhaps easily over 300+ planetary bodies: planetisimals, protoplanets, dwarf planets, moons, + 8 planets etc. And that is not even counting the thousands perhaps millions of asteriods within the Asteroid Belt and throughout the Solar System.
We have just really begun to explore. There is soooo much to do. It really is overwhelming to think about.
So, we just got to get out there and do it!
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Conrad
climber
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Feb 12, 2010 - 02:30pm PT
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Even if the camera is found it was cloudy on the afternoon of June 8th 1924. Photographic proof would be hard to substantiate as the summit pics would be the proverbial inside of a ping pong ball.
Descending climbers, injured with snowblindness being helped by Sherpas. '24
Camp three, '24. The ice towers are no longer present. Sen Inhofe: the proof is in the lack of ice.
Mallory's last communication.
To the shining memory of Mallory and Irvine.
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John Morton
climber
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Feb 12, 2010 - 10:29pm PT
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To follow on Dick's and my own personal feelings about frontiers ... I for one sometimes choose to go places in deliberate ignorance of I might encounter. The map might as well be blank if you don't look at it. Once there is a guidebook or a topo, for many it becomes a pursuit of every possible angle to optimize the undertaking. Of course the first ascencionist gets a taste of the unknown, and such things as canyoneering have attracted those with a taste for it.
It's a little embarrassing to play the nostalgic geezer here, but it was sort of fun when you had to ask around to locate Valley routes, and what information you got turned out to be wrong. (But there was no choice - I would have paid good money for a list of 5.8s so I could work on my crack and chimney skills.)
John
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Feb 13, 2010 - 05:31pm PT
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Conrad
Do you have a recent pic of Camp 3 ice to compare to the one you posted?
All the satellite photo enhancement and interpretation in the world will never substitute for going out there and looking some more. As much as I appreciate the mysteries of the mountains, we humans always crave filling in gaps in our history.
One interesting thing I gleaned from Conrad and Roberts' book was the clothing they were wearing in '24. On first reading: primitive and wholly inadequate. Yet it certainly did work.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Feb 13, 2010 - 05:45pm PT
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Jesus jstan!
That looks more like a genetic cross between Herbert and Becky? Better check your source.
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jstan
climber
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Feb 13, 2010 - 06:00pm PT
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Guido:
The text mentioned that the DNA did indicate their hair was red. They did not say that the DNA also suggested our common view that the Neabderthal had a prominently protruding skull at the eye sockets, was wrong. You are correct there may be some artistic license here.
I am happy to wait for them to be cloned. Last week a Japanese lab announced a new process wherein they could take any cell type and go directly to making nerve cells from it without going through a stem cell configuration. We need only have a Neanderthal specimen exposed by a receeding ice cap somewhere and we will be in business.
I do fear what we may do when the cloned individual tells us that they had indeed tried unregulated capitalism but, to their dismay, had found it not to be workable - long term.
In all probability, we would then either lynch him or crucify him.
Such an event would remind me of the best dialog Dennis Hopper was ever given. In Waterworld as the $100,000,000 set representing a huge ship was being blown up, Hopper with a frustrated look complains
"Not AGAIN."
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TomT
Trad climber
Aptos.
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The comments above about not using a guidebook to find adventure can work. I went to Peru in the 1970s to the Cordillera Blanca with Glen Garland, having done no research into guidebooks. We had the topo's and just picked out mountains to climb once we saw them. It was great. We did run into other expeditions and they told us what they were doing, but ignorance can be bliss.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Great! Now his widow can get that pension they have been withholding until there is positive proof he's dead.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Conrad
Great information. You did a superb job, as usual.
Jstan--AWESOME!!!!
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jogill
climber
Colorado
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The lump could be Irvine, it could be another body, it could be an abandoned pack or a lump of snow.
My wager would be on a lump of snow. Kind of expensive to find out, though.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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I do a bit of digital image analysis as a day job so I read the article with interest.
The rule of thumb for resolving a feature based on its spatial characterics is that the sampling interval should be about 1/3 the minimum dimension of the feature being detected. Otherwise you get aliases, the most popular being Moire patterns. That being said, the sampling interval should be less than a foot in order to detect with confidence a human shape. I don't think they have that resolution.
Then again, when one looks hard enough for something, trying to snag the signal through the noise, and the image is very noisey, the minds eye will see what it want to see.
Some will see a human shape with an ice axe.
Some will see a lump of snow.
I see a duck and a kitty and a puppy.
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| Messages 1 - 58 of total 58 in this topic |
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