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Fargo
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 6, 2002 - 11:20am PT
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What's the scoop on Glacier Point Apron?
Can we climb all over it or what should be avoided?
Can you advise me of some great routes without death factor?
Jim Bob be serious!
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WankerSkanker
Novice climber
Bumfook Egypt
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2002 - 11:36am PT
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The scoop: Cool slab and crack routes, but you already knew that.
Safe?: It's had huge spontaneous rockfall twice in the last several years. But you already knew that too.
Bottom line: Make your own choice, it's your ass on the line. I usually make atleast one trip to the Apron every time I go to the valley, but I don't hang out there longer than necessary. Spring winter and fall might increase the chances of rockfall due to freeze-thaw cycles. I've always been there in the summer. It's hard to get the full valley experience without climbing some superclassic pitches like Mr. Natural.
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Fargo
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2002 - 12:48pm PT
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Thanks guys.
F.
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Fargo
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2002 - 12:55pm PT
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Chris M. Is the danger (as well as liability) aspect why there are no climbs from this area in Ultra Classic's?
F.
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Minerals
Novice climber
Biotite, K(Mg,Fe)3(AlSi3O10)(OH)2
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The Apron itself is composed of Half Dome Granodiorite and the rock above (Firefall Wall) is Tonalite of Glacier Point. This tonalite has a high biotite content (black, platy mica). When exposed to surface conditions, biotite weathers and absorbs water and expands. Because of this, the rock type is more likely to fracture, thus causing more rock falls (notice smooth surface of the Apron compared to the broken, blocky, and jointed surface of the Firefall Wall). Rock falls will continue to occur; equilibrium always wins.
So, do you feel lucky?
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prof
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2002 - 01:49pm PT
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I hate to say it, but you are probably asking for it if you climb on the Apron. Just pretend the place doesn't exist. Don't think that being there outside of a freeze/thaw cycle will help... the death in the rockfall on Mr. Natural was in late-June 1999. It was an 85 degree, sunny day (I was there).
Given that there have been two MAJOR rockfall events in the last 8 years, then if you go spend 6-8 hours climbing on the Apron, then you have about a 1 in 5000 chance of being up on the Apron during a major rockfall event (assuming one event every four years). And that doesn't include all the smaller releases that happen all the time.
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Copperbottom
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2002 - 02:08pm PT
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Wow you are so clever Copper Head!
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Fargo
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2002 - 02:11pm PT
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Look forward to April Chris!
Thanks Prof. appreciate your concern.
I'll take all into account.
Thanks again.
F.
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wondering
Novice climber
chossville
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2002 - 05:26pm PT
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Uh, what happened with the death on Mr Natural exactly?
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yinyang
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2002 - 07:15pm PT
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If you are a weekend cragger it is pretty much a death trap.
If you are an aspiring alpinist it makes for a pretty good training ground.
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noname
Novice climber
erewrwe
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 7, 2002 - 02:01am PT
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many years ago I saw it coming down, few years ago some else died, stay away from that area , there are to many other places to climb.
Do not let them clean up your body
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radical
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 7, 2002 - 08:11am PT
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I used to think not climbing there was such a knee jerk reaction. I thought rockfall could happen anytime, and who cares if there is one rockfall in an area, seemed to me that would decrease the percentage chance of it happening in that area again.
Then I climbed The Good Book and realized it takes a long time for rock to settle when a a large piece lets go. I personally had a large missle just miss my head, at the belay below the dihedral. And there are still lots of insecure rocks that are obvious up there.
I wonder what the rockfall zone looks like on the Apron. Lots of little and big rocks still waiting to fall?
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apronless
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 7, 2002 - 10:36am PT
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I don't know Chris - Consensus that it is safe?? I am dubious that this is a widely held opinion. May I suggest consulting a geologist.
About five years ago, I saw several large blocks drop just to the right of cold fusion.
Haven't been back since, though I am frequently tempted.
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Fargo
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 7, 2002 - 10:43am PT
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Well then, this might need a bit more thought.
What do you think Chris?
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ak
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 7, 2002 - 10:57am PT
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My partner and I climbed the Harry Daley route in early July. We were looking for the Grack, and had gotten a late start, but saw a minor rockfall just as we were approaching. It was large enough to send up small dust clouds, but pretty scary. We couldn't tell exactly where the rockfall was, it might have been even further to the left of the Grack, but we decided to stay away from that side- hence, the awesome Harry Daley route.
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Dingus
Advanced climber
Bend
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 7, 2002 - 12:49pm PT
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I sawa big one in mid September '99, we were on the S. Face WC. and it is really amazing. I still climb there though, because there are good cracks ofcourse. Certainly a direct hit from rock fall would end a good day for you but so would getting in a car crash on I-5, right?
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Sac Climber
Intermediate climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 7, 2002 - 03:43pm PT
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The big rock falls get all the attention, but there are a lot more small rock falls around and these do far more climbers in. I was at the base of Butterballs a couple of weeks ago when a climber was killed on the far right side of the cookie. Had no idea at the time, just another medium small rock fall.
I am curious about the Apron also. How far to the right has anybody climbed? Does Mr. Natural still exist as a route? Anybody crazy enough to go see?
steve
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Matt
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 7, 2002 - 03:55pm PT
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I climbed Mr Natural twice last Spring.
The 3 star 5.11 face climb below it (Green Dragon, maybe?) is apparently much shorter now, but Mr. Natural was perfect, and I lived to tell the tale!
btw-
My beta over there is don't dick around! Don't chit-chat, don't wait for a climb, rack up at the car, just get in and get out. At least you feel like you are doing what you can to be safe.
(safer to be climbing in an active rockfall zone than living in some parts of the world =)
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trouble shooter
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 7, 2002 - 05:38pm PT
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just cut and paste the link
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Copperhead
Novice climber
Doh!
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 7, 2002 - 05:42pm PT
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Hmmmmmmm. Must have done something wrong. Links don't work. Oh well, copy and paste if interested.
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rock fan
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2002 - 01:30pm PT
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Really appreciate the cool info Copperhead. Most of that stuff you posted, I didn't know existed. Don't let a few brainless idiots stop you from posting more of this stuff. RW
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Nor Cal
Intermediate climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2002 - 02:38pm PT
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I got beamed this fall on GPA, several small rocks came my way, one hit me in the side (no major damage) and the others just missed my friends.
Is it dangerous? well that is up to you to decide.
One thing I do know is that its not getting much sun this time of the year.
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Lambone
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2002 - 06:49pm PT
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I'll second the Rixons Pinicle warning, I almost got taken out solo aiding up there a long time ago. Too bad cause it's a great starter aid route...
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ouija
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 8, 2002 - 06:53pm PT
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Yeah the best 5.4-5.6s are up on the Apron, perfect for the new guide book. But death is very bad for business, not to mention a lawsuit.
How's the insurance, Chris?
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Nor Cal
Intermediate climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2002 - 11:52am PT
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We were on the Grack!
Safe or not? I think its safer than the drive on 120!
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DS
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2002 - 02:02pm PT
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We'll just have to come up with a new little icon that indicates higher than average rock fall potential. That's no problem.
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WankerSkanker
Novice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 11, 2002 - 12:00pm PT
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Mid Summer 2000, my partner was beaned by small rockfall while racking for Cold Fusion. Very small release, nothing bigger than grapefruit sized.
Mid Summer 2002, I got hit with a small rock on Harry Daley, again very small release (five or six gravel sized pieces) was probably just junk blown off by the wind.
I don't consider these incidences even rockfall...go climb in the Tetons for a while, sounds like a bowling alley there. Personally, I think you've got a better chance at getting brained on Committment because of the traffic and loose crap at the top/walk off
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dougs510
Social climber
down south
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I did the Grack Center 2 summers ago.... great climbing... there were several parties climbing on it. I'm w/ matt, get in and out quick, but it's worth it.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Bodega, CA
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Hey Chris, Has ASCA replaced any of the old bolts on GPA? Those are probably more of a hazard than the rockfall. Several Years ago I did Point Beyond - Angels Approach- to Lucifers ledge. The rappels were terrifying. Lots of old mank up there.
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Rudder
Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
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I see on mountain project they list 43 routes on glacier point apron. They list the cow routes, but not "an udder way" nor "dead baby." Have those been erased by rock fall (an udder way is in the middle of the cow routes), or just aren't noted? I did those way way back in the day so they represent some nostalgia. Who knows, if they're there and safe, might even get back to them some day. :) Gotta be easier than in the boots I was wearing at the time. haha
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| Messages 1 - 38 of total 38 in this topic |
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