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MSmith
Mountain climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 28, 2006 - 09:26am PT
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Tom,
I step away from the computer for a few hours and come back to 30 minutes of new posts ending with a message that the window of opportunity to post to the WoS III thread has passed!
Some criticisms of WoS popped up in the former thread which were pretty well fleshed out in the two previous threads, but a couple of new thoughts might deserve a response:
“Apparently there are crumbling hook placements that may no longer be useable.”
The Great Slab is the highest quality rock on planet earth (GPA possibly excepted). Nearly all of our hooks were on ledges less than 1/4” wide. Sub 1/4" ledges don’t support hooks if there is a hint of crumble. The Slab has been curing since the Ice Age glaciers receded. The rock is very stable.
The Lost Topo™, where is it?
Because of the scrutiny and flak we received, our topo made what was undoubtedly the most detailed accounting of holes for a Valley climb. We gave a photocopy to YOSAR before leaving the Valley that summer. The Meyers/Reid Guide topo was adapted by them directly from that original. I think the Meyers/Reid topo is certainly sufficient (add some more heads than what it calls for), but if it doesn’t do it for you, send Meyers and Reid an email and ask them to dust off their original and fax you a copy.
Pete: I’ve got Leeper Narrows if you need them.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Apr 28, 2006 - 11:29am PT
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ok pete, I have never met you, but I am pullin for you. Werner says he has a case of beer for you. If you pull it off I will up the anty another case of beer! Dont know if I can be there for the successful celebration. But I guarantee I will send werner the money for the beer (trust me I work for the government HAHA)! But there is a catch! You have to post pics and an updated topo, and crabby has to be there too!
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Apr 28, 2006 - 11:39am PT
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uh oh pete...Two cases of beer and a case of fin du monde! We are pullin for ya pete. However, me thinks a couple cases before hand might help with the decision? Let me know, but again pics are required!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 28, 2006 - 11:41am PT
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And I'll ship a case down to Werner or someone for you if I can't bring it myself. Someone has to get back on that baby and you seem like just the guy with the patience for the job.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Same place as you, man...... (WB)
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Apr 28, 2006 - 11:42am PT
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Hey WoS guys:
Am I remembering correctly that you had some sort of "angle bracket" or something that got your ledges to hang on a more vertical plane on the slab???
Please advise....
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Apr 28, 2006 - 11:46am PT
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Fish, I appreciated your last post on thread 3. Thanks.
I am, however, baffled on many levels by the final post on thread 3, so perhaps someone can enlighten me. IF the route can ever go free, at least the remaining flakes were solid as of almost 25 years ago. ;) If the idea is that the hammer-taps somehow invalidate a free ascent, then I guess a world full of FFAs that ascend old aid lines (like Serenity Crack) are invalid. Oh well.
Baffled, I tell you. Baffled.
Pete, there you have it: beer and better, AND both Mark and I will contribute Leeper Narrows. How much better can it get??? Time to talk to Christian Bale. :)
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Apr 28, 2006 - 11:48am PT
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Yeah, Fish, we designed what we called "extenders," which held the apex of our ledges out from the wall about 18 inches. If you want a design (and after quite a few iterations and, shall we say, extended tests, ours ended up pretty nice), we can talk about some sort of deal.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Apr 28, 2006 - 12:01pm PT
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madbolter, I have some old leeper hooks that are pointy, are those the ones you used? A very small radius to a point?
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Darryl Cramer
Social climber
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Apr 28, 2006 - 12:03pm PT
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Jake -
You've been losing weight. You and Pete should team up. I have some narrow leepers.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Apr 28, 2006 - 12:07pm PT
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Finally, Pete, I've been looking in detail at a Talon, and I don't think it will work. Even if you grind one of the hooks down to a small point, the problem is that the hook radius is just too large. You don't want any outward pull on the flakes at all. A Leeper Narrow pulls almost completely straight down (although top-looping does introduce some outward pull that can be minimized by standing on one foot only, with that foot turned sideways to the wall). Outward pull is the bane of the flakes on that route, so if you gear up for it, we will get you a couple of Leeper Narrows.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Apr 28, 2006 - 12:08pm PT
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Right, golsen. Dems da puppies.
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Ouch!
climber
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Apr 28, 2006 - 12:40pm PT
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That beer you guys are offering Pete. Has it been pre-consumed?
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Apr 28, 2006 - 12:46pm PT
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....Lurking, with only Part II as of yet unread.....
Mostly, I haven't a clue what the hell you all are talking about, but it sounds like, if PTPP takes on this route, a good time to be had, esecially for me.... sitting and watching the attempt through binocs while safely on the ground....
Sounds like a partee....and if it happens, I want to be there. This, in iteself, will allow me the excuse for heading to Yosemite..... Go Pete!!!
Maybe the FA party can come up behing PTPPs team to make the 3rd run....
I am not sure if I am learning anything, reading these WoS novel threads, but....back I go, a dedicated Lurker.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Same place as you, man...... (WB)
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Apr 28, 2006 - 12:48pm PT
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Happiii:
the entire plan of attack along with dates and times and what you must bring will be forwarded to you as an RTF file
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MSmith
Mountain climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 28, 2006 - 12:57pm PT
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Fish,
Our extenders are really kick, easy to make, and lightweight. Don't leave ground without it.™ I had one fall behind Truck Stop on Horse Chute. Really torqued me. Someone with some ingenuity might be able to fish it out.
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Gene
climber
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Apr 28, 2006 - 01:11pm PT
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Is this the narrow Leeper hook that's needed? It's marketed as the narrow Leeper Logan hook and is available on line.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Apr 28, 2006 - 01:37pm PT
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Yes, Gene, that's the best hook for the route, and it will see a lot of action there.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Apr 28, 2006 - 01:39pm PT
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It works best to tie an overhand knot in a SMALL loop of 1/2 inch webbing, then push the loop through the hole in the hook from the back (outside) to the inside, so that the loop hangs down from inside (like, against the rock), with the knot jamming up in the hole on the back side.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 28, 2006 - 02:05pm PT
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Fin du Monde?! Merde alors! I didn't know you Merricans even knew what that stuff is! I had some at Christmastime - great stuff!
Spoken in Quebecois accent:
"Eet ees, 'ow you say, strong stuff, non?"
Can you read the 9% on the label?!
So I gotta start adding this up, now:
We've got the 2-4 from Werner. [Hosers say "2-4" not "case"]
We've got another 2-4 from Golsen!
And Healyje's in there for yet another!
And man, if that ain't enough, we've got a 2-4 of Fin du Monde from Dingus!
Can we get a couple of bottles of nice Napa cabernet? I'll have to ask for something a bit more ooh-la-la than Two Buck Chuck or Four Buck Fred - maybe something in the six-dollar range from Trader Joe's?
I haven't yet heard the confirmation of a partner, but I think I need one or two who like big wall camping, and know that it's all about the journey, not the destination. [HINT]
Thanks for the info on the crumbly hook placements. I might have one of those old Leeper hooks lying around in my basement. The reason it's in my basement in Canada and not on my lead rack in California is because [in the past] I didn't like them! I have preferred a Talon most of the time. So are we talking about the little Leepers with the POINTED end, like a bathook? You don't mean the little Leepers with the flat end, do you? I can't believe a Talon wouldn't work as well, but you guys are the ones who climbed it, so we shall have to see. I'd best be well-equipped.
I will GREEDILY accept offers for hooks, so I can leave them for pro! Here's a picture of me leading the notorious fourth pitch of Jolly Roger with three Talons duct-taped down for pro. I would most assuredly do this on WOS! I'll make sure you get your hooks back, no problem. The whole world will know I have 'em anyway.
Those ledge extender thingies sound like they rock! Could we borrow a couple-three of those? Do you have any photos of the things in use?
We are probably in pretty good shape for beer, non? In fact, we will now probably need help drinking it! I think we should make a party out of this. I might actually make it up. Then again, I could die a flaming wreck and you could all call me a pussy.
Either way, it's a guaranteed adventure and a guaranteed party. Like, we won't be hurting for beer, eh? But no Ipod thingies - we want a REAL ghetto blaster - a nice loud one.
You'll have to come along up to the base and join the party, happiegrrrl! We'll see how "happie" you are with a big-ass pig on your back, or if you will say "grrr" instead.
Do you guys think that some of those edges that held you twenty-five years from now won't hold today because they have exfoliated? Should we bring some Oil of Olay exfoliant cream? Holy! You said quarter-inch flakes. We used to dreeeeeeeeam of quarter-inch flakes!
Mark and Richard, don't get the idea I'm a big-time drinker or anything, because I'm not. I'm actually quite a lightweight. One can of Olde English on an empty stomach and I'm about done for. That's why we'll need help.
How tall are you guys anyway? Did you make a lot of sick topstep moves?
Dingus - can I borrow a pair of ring-o-lettes so I can have two dangling like you use? I only have a single pair, and on tricky placements it would be hugely easier having a second pair to dangle. I'll make sure you get 'em back.
Hey! Does Fin du Monde come in cans??? I've only seen it in bottles. We might need to use that for the Meadows party.
I will read through the first two long posts as soon as I get some more time, try to separate out the choss, and most likely I will have a few more questions for you. Thanks for following along with these threads as your feedback is invaluable. I'll take all the beta I can get! Damn, I'm wishing I had that book sent to me here in Canada. Now that I've paid for the thing, don't suppose you guys have a copy you could email me?
Cheers and beers,
Pete
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