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Anastasia
climber
Not here
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 11, 2009 - 01:43am PT
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Why is it that when I want to go climbing, visit a person to check out an area, etc... Most takes it as some kind of "come on" despite telling them plainly that I am not interested in any physical interactions?
How am I really suppose to conduct myself? Please tell me what is the appropriate procedure: Should I only climb with women? Always bring a boyfriend, etc? Is being single, traveling without male/female companionship a big no no?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Mar 11, 2009 - 01:57am PT
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It is not just women who have that problem, Ana.
And regardless of which side of the issue you're coming from, as long as a polite "No thanks" is accepted, then the problem disappears.
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10b4me
Ice climber
Rustys Saloon
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Mar 11, 2009 - 01:59am PT
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Anastasia,
you just have to be very implicit that you just want to climb. ignore anybody that comes on to you, and last but not least, tell them that your bf will be there soon.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Mar 11, 2009 - 02:11am PT
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My two cents.
It can be paradoxical. Women want to be thought of as attractive, they want attention, sometimes they even want to be hit on, yet not all the time. Men often are incapable of picking up hints and need to be bashed on the head over and over and over again. They need to be more sensitive, yet if they are too sensitive, then society laughs at them. They get in trouble for too much sexual energy and for not enough. It is a funny life.
I'm with Rox. Decide that the majority of men will want to bed you at some point or another, even the married ones, and then learn to deal with it. ( please understand that I am not saying that all men are pigs, many men can respect the marriage relationship or the monogamous relationship, and do, but they still often have desires. They just don't act on them. )
Humor often works, but it is wise to have a big stick as a back up and never be too attached to how relations will work out. The key is to make friends with people that understand respect. If a man or woman doesn't understand respect, then they aren't worth being friends with.
Beyond that. Ignore most of what others think of you unless it has to do with being unloving or unkind. Then pay attention and look to see if it is true.
Women have the short stick in the modern world, though I do think that it is getting better. But like racism, humankind still has a long way to go towards making things truly equal.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
here to eternity
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Mar 11, 2009 - 02:24am PT
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That is a tough one Anastasia. I have to agree with Roxjox. We're all generalizing here, but I don't think most guys are mean-spirited in wanting to connect with a woman who wants to connect with them in a non-physical manner (but there are some creeps out there). As a group, there is a tendency toward horn-dogism. Some hormone or something kicks in to convince a guy that if she is approaching him, she must want to hook up.
But, if you can shut down the hormones a bit (not necessarily easily from an intellectual point of view), it's pretty clear to see that many woman are not "in the hunt" as men can be (at least not as much of the time as men seem be... lol). They are just seeking and needing something different.
I think a lot of it is wiring, but somehow, it strikes me as a bit sad. As others have noted things are changing, though slowly (or maybe in fits and starts?). Maybe it has to do with ego and the thinking that goes along with this: "the way I see the world IS the way everyone else must see the world." But that can be applied to both sexes equally, that's for sure!
I think if you try to respect and see what the other person is seeing/wanting, then a deeper and more rich relationship can develop (and that can simply be a deep and rich climbing relationship, nothing more). Perhaps after a good while it could grow to be a physical connection. But that usually can only happen if the expectation of a physical relationship is not a prerequisite, paradoxically.
Of course, this goes both ways sometimes. I remember quite a while back I was new to SoCal and connected with a woman via a climbing bulletin board. I was seeking people to climb with... that's it. We decided to meet up JT with a couple of other casual acquaintances of hers. She was very clear to me that she wasn't looking for any kind of relationship other than climbing. This turned out to be a kind of subterfuge. After I very innocently chatted glowingly and a lot about my fiancee and kept talking about our life together, she quickly lost complete interest in me once she realized I wasn't in the hunt. Pretty much ignored me. The other guys who were single (at least I think they claimed to be) got all the attention. Dopey me just wanted to climb! :-) Well, you find out who people are pretty quickly sometimes and that's a good way for it to happen (rather than later).
Good luck to you.
Fletch
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Mar 11, 2009 - 02:51am PT
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I was going to say that one could try SueV's tactic of being meaner then a constipated drill sargeant, but then I realized that that wouldn't work because in my horn dog days I fiddled with more then one snarky beotch. So I guess that one doesn't work. haha..
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wayne w
Trad climber
the nw
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:05am PT
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Tami...tell us what you really think about SueV's post! Haa!
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Fletcher
Trad climber
here to eternity
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Mar 11, 2009 - 03:10am PT
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Tami, you are a treasure... well said once again.
Now where the hell did my Y chromosome go... I thought it was right hear next to the Clapper™.
Fletch
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AbeFrohman
Trad climber
new york, NY
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Mar 11, 2009 - 07:46am PT
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Its the Curse of Hotness.
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Mar 11, 2009 - 08:48am PT
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Anastasia,
Hope you're not stuck climbing with knuckleheads. There are still a lot of us dudes out here that are not that way.
I recently climbed with a female who basically told me that i was lucky to be climbing with a hot chic. I wasn't quite sure what she was referring to. Hot looking, or hot climber?
I didn't feel that way about either. I just wanted to climb.
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AllezAllez510
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Mar 11, 2009 - 09:05am PT
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If we could get more women into the sport it would be less of a problem. I can imagine if I was a girl I would not want to go into a gym, as a beginner, and see a bunch of ripped, shirtless, "bolderers" flexing and grunting their way up a plastic wall...or would I?
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justthemaid
climber
Los Angeles
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Mar 11, 2009 - 09:10am PT
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I assume this concerns new areas/new people? Locally- you got no stress partners baby. Call me anytime. Let's set some play dates now that we have longer days!
My personal experience. I tried climbing with only women. It doesn't work. Generally (not always) I find all female groups to be less motivated and WAY flakier for some reason. Super serious female climbers are often not a whole lot of fun to hang out with.. After a lot of aggravation I gave upon that tactic. If climbing is your goal. Men tend to get a lot more of it done.
My tactic with new male partners:
1.) Act COMPLETELY oblivious (no matter how obvious they are) and
2.) Mention your BF often.
They'll give up and climb, or they'll give up and go away. If they push you to the point of having to say something directly to their face the guy's a dumbass.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Mar 11, 2009 - 09:16am PT
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Some women just seem to get more consistent persistence from guys than others. They may have a certain beauty that is just captivating enough that guys are willing to be asses just because they can't help themselves.
These women really do seem to get pestered. BUT - sometimes there is something those women are giving off, too. Some might call it simple friendliness.... But I believe there is something more happening. Something subtle, but still - something more. Its an aura of openness.
I know this from being one that doesn't have that openness. Half the time if a guy is thinking anything with me, it goes right over my head. I don't even NOTICE enough to realize they are trying to get an 'in' 90% of the time.
When I was younger, I had guys turn on the sidewalk and actually say things like "I NEED to meet you. I'll never see you again!" and then yell "Pleeeeease?" as I kept my pace.
Damn....why didn't I know then what I know now!
And when it's so blatant even I can't miss it, it is to the point that you've GOT to know the guy is willing to be laughed off.... Unfortunately, apparently there are legends passed from patriarchal predecessors throughout the eons that this sort of approach occasionally lands one. So the method continues.
Being a bitch doesn't work. You'll still have to contend with the ones who like it like that, the ones who relish the challenge, and the ones who get mean.... But I don't think Anastasia could be a bitch anyway.
Announcing that "This is just climbing!" before you've even gone climbing is not only awkward but can put a negative energy in the mix.
Most guys accept a 'no' and that no should be appropriate to the situation, whether it's acting oblivious, saying "I'm not interested," or whatever. The ones who don't accept that no, even when it's escalated? Well - I think you have to decide what you want to do, in continuing to associate with such people. Is their "attention" worth what you are getting from the situation? because - you are ALWAYS getting something. If not - THEN you need to look at yourself and find out why you would allow yourself to participate in such unequal relationships. Better to know as early on in life as possible. These things tend to take a long - really long - time to work through.
You just have to find your way, Ana. What works for one won't work for you. You shouldn't HAVE to watch what you're wearing, or think about how your words/body language comes off. But some women go that route. Even so - does a burkha stop a guy? Hell no! Not if there are sexy eyes, flirty eyes peeking out that miniscule opening!
But - climbing just with women? Great if you can get a good partner whose goals work with yours, and who you trust enough to climb with. Crossing off men as partners will make that possibility a lot - lot - smaller.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Mar 11, 2009 - 09:24am PT
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Ana, don't tell them about (you have) a boy friend if you do not. Lying is never a good way to start a relationship, even a harmless, platonic, climbing friendship.
Good luck and stay true to your intentions.
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justthemaid
climber
Los Angeles
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Mar 11, 2009 - 09:31am PT
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I'm not suggesting subterfuge.
Last I heard she had a real one.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Mar 11, 2009 - 09:52am PT
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Sorry, I stand corrected.
Unless there is a ring on her finger, or obvious signs of "marriage", most guys (the ones we are talking about here) will take the BF LINE only to the next station, after that, it goes out the window.
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reddirt
climber
Elevation 285 ft
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Mar 11, 2009 - 09:58am PT
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It's not a hard & fast rule, but I often climb w/ guys that are married, sometimes w/ kids. 2 fold benefit: It's not a deterrent to come on's & what not but counts for something... and they prolly have a bit more at stake & might be less likely to do anything silly, ie more likely to dbl chk knots, anchors, etc.
edit: Anastasia- wanna climb? your place is prolly better than mine ; P
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Mar 11, 2009 - 10:02am PT
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so you want to go climbing.
With a new partner? To a new area?
What is the person's motivation for going with you? Are you a better climber? A more knowledgeable climber? Do you know the area and share projects?
I only mention this because as a dude, if you want another guy to show you around... good luck. Because climbers often have their own agenda. They want to do the climbs they want to do. A day of free guided touring? Sure it happens once in a while, I'd bet much less often for guys that gals.
So I guess you can do the math on that one.
The other option (what I did when I wanted to go to a new area) is just to take one of your existing partners. Then you go to the new area. Then you climb there. Not so hard!
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justthemaid
climber
Los Angeles
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Mar 11, 2009 - 10:15am PT
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I admit...gals do have it a LOT easier in that regard. Guy- traveling alone- trolling for partners in a strange area definitely has a harder time than a girl.
Wonder why that is?? LOL *(wink)*
Hard to take an existing partner sometimes. Conflicting schedules. Money problems whatnot. Traveling to a new area- nice to hook up with a local so you don't waste the trip wandering around aimlessly looking for stuff. (speaking from LOTS of aimless wandering experience).
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quartziteflight
climber
Who knows?
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Mar 11, 2009 - 10:34am PT
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Where ya climbn with this guy? No wonder he put the moves on ya..
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