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Gene
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 21, 2008 - 01:56pm PT
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FRESNO — The National Park Service said today it will close part of a popular lodging complex at Yosemite National Park because an unstable cliff has created the potential for deadly rockfall.
Park officials said 233 cabins will close permanently, or about one-third of the lodging units available at Curry Village to park visitors. About half of the 618 cabins have been off-limits since a rockfall on the historic complex Oct. 8.
http://www.modbee.com/breakingnews/story/507605.html
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:03pm PT
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Nature is awesome..*
Good riddance to a pox on the landscape.
One wonders if this will inspire some sort of 'alternative' development though.
No bailout for Concessionaire Losses!
*and Doug's a pretty cool dude too.
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Ω
climber
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:21pm PT
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What about all the new employee housing directly below the latest rockfall??
Sucks that NPS was allowed to ruin this pristine area! It was always so nice to boulder over there on hot days shaded by all the trees, but all those trees were cut down.
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gstock
climber
Yosemite Valley
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Nov 21, 2008 - 03:46pm PT
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Regarding the timing and frequency of rockfalls at Glacier Point:
There have been more rockfalls from Glacier Point in the past decade than in previous decades, but even a cursory look at the talus at the base of the cliff indicates that rockfalls are frequent there over geological timescales. 150 years of historical data is useful, but probably not a good indication of longer-term geologic process rates.
It is also interesting to note that the rockfall database (http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2003/of03-491/of03-491.pdf and subsequent observations) shows similar increases in the number of rockfalls for virtually every major cliff area of Yosemite Valley. This increase mostly results from an increase in reporting rate, and developed areas such as Curry Village have more reported rockfalls simply because there are more people around to report them. Even so, the statement in the recent AP article that there have been more rockfalls above Curry Village than in any other area of Yosemite Valley is factually incorrect.
Half Dome is another area that has shown an apparent increase in rockfall activity in the past several years, and the majority of those events have occurred in the summertime, between May and August. This demonstrates that rockfall patterns seen at Glacier Point occur elsewhere in the Valley. And, I might add, these other areas exhibiting similar rockfall activity do not have any infrastructure at the top of them.
Greg Stock
Park Geologist
(209) 379-1420
greg_stock@nps.gov
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Nov 21, 2008 - 04:25pm PT
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Welcome to what passes for contemporary objective journalism. Thank you, Greg, for presenting an objective view.
John
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Nov 21, 2008 - 04:47pm PT
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FRESNO, Calif. — An unstable cliff prompted officials Friday to permanently close some cabins in a popular Yosemite National Park lodge complex that has a long history of rockslides.
National Park Service officials said 233 cabins in family friendly Curry Village will close permanently. That's about one-third of the units available in the complex that also includes stores and restaurants run by an outside company.
About half of the 618 cabins at the village have been off-limits since a rockfall Oct. 8.
An Associated Press story this week said federal geologists have warned for at least a decade that the granite face of Glacier Point above the village was dangerous. Despite two deaths and an increase in the frequency and severity of the rockfalls since 1996, park officials had been reluctant to act.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Nov 21, 2008 - 04:51pm PT
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from the bad journalism link above...
Yosemite geologist Greg Stock, hired three years ago mainly to study the rockfalls, said the incident last month indicates the professors are incorrect in theorizing that human water use is to blame.
You tell 'em Greg!
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Nov 21, 2008 - 04:57pm PT
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So who's writing the work order for moving all the tent cabins
over to Ahwahnee Meadow in front of the web cam?
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Joe Metz
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Nov 21, 2008 - 05:10pm PT
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Thanks for the link, Greg. Any chance we can see the actual data tables?
"Park Geologist, Yosemite National Park" -- is that a cool job title or what!
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gstock
climber
Yosemite Valley
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Nov 21, 2008 - 05:30pm PT
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You can download an Excel file of documented rockfalls in Yosemite from 1857 to 2004 here:
http://pubs.usgs.gov/of/2003/of03-491/
I have documented all observed rockfalls since 2004, and was originally planning to include them in an updated USGS Open-File Report to be published in 2010. However, given the keen interest in these data I may try to make them available sooner.
Greg Stock
Park Geologist
(209) 379-1420
greg_stock@nps.gov
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Gene
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 05:37pm PT
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Thanks, Greg. It's great to have you in these discussions.
gm
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 21, 2008 - 06:52pm PT
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The difficulty being that the entire Valley has a long history of rockslides and floods. When it isn't filled with ice, that is, or experiencing fires, snowstorms, and other natural events.
With the closure of the river and other campgrounds, there are far fewer campsites in the Valley than 25 years ago. This will further restrict the numbers of visitors. Lots of significant policy consequences.
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nature
climber
Santa Fe, NM
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Nov 21, 2008 - 07:19pm PT
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did someone call my name?
Is it dinner time?
4:20?
happy hour!
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Joe Metz
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Nov 22, 2008 - 12:13am PT
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Greg, thanks for the prompt reply! There is a lot of interesting info here.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 22, 2008 - 01:05am PT
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Speaking of 4:20 nature, it seems ironic that the park stone expert has it in his phone number!
The concession just can't win in recent years. First the river washes away a bunch of yosemite lodge, and now Curry is toast.
PEace
karl
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-Skip
Mountain climber
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Nov 22, 2008 - 01:44am PT
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This is a good discussion. Greg... congrats on getting some cabins closed or moved. I saw in another thread where you said you were “working on it.” I’m certain there are safer places nearby that many units could be moved to.
I don’t think the real issue in the news articles is the number of rockfalls in Curry Village. I think the issue is simply that the total number of injuries and the amount of damage is higher beneath Glacier Point than elsewhere in the park. And that’s only logical because there are a whole lot more targets (people and structures) there than at other places in Yosemite. It hasn’t made sense for a while now, to house staff and unsuspecting visitors in Curry Village without at least warning them and giving them the choice. Why provide rockfall warnings in other parts of the park (Middle Brother and Bridal Veil) but not there? I sure don’t know... but maybe it was concessions driven?
All of us who climb understand that there are slabs everywhere in Yosemite that are close to equilibrium and that even a small trigger might be enough to start one going. It’s a risk we take. It could be a fellow climber, an earthquake, freeze-thaw, snowmelt, or precipitation to mention some. Each of those can involve water directly or indirectly, and water is listed quite frequently in the rockfall database Greg pointed us to. Shoot, even global climate change might play a role.
So, of all the places in the park, in a setting as critical as Curry Village, it would sure make a lot of sense (for public safety), for the park to invest in the best possible understanding of water movement in the vadose zone under Glacier Point. It doesn’t matter as much at other places in the park... but it sure matters at Curry Village.
Climbing might have hazards. Sleeping in Curry Village shouldn’t. I think that’s why Greg has been working to get cabins closed or moved. Adding a geologist to the park staff was a good move.
I don’t think any of us would knowingly climb Mr. Natural or Apron Jam on the days that extra water was being added in sensitive places up on top... if we had known what days those were.
For those who’d like to dig deeper, there’s an interesting Glacier Point rockfall map, some published professional articles with Glacier Point stability calculations, and even some rockfall source area climbing pictures (if you scroll to the bottom) at:
http://www.runet.edu/~cwatts/yosemite/index.html
Plus... you can find out there when some of the days were that extra water was being added from above to the rocks of Glacier Point.
Climb on,
-Skip
cwattsva@aol.com
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Nov 22, 2008 - 01:54am PT
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John Muir was in the Valley during the 1872 earthquake (8.2-8.4 in Lone Pine):
"... It was a calm moonlit night, and no sound was heard for the first minute or so [after the earthquake], save low, muffled, underground, bubbling rumblings, and the whispering and rustling of the agitated trees, as if Nature were holding her breath. Then, suddenly, out of the strange silence and strange motion there came a tremendous roar. The Eagle Rock on the south wall, about a half a mile up the Valley, gave way and I saw it falling in thousands of the great boulders I had so long been studying, pouring to the Valley floor in a free curve luminous from friction, making a terribly sublime spectacle--an arc of glowing, passionate fire, fifteen hundred feet span, as true in form and as serene in beauty as a rainbow in the midst of the stupendous, roaring rockstorm.
After the ground began to calm I ran across the meadow to the river to see in what direction it was flowing and was glad to find that down the Valley was still down."
Found that here: http://projects.crustal.ucsb.edu/understanding/accounts/muir.html
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dougs510
Social climber
down south
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Nov 22, 2008 - 03:15am PT
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I say: get on Grack Center, climb fast, and hope for the best... it's an awesome climb, the danger kinda makes it fun??? maybe!
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