Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Keeper of Australia Mt
Trad climber
Whitehorse, Yukon , Canada
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 7, 2007 - 11:55pm PT
|
The National Geographic Green Guide has published a couple of reports (May-June - 2006 & July-August 2007)on the toxicity of Nalgene multi-colored Lexan (No.7) water bottles. They are known to leach low levels of bisphenol
A - BPA - a suspected horomone disruptor. A 1999 Japanese study found that the bottles after gentle washing - leached 3.5 ppb into water with worn and scratched bottles leaching as high as 28 ppb. Exposing them to high heat or storing rangy materials like ethnanol and corn oil in them for 240 hours raised the leaching to 64 ppb. No report yet on what storage of heavy hitting quality Canadian beer like Molson's Canadian, or even the fearsome Crown Royal in them will yield - hmm?
The nasty chemical has been linked to obesity and breast cancer and one 2007 study published in PLoS Genetics found that it can
traverse across generations. Pregnant mice who were exposed to low levels of BPA showed chormosomal abnormalities, which possibly cause birth defects and miscarriages in grandchildren.
The multi-colored Lexan Nalgene bottles are favoured by consumers because they are durable, light and are marketed on style. Apparently they pass along a present as well. Not all Nalgene bottles are toxic - No. 2 older varieties seem to be okay as are the No.4 versions.
So with this wake-up call (The Green Guide Nos. 114 & 121) I have now sent my accumlated bottles to the recyling centre.
Even when climbing in in Australia where you need all the water you can muster - I think I would prefer to take my chances with the brownies,red-backs, salties, funnel-webs, blue-ringed octopi, Queen'sland climbing vixens, then infuse my brain cells with some nasty BPA!! Time to go muster the wine skins and metal flasks with CC. All the more reason to avoid paying double the price for Nalgene water bottles in Perth (you would think the Aussies would have mastered the craft of producing their own plastic containers rather then import them from the other side of the world. In fact, it may be that many of the containers are made in China anyways and we know what fine environmental standards are adhered to there!
|
|
hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
|
|
is anyone else sick and #$#@ing tired of the extreme overuse of the term 'green.' Its really beginning to drive me insane.
really insane.
really f*#king insane...
|
|
pud
climber
Sportbikeville
|
|
History and use
Bisphenol A was first synthesized by A.P. Dianin in 1891.[1][2] Bisphenol A was investigated in the 1930s during the search for synthetic estrogens. At that time, another synthetic compound, diethylstilbestrol, was determined to be more powerful than estrogen itself, so bisphenol A was not used as a synthetic estrogen.
Its current uses are as a primary monomer in polycarbonate plastic and epoxy resins. Bisphenol A is also used as an antioxidant in plasticizers and as a polymerization inhibitor in PVC.
Polycarbonates are widely used in many consumer products, including sunglasses, CDs, water and food containers and shatter-resistant baby bottles. Some polymers used in dental fillings also contain bisphenol A, while epoxy resins containing bisphenol A are popular coatings for the inside of cans used for canning food.
On a lighter note, The hole in the ozone above the arctic has shrunk by 30% since Oct '06.
:)
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
this is old news
|
|
caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
|
|
I found a nalgene I had stashed at a crag 3 years ago yesterday. Took a drink, water was still good!
|
|
Keeper of Australia Mt
Trad climber
Whitehorse, Yukon , Canada
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2007 - 01:37am PT
|
From the far outliers of the planet, it is hard to disbelieve information such as this - I mean we are talking biblical proceedings here - National Geographic for gods sake. Right up there with the Liberty Bell, the Yankees, John Wayne, and
the Trailer Park Boys. Too much Green? Bush, Harper and that bloke Howard in Canberra are changing from brown to green before our eyes! No tellin where we are headed - just stick to high ground, I think, but choose wisely, a big chunk of Mt. Steele decided to rearrange itself this summer and park itself a long ways away. We have to keep things in perspective, if we get a big one and half of LA slips into the Pacific, or the Greenland Ice Cap melts and Toronto and New York slip below the waves - we will see what real toxicity is about! But it is possible to survive - I mean look at all the folks surviving in Washington and Ottawa. In statistics, things of low probability do occur. We wonder what color Osama is partial to - quiet and charming fellow like that probably is bunkered on lavender. Maybe the green reaction is simply subliminal reaction to the favorite color of that dude over in Iran who keeps making a lot of noise - he seems to be giving green a bad name - maybe Al Gore should pay him a visit and get him to lighten up!
Seems to me that a few folks in the 1800's though it was pretty cool to sodder food cans with lead. Hmm, I betcha John Torrington is rolling in his grave up there on lonely Beechey Island - tough lot when you are low on the food trough all the big money was being made by the expedition suppliers back in England.
Climate change - hmm - what if it (ice) all goes and it is the end of ice climbing as we love it - now there is a grim thought if there ever was one.
Life is becoming more complex resulting in heightened levels of stress - lemmings just jump en masse over cliffs when they get overstressed - but for humans it is nothing a few guns or grenade launchers won't resolve!
We just have to trust those companies making all the neat stuff out there - they are there at the wall fighting for our best interests - (okay so those Firestone tires were a sort of a corporate bad hair day).
We got our first snow fall of the season so now I can relieve all my pent up stress by firing a blobby thing of rubber at some plywood with a bit of ice climbin thrown in. Life is a slice.
|
|
maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
Here's a link to a site with a ton of information and direct research that has been done on the effects that various food-grade containers have on your body.
http://www.ourstolenfuture.org/
After spending some time on this site I've tossed all my Nalgene bottles. Bisphenol A is nasty, insidious stuff. BTW, the studies that Nalgene point to which claim BPA is innocuous were all conducted and/or funded by the chemical industry or by Nalgene itself. All of the independent studies that have been done recommend you stop using products that release BPA.
The OP seems to say that it's only the colored bottles that are a problem but it's not the color, it's the polycarbonate (Lexan) from which the bottles are made that the problem arises. Strangely enough, the old-school white translucent bottles that made your water taste like sh#t are harmless. Gatorade and springwater bottles do not contain polycarbonate and at present, seem to be benign.
Stay healthy,
Mal
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
Five ppb is an appreciable number from a technological
standpoint. Biological I don't know about. The Nalgene
bottles are not nearly as functional as a Platypus. You see
people carrying Nalgene, especially since they went
multicolored. But why?
|
|
mark miller
Social climber
Reno
|
|
I never liked those darn colored bottles anyways, to trendy. Most of the time now I just reuse juice bottles for water.
|
|
maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
jstan,
People went nuts over the Nalgene bottles when they added color. Distributors reported them as being their single largest profit center for several years running. I think it had to do with 2 things:
1) By offering a fun alternative to what had always been a drab accessory product, Nalgene gave their consumers a way to show off their "cool" differences.
2) The timing was right in sync with the popularization of drinking bottled water and this was a way to be a part of that crowd without buying and throwing away bottles.
Don't know which is the chicken and which is the egg there. I do know, however, that when I walk around town I see more damned colored bottles hanging off people's packs and that means people are drinking more water and that is a good thing.
BTW, Nalgene is not a product or a material. It's name of a brand of damned cool colored water bottles that are poisoning us all. It's the polycarbonate and its attendant pisphenol-A that is doing the dirty work, not some material called Nalgene. Any and all polycarbonate containers are the culprit.
Mal
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
The accumulation of biologically risky, and simply unknown, chemicals is of considerable concern. There's an article about this in the October issue of Harper's - "Toxic Inaction". Essentially observing that thousands of chemicals have been introduced since World War II, usually without any scientific analysis of their benefits and costs. The U.S. Toxic Substances Control Act of 1976 does little to affect this. It allowed about 60,000 (!) chemicals to stay on the market because they were grandparented. Industry liked it - no additional costs, they could simply say "trust us".
The EU, a larger and stronger market than the U.S., is now setting the standards for review of industrial and commercial chemicals. There was considerable opposition by the U.S. industry and government (much the same thing), to no avail, and now they're complying with what the EU requires. In effect the EU is providing the needed leadership. The cost to industry and so to consumers appears relatively nominal.
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2007/10/0081742
I wouldn't be surprised if the EU review eventually extended to bisphenols and such.
At the same time, we all benefit greatly from many of these chemicals. The simplest example is chlorination of water. From a public health perspective, a no-brainer. Millions are saved from lethal water-borne diseases such as cholera, and have much longer life spans. A very very few have slightly shortened lives because the chlorine may be very slightly carcinogenic. There are now better methods, though much more expensive - but chlorination is generally much better than not.
Don't get me started on the evils of bottled water.
|
|
marky
climber
|
|
do the plain cream white Nalgene bottles accept boiling water?
|
|
Bart Fay
Social climber
Redlands, CA
|
|
I could not find this answer within a reasonable expendature of company funds.
Does this apply to the Nalgene grey lexan bottles ?
|
|
maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
If it's Lexan or polycarbonate...it's poison.
|
|
Bart Fay
Social climber
Redlands, CA
|
|
So, I probably should not have been pouring hot coffee into one every morning for
the last few years. D.oh !
Thanks Mal
|
|
Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
|
|
i don't really use nalgenes anymore after twitching over to bladders. however, i do have one of the little nalgene flasks.
it would seam kind of silly for me to be conserned about the whatever ppb other stuff when i'm drinking straight bushmills.
|
|
hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
|
|
Im pretty sure the opaque whiteish (slightly softer and more flexible) nalgene bottles don't spit out BPA. Just the hard colored ones.
|
|
Keeper of Australia Mt
Trad climber
Whitehorse, Yukon , Canada
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2007 - 03:21pm PT
|
Indeed, Nalgene is a corporate brand name - thanks Mal for adding the info to ensure folks out there are on track. Any Lexan type containers with the No.7 in the recycling triangle are bad news. There are some other items which are not too sweet either , I just pitched some dinner ware ie. lexan cup - which you would pour hot tea, coffee etc into - I think it is fair to say you don't want food using this material on the way to your stomach. Mighty Hiker makes a salient point - lots of crap out there - some does a lot of good albeit it may have a downside - chlorine for water being one - but in this case No. 7 plastics don't balance the account in my books. Mal nailed it - we are talking heavy duty marketing to the masses. Pretty tough to turn a supertanker around once it is at full throttle -which is why Nalgene is in bunker mode - just too many $ at risk corporately. In any case, a quick of the local Coast Mountain store showed Nalgene No.7 containers as the ones they essentially stock with few alternate selections albeit they exist ie. Kleen Kanteen stainless steel botles, MLS stainless stell water bottles, Nissan Thermos FBB500 Briefcase bottle,
Sigg resin coated aluminum sport bottle, and Nalgene HDPE Loop-Top Bottles. Any bottle with 2 or 4 in the recycling triangle appears to be okay.
I have written Mountain Equipment Co-op in Vancouver (head office) asking them what they are going to do about distributing toxic bottles to their customers when they consistently proclaim they are actioning high environmental standards in product lines. Last time I was in there - Nalgene No. 7 containers ruled the shelves. No answer from them as yet.
I still have a number of the Nalgene No. 2 creamy white bottles with the blue caps - which are okay. Let's face it , if people go into stores and only buy those - the company will react accordingly - they may not be environmentally responsible but they are not stupid on the financial side of their operation.
Single use plastic water bottles with No. 1 in the recyling triangle on the bottom of the container - are SINGLE USE only.
Reuse of these containers allows a whole pile of nasty stuff to
enter the water ie. DEHA a known carcinogen. An additional issue is that gazillions of these things are not being recyled and are entering land fills. Some municipalities are starting to turn back the lemmings at cliff edge - and promoting use of tap water which in most instances is perfectly safe. Again, maraketing has induced us to a lifestyle trajectory which leads to the rubble pile at the bottom of the big drop-off.
It is important that climbers continue to lead by example in matters concerning our good health and natural areas we hold dear. Small actions when connected with others creates a wave which is unstoppable. Whether I am thrashing around at Squamish or dodging angsted bees at Arapiles, I have the habit of picking up loose garbage or broken glass and depositing in a dumpster or garbage container.
Play smart out there and contribute to your local Access group -
they are doing important and excellent things for the good of us all.
|
|
Keeper of Australia Mt
Trad climber
Whitehorse, Yukon , Canada
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2007 - 03:28pm PT
|
Euroford - you need a greener environmental upgrade to Hudson's Bay Overproof - higher results for less volume of intake!
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!