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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 30, 2007 - 02:41pm PT
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Does anybody know what happened at the Leap on Saturday? I saw a Chopper, buggies and Search and rescue on the Hog's Back. Apparrently a climber fell? Is She OKAY?
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creetur
climber
CA
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I was up there today and heard that a really green leader fell somewhere on a Hogsback climb and was heli'd out. Broke both ankles, apparently. Poor girl...I haven't heard how she's doing or anything more about what happened. Pretty ledgy over there; that would be an unpleasant fall.
Anyone know if she's okay?
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Glaidig
Trad climber
Menlo Park, CA
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I pulled some gear of Deception yesterday (Sunday 30Sept). This must have been the route the accident took place on. I would be happy to return the gear to the rightful owner. Contact information needed.
Guy
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Anastasia
Trad climber
California
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Sending fast healing thoughts to her.
Guy, that is a cool post! Kudos to you!
AF
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J. R.
Trad climber
Sunnyvale, CA
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Hey all,
We were climbing to the right of her on Manic Depressive Direct when she fell. I was on lead but my belayer saw the entire accident. She popped 3 pieces of pro and took quite a tumble all the way down to her belayer. I am not sure which route since it was my first trip to the Leap. I had not quite set my anchors so we were unable to help. I'd like to thank the guys to her left who were able to reach she and her partner in record time.
We saw a litter carried in by first responders and she was helicoptered out. Last I heard was that both ankles were broken.
~ J. R.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 15, 2007 - 02:46pm PT
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The more I hear about this, the more I think it is time to stop using the Yosemite decimal system in our gyms and take responsibility for what we are teaching people there. We are giving people the wrong sense of security and mastery, misleading folks into thinking that plastic climbing can convert directly into rock climbing. When I hear of multiple protection failures on an easy route leading to this kind of tragedy, I wonder who is mentoring new leaders and should they be held responsible? How on Earth could something like this happen? The answer may lie in the fact that gym climbers are moving into the outdoors way too fast. I climb 5.12 onsight in the gym but got spanked on 11b yesterday at Phantom Spires. I sometimes even freak out a bit on 5.9 leads. There is loose rock, no bolts, bad pro, ledgouts, and no pretty blue carpet to land on. Just because some stupid guidebook says the route is easy doesn't make it true. Many of the route descriptions are third hand accounts from reckless, unsafe climbers who sandbag to promote their own egos.
On a similar note, I saw three girls teasing a young man about 17 years old at the Buttermilks last weekend. He just topped out High Plains Drifter (V7) and was sending some V2 next to it. But his head was still spinning from the last route. He was about thirty feet off the deck as the girls taunted and goaded him. Just jump for the Waco! she said. The poor kid was protesting and wisely downclimbing but the girls kept yelling at him not to downclimb and go for it, even teasing him about being scared on such and easy highball. My partner dragged a crashpad over to him. I yelled to the kid that it was his route and not to listen to the girls. I told him that backing off was the truly courageous thing to do and that he deserved mad props for going against the group. After all, those girls probably would ditch the guy in a heartbeat if he fell and then lived in a wheelchair. I wanted to tell him that those girls were not his friends and I am saying that now. James, if you are out there reading this, right on man. You live to climb on. Read Reinhold Messner's account of how he sent all the 8,000 meter peaks without supplemental oxygen. He attributes his accomplishment to surviving long enough to do it. Many times he downclimbed while reckless, cavalier climbers finished routes where they were over their heads. Many of them died eventually on other climbs. Messner says he never ever leaves his comfort zone by choice......
I helped evacuate a girl who fell in the gorge a couple of years back. She fell 30 feet trying to clip the first bolt of a 5.8 sport route. I came upon the scene about 30 seconds after she fell. She had a broken wrist, fractured pelvis, broken jaw, lacerations and intercranial bleeding. When my partner and I brought her gear to the hospital in Bishop, she was already in lifeflight to UCLA trauma center where her survival was uncertain. Nobody wants to hear this but everyone who leads needs to. Fact: lead climbing is dangerous! Ledgeouts happen on easy well protected routes. I had to watch search and rescue evac my friend Paul from the leap the year before. He fell on the crux of "The Groove," 5.8. His protection held but the ledge shattered his ankle. Paul still climbs but with a new sense of the true predicament of leadclimbing. You go Klygesdale!
Bottom line; no one should ever push someone outside their comfort zone, and some peoples' comfort zones are way too wide.
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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Oct 15, 2007 - 02:53pm PT
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What you're saying is worth reading. But it'd be a lot easier to do if you added a few paragraphs breaks, man. Please.
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Majid_S
Mountain climber
Bay Area
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Oct 15, 2007 - 02:55pm PT
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chainsaw
well said
so true
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atchafalaya
climber
California
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Oct 15, 2007 - 02:57pm PT
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its all the gym's fault? C'mon man. Every new leader makes mistakes. Sh#t happens. The hogsback sees accidents cause new leaders go there. And a little encouragement might have helped that kid send in the milks! Doh!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Oct 15, 2007 - 02:59pm PT
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Well said, chainsaw. I agree that people who become accustomed to the relative safety of climbing indoors tend to be too reckless outdoors, not considering 'decking', 'ledging', and not learning protection systems thouroughly before setting out on climbs.
One of my buddies 'ledged' in Jtree acouple years ago. Kinda of ironic but the route was called, "Sitting here in Limbo". Completely wasted his ankle, he still doesn't climb much anymore.
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andanother
climber
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Oct 15, 2007 - 03:01pm PT
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I'm with ya chainsaw!
I just love passing judgement and putting people down when it comes to situations I know nothing about.
Only gym climbers fall, right? Stupid f*#kin gym climbers!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Oct 15, 2007 - 03:12pm PT
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As a kind of sidebar to this...
After a serious accident at Squamish about ten years ago (a guy zippered several cams and smacked his head on the ledge on top of the Split Pillar) I wondered out loud to a friend how anyone could pull cams out of a crack that accepts good placements.
My friend was a guide who'd taught countless beginners, many of whom were coming from gyms, and his answer was interesting. He said that beginners tended to be afraid of stopper placements, and so worked extra hard to make sure they were bomber, but that they viewed cams as foolproof modern machines that worked automatically. So, their cam placements were often marginal.
No idea what the woman zippered at the Leap, but I think Jim's idea about cams being viewed as magical by a lot of beginning trad leaders is right on.
D
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Oct 15, 2007 - 03:12pm PT
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I've posted many times advising new leaders to learn to place by aid climbing with a top rope belay.
I climbed with a few good leaders who were friends, but then I took a weekend course before I got on the sharp end with placing gear. Aid climbing on TR was one of the best things I did. You actually learn what will hold. I don't think many people really know.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Oct 15, 2007 - 03:33pm PT
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I agree that new lead climbers should aid on top rope. I see a lot of crappy placements out there, clearly placed by folks who have not fallen or even hung on gear. Pulling out a cam while on top rope would be of so much benefit.
I hope the person involved in this accident recovers quickly and enjoys many more years of safe climbing.
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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Oct 15, 2007 - 03:42pm PT
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"I've posted many times advising new leaders to learn to place by aid climbing with a top rope belay."
OK, I'll bite. Why the top-rope belay? Seems silly to me.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Oct 15, 2007 - 03:50pm PT
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Is this known to be a route you can sew up with bomber gear, each piece sure to stop a hard fall before you ledge out? Not all routes are like that, and if this isn't one of them some of you are rushing into judgment.
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scuffy b
climber
The deck above the 5
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Oct 15, 2007 - 03:57pm PT
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David, it's so that the price of a blown placement is minimized.
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murcy
climber
San Fran Cisco
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Oct 15, 2007 - 04:00pm PT
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assuming it was deception: in my recollection (jeez, it was MONTHS ago), there are lots of great placements, but plenty of sucker placements too---like flakes behind flakes behind flakes where it's not clear what would move under the force of a cam in a fall.
also, it's not exactly trivial route-finding. she could have gotten run out into harder than expected climbing pretty easily.
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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Oct 15, 2007 - 04:06pm PT
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" David, it's so that the price of a blown placement is minimized."
Hi Steve,
It still seems silly to me. The only time I've seen people doing it it was easy aid. And I couldn't imagine why they had the top rope.
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Matt
Trad climber
never ever pissing into the wind
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Oct 15, 2007 - 04:29pm PT
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"We're all familiar with gravity"
some more than others
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