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smidogg
Trad climber
berkeley
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 10, 2006 - 05:59pm PT
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Since we seem to have a few threads on conservatives today and I can't go climbing until tomorrow I thought I would chime in. From Craigslist:
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.
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andanother
climber
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Jun 10, 2006 - 06:39pm PT
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amen, brother!
This part is my favorite:
And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
what a joke! Christians are the most intolerant people in this country!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 10, 2006 - 08:18pm PT
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"Christians are the most intolerant people in this country!"
Perhaps that is over-stating the situation. Certainly there are many intolerant Christians, in the U.S.A. and elsewhere, and many intolerant persons of other faiths. Much evil has been done in the name of religion, and there are many who are better at preaching than at practising. I agree that the rhetoric and behaviour of many "fundamentalist" Christians seems at odds with what Christianity is supposed to be about.
Still, there are very many who do their honest imperfect best to live up to Christian ideals and values. Persons of most of the various dogmas (brands) of Christianity, and many who don't even profess to be Christian.
I know persons of all faiths, and none, who whatever their beliefs do their best to do unto others as they would have others do unto them. Their values and behaviour are Christian, in the true sense of the word, and they mostly preach only by example.
Anders
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jun 10, 2006 - 08:38pm PT
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Careful there Anders, It could be illegal to appear rational, considerate and thoughtful, all at the same time, on an internet message board.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 10, 2006 - 08:45pm PT
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Not to mention Canadian, eh?
Anders
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Anastasia
Trad climber
Near a mountain, CA
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Jun 10, 2006 - 09:48pm PT
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You forget the part of how fundamentals believe in the ten commandments yet somehow " thou shall not kill" does not register for the war in Iraq.
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pyro
Trad climber
Ventura
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Jun 10, 2006 - 09:53pm PT
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but what about Zaqaaabauway. threat to the people of Iraq. oops!
democracy is their trial were there to help. we don't want that piece of sh#t land.
what about modest behavior.
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jun 10, 2006 - 10:03pm PT
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"You forget the part of how fundamentals believe in the ten commandments yet somehow " thou shall not kill" does not register for the war in Iraq."
No prob, Fundamentalism = revisionism, Fundamentalist religons are modern interpretaions of original precepts; "We're getting back to the fundamental." It's not like any of them were around to agree to the old rules in the first place.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jun 10, 2006 - 11:13pm PT
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10. No practising Christian would deny the existence of other gods. They're there, we get it.
9. Some of us have lots of problems with this one! I don't get it.
8. The Holy Trinity is one of the greatest mysteries of Christianity. I get it - sort of. Analogy is flawed.
7. God Himself can be a bit mean at times. Sometimes even his name is "Jealous" = Qanna [I think] Get to know Jesus, he is much cooler. Through Jesus you get to see the gentle side of God.
6. Hard to believe, but the historical records support it. While many will deny the deity of Christ, few deny the resurrection. The resurrected Jesus was witnessed by hundreds of eye-witnesses.
5. I have a huge problem with this one! I think the earth really is 4 billion years old, plus or minus. But somewhere in the bible [Malachi?] it says that a lifetime is just the blink of an eye for God, who is eternal. Geez, I'm not saying that very well, too many beers in the El Cap Meadows today. Someone help me out on this one.
4. That's a pretty skewed statement. Firstly, there may be many paths to God, but is there any other path to salvation? I'm not familiar with other religions, but Christianity is unique in that it is the only major religion where salvation is based on faith and not on works. How cool is that?
As for tolerance and love, there are hypocrites everywhere. Do you practise love [agape], or not? Voice of Dirty Harry: "Well, do ya, punk?!"
3. The Holy Spirit is rad! I can't explain Him! And it's not "speaking" in tongues, dude, it's more of a prayer. Just don't ask me what the heck those strange words mean, cuz I don't get that, either. But nobody with half a brain would look at a single piece of evidence to prove anything. You have to take all the pieces and put them together and see if it makes sense or not. It's a tough call. To me, the preponderance of evidence makes it easier to be a believer than not.
2. My success rate is significantly higher! However as Janet points out well in other threads, you need to pray that God's will be done, and unfortunately that may not always be the same as yours. However empirical evidence [in my life] is highly supportive of the power of prayer.
1. I'm a little rusty, but I know my way around the bible pretty well....
Cheers,
PTL and PTP Pete
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nutjob
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Jun 11, 2006 - 02:46am PT
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Warning, I tend to be judgmental and here's a great example.
but Christianity is unique in that it is the only major religion where salvation is based on faith and not on works. How cool is that?
My interpretation is that some David Koresh-like character 2000 years ago scammed a bunch of people looking for the easy way out. "Oh hey, you can be a piece of shite {side note: did "shit" evolve from christian derogatory slang for shi'ite?} but as long as you have faith you're good to go". I'll bet he signed up a lot of believers on that plan. Sounds like the religious equivalent of "make money selling houses with no money down!"
But then again, I'm obviously a loser for having this reply be how I choose to spend these precious minutes of life. I don't have an opinion on the qualities of Haysoos because I wasn't there, and I don't believe everything I read. Maybe angels and god came to talk to people; this cannot be validated by books passed through generations of humans who are subject to the corrupting influence of power and control over other people.
That being said, people go with whatever floats their boats and that's cool. I fall into that category of folks who believe "there's some sort of higher power or God" and don't literally follow any works of man to identify it.
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Don't let go
Trad climber
Yorba Linda, CA
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Jun 11, 2006 - 03:58am PT
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Pete, as far as I have come to understand the origninal Hebrew text regarding the creation of the world, the "seven days" actualy means "seven periods." The length of a "period" is not specified. Many people think it was seven 24 hour days. Which would likely make the world only a few thousand years old based on geneologies. However, these periods could have been millions of years long. Some also think that God created the world in the method as presented in the big bang theory. A carefull look into the original text makes it clear that the exact age of the earth is not explicitly stated. Any more questions, comments, attacks, whatever, please keep them coming in an effort to promote thinking.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jun 11, 2006 - 04:11am PT
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andanother sez:
"what a joke! Christians are the most intolerant people in this country!"
Then later NutJob says:
"Oh hey, you can be a piece of shite {side note: did "shit" evolve from christian derogatory slang for shi'ite?} but as long as you have faith you're good to go". to make the point that the Christians will take anybody.
Which is it boys? Tolerant? Or Intolerant?
Get y'all's stories straight!
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jun 11, 2006 - 11:06am PT
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Author:
'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
From: like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
10. No practising Christian would deny the existence of other gods. They're there, we get it.""
Hmmm.
TWO versions of the first commandment:
1. I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before me.
1. Thou shalt worship no other god (For the Lord is a jealous god).
OK, so maybe you won't deny them, but they ain't no good, according to your big boss, who is a little bit insecure, it woudl seem.
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wootles
climber
Gamma Quadrant
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Jun 11, 2006 - 04:06pm PT
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This letter was passed around the internet for a while and has been seen in slightly different forms, so you may have seen it before. The original form was as a letter to Laura Schlessinger.
In any case it's God damned funny (pun intended).
Dear Dr. Laura,
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.
a) When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?
i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help.
Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Your devoted disciple and adoring fan.
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MikeL
climber
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Jun 11, 2006 - 06:55pm PT
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Hey, Wootles:
It barely takes sophmore to exerpt various passages out of any document selectively and find problems with them.
Use those higher order functions.
MikeL
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jun 11, 2006 - 07:24pm PT
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Gee Mike,
IF you had looked, you'd have noticed the wootler merely reposted a letter to Dr. Laura, written and excerpted by someone else.
Your own higher functions seem a bit lacking, ROTFLMAO!
Maybe you should leave the anal retentive stuff to those more capable of retaining their anes, eh?
And remember, Anes makes you feel good all under.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jun 11, 2006 - 07:38pm PT
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What the Hell does Dr. Laura have to do with Fundamentalist Christians?
She's JEWISH, for Christsakes!
Look it up.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jun 11, 2006 - 07:47pm PT
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What gets lost in all of these rants is that everyone is just trying to get by--some through rigid belief structures, others through ripping them apart. There ain't much dignity or honor in attacking what for some, perhaps many, is the one thing that gives them peace. I recall an old Hank Williams lyric: If you'd mind your own business you wouldn't be so busy minding mine.
JL
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MikeL
climber
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Jun 11, 2006 - 07:55pm PT
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dirtineye:
Yeah, I hear you. I guess the letter was meant to be funny.
Posting someone else's writing as support for your own views is an attempt to make them your views.
If those ideas are something that you believe in, then own up to them and say so. The idea is to develop your thinking here. If not, then what's the point? Write your ideas. . . you, yourself.
Dialogue means putting yourself out there, and it makes a person vulnerable. Anyone can present a list of citations or quotations and say that's what they think. It's not.
I apologise for not having the patience about cutting and pasting diatribes, missives, entire articles, or a thesis and then saying, "See there!"
MikeL
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