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ThomasKeefer
Trad climber
Monterey, CA
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Mar 13, 2006 - 11:47am PT
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Chris
You have seperate tabs for beta and for discussion. Why dont you further define the tabs to include one for climbing related and one for political arguments. Not that this is a new idea about the forum just perhaps time to re-visit it.
Tom
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Mar 13, 2006 - 11:48am PT
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People are whiners.
Between the stonemasters and Mussy threads, and the folks who have joined lately, nobody has any reason to gripe about the quality of the forum. It's far and beyond any climbing forum in any country ever. What if there was golf forum where Arnold Palmer was publicly posting clubhouse photos along with Jack Nicolas and Tiger Woods and anybody could join in with a question?
Boo Hoo! Everything isn't just the way we want it! Call it democracy. The forum rocks!
Except if you want to talk about knots and belay devices. Rockclimbing.com already exists, anybody care to duplicate it here?
You do a great job having the site and the forum Chris, and this request of yours is legitimate for you to make and you did so diplomatically, but really, check out the content and tell me if you see a problem
Peace
Karl
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Mar 13, 2006 - 11:53am PT
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I agree with Karl. It is one of the better forums. Thanks Chris Mac, perhaps I'll buy one of your publications someday. When are you going to get around to one on Dalkey Quarry here in Dublin? Or Fairhead up in the north? Glendalough in Wicklow? Burren Sea Cliffs out west?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Mar 13, 2006 - 11:53am PT
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PS Just to add something constructive here, I'd like to repeat my suggestion that folks label all off-topic posts with a something like (politcis) (OT) (Religion) (Humor) or whatnot, then folks wouldn't waste time getting sucked into other's discussions.
Peace
Karl
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Mar 13, 2006 - 11:59am PT
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There is still a problem for dial up users when the threads get to long. It effectively blocks their participation.
Seems to me that THAT is easily the most serious flaw here.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Mar 13, 2006 - 11:59am PT
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I second the motion that this site is THE best. As one of the little ones lucky enough to be included, I consider myself to be walking amongst the giants(sorry, giants - I can't help it....you're just giants, there's nothing you can do about it. Like the Jack and the Beanstalk story, you planted the magic beans and look what sprouted up!).
The amount of first hand stories and photos is just unparralleled anywhere else. And, the political discussion is also interestinf. As for myself - I really don't look at news sources. I find them to be sensational, and biased. Yet I can come here, and the moment a story breaks, someone has posted on it. Then, others join in, and the thread almost always shows a balance of different perspectives. I like that about this site. I can actually get a bteer idea of what is going on in this world because of it.
So..... The only thing I can think of - because it IS true that sometimes climbing threads that aren't as "fun" as some others, do get second-paged because they don't have the posting continuity - would be that, once in a while people could turn the page and bump the climbing threads that otherwise would sink down further.
Do I think this NEEDS to be done? No. I think they should stand on their own merit. The stonematsers thread has been on the front page since inception, and is now into it's sixth "chapter." But....if someone is worried aboutthe lesser climbing threads getting lost, and feels they are worthy of more views, then go bump them.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Mar 13, 2006 - 12:01pm PT
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Me too. OOPS, I'm me tooing with Karl! I shoudl type faster I guess.
One more shoe or knot thread, and I will throw up. Same for free soloing threads, LOL. Let's not even mention dogs. DOH!
I do like the topics such as Healeyje's hammer project, and the esoteric aid questions (you'll never catch me doing much aid tho, unless Kate accepts my marrage proposal).
Climbing related is great, as long as it is not the same old stuff.
New gear threads, special problems in climbing, those sort of things are very interesting
It would be nice to keep the political and other stuff to a minimum, but you gotta remember that Ouch! is pretty darned funny, and lots of us enjoy his work.
Bear 46 is my muse.
Hmmm, yes, patrick has given me a good idea.
Chris, I'll buy something from you (that I'll probably never use, but I'll do it cause you don't charge for the site, and I think you provide a valuable service) if you just leave the forum alone, or at most make a section for off-topic crap, and leave the moderation to the users, except for rare occasions.
Call it Off Topic Crap,and let the poster beware, and let the users browbeat the hapless into puting their crazed rants and mindless trolls there, along with anything else that should be in such a place. On second thought,call it Post Purgatory.
OR, you could make ME the moderator-god-king, since I will have a LOT of spare time pretty soon, as in starting Thursday, LOL, and THEN there would be H3LL to pay for posts and posters that I don't like, ROTFLMAO!
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Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
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Mar 13, 2006 - 12:05pm PT
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Hey Guys:
Seems like from the perspective of a guy who wants to sell highly-detailed guidebooks to routes many of the "old dads and moms" on this site had wired and probaby soloed, lycra clad, in the 80s, there probably *should* be more discussion about belay devices and knots.
One issue is that the people who are most qualified to answer the "how to" questions of noobs, etc. may not find it too fun to actually do so. That leaves us semi-noobs like the blind leading the blind, at which many of you probably sit back and laugh. :)
Perhaps something we could do to help Chris keep it kinda business is to answer "silly" questions seriously, rather than shoo folks over to RC.com.
Like picking up trash at a crag, every little bit helps. If we each take a little extra time to contribute to the climbing -related posts with quality, thoughtful answers, there'll also be *more time/space for the political/social/personal threads* that keep climbers who don't need to be told how to climb coming back.
Without the fun threads, whould FISH, Bachar, Jobee, Piton Ron, Wbraun, BobD and many others even be here? For some reason, I don't think so.
So maybe not conciously limiting the "other" topics, but consciously growing the "climbing" topics could be a more palatable solution?
At the end of the day, Chris doesn't make a dime when we click around on the ouch threads, but he does shell out the dime to keep this forum running. If it doesn't meet his business needs, or is viewed as detrimental to them, it could go away altogether.
He rarely askes us to do anything for him. Maybe we should respectfully perk up our ears when he does. We're in his house, after all.
-Kate.
PS FWIW: I'd like two forums, so I could see more climbing discussions in one glance.
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Mar 13, 2006 - 12:06pm PT
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Chris - I do not think having a "climbing topics" and an "other topics" tab would require more organization and moderation. I think people would voluntarily post under the correct tab as suggested by ThomasKeefer. The impact on the software would be minimal. You would have to alter your database to key on which topic to store a post. And the pages would need to be modified to supply that key.
Karl's suggestion of course could work, but requires giving up limited space in the thread title, not to mention that everybody pretty much has to comply with some sort of convention.
People could easily look at only one tab or the other if they so desired. If they decided to post, they would most likely be doing so while looking at the correct forum. Likewise people that want to look at both could do so, and most likely would automatically without thinking post in the "correct" forum. To the extent that they didn't and things get mixed, not much has changed.
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George_W_Bush
Big Wall climber
Crawford, TX
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Mar 13, 2006 - 12:11pm PT
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Tell the people e-mailing you to quit bitching. If they don't, I will get the SS on their ass.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Mar 13, 2006 - 12:18pm PT
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A little warnng on splitting the forum...
When the forum and beta pages were on the same page, I used to post beta all the time and correct bad beta. Now they are split and I almost never post to the beta page. Change the environment and you never know what else will change
Peace
Karl
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WoodyS
Trad climber
Riverside
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Mar 13, 2006 - 12:19pm PT
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I'm a bit puzzled about this issue.
This site is, for all practical purposes, infinite. There is nothing inhibiting those that wish to post climbing related subjects from doing so and those wishing to partake of them from doing so. I glean from this that there are those that are simply offended for whatever reason by non-climbing threads. It's all quite simple really: when one reads a magazine, one usually skips the articles of little interest, quite elementary.
If non-climbing subjects were to be deleted and only climbing threads allowed, this site would shrink to ten or less percent of its present use. It would also be very booorrring most of the time.
In case no one has noticed, and I'm quite certain most have, this is one of the liveliest sites on the net. Try to find another site as general and tolerant as this.
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poop*ghost
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Mar 13, 2006 - 12:21pm PT
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Chris -
Anybody complaining about the content of the forum should be filed in your trashcan via a double ejection headfirst catapult-er-thingy.
To the complainers: If you've got a beef with the forum, bring it to the forum. You're not paying for a damned thing, so STFU you whiny little brats. Leave Chris alone with your complaints.
Hey, go start a website all by yourself and have a great time.
This forum is absolutely the best and most relevant climbing forum that I've seen. the photos, history and trip reports could easily be put together into a badass coffee table book.
If you can't figure out that a forum called "BUSH SUCKS" ain't gonna be about climbing, then LEAVE THE SUPERTACO.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Mar 13, 2006 - 12:28pm PT
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what the fukk? listen peeps, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 13, 2006 - 12:31pm PT
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Chris,
When I first came to ST I was aghast at the sheer volume of non-climbing posts (mainly Juan's) and asked for a split. I was soundly chastised at the time. To some extent I understand and can better appreciate the point of those that didn't want it split. I would say you can't have it both ways. If you want an unmoderated and open single forum you don't really get to dictate content. I'd still advocate a climbing / non-climbing split if you get to where you personally can't tolerate the ratio. But I think many long time users here feel the topical tidal flows the content exhibits is part of the charm/interest. Also consider the possibility that climbing by itself may never be enough by itself to build and sustain the type of community you find yourself now hosting.
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Landgolier
climber
the flatness
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Mar 13, 2006 - 12:33pm PT
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I do see your point, though the mussy/stonemasters threads now amout to about 1000 posts of climbing-related goodness. I think one quick and dirty way to encourage climbing-related threads would be to up the number of front page threads to like 50 or 60. Climbing-related stuff doesn't generate the kind of rapid-fire bumping that "Bush Sux" does, so it can get chased off the front page pretty fast. If it was given a little more time in the site's short term memory, more people might see it and reply. Also, there's a limit to how many political/flame threads can be sustained at one time, so increasing the number of threads on the front page reduces the proportion that are O/T.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Mar 13, 2006 - 12:35pm PT
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To the complainers: If you've got a beef with the forum, bring it to the forum. You're not paying for a damned thing, so STFU you whiny little brats. Leave Chris alone with your complaints.
hahaha
I agree 100%
Please do knott pester Chris with whiney emails––grow some sack and discuss here...
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spyork
Trad climber
Fremont, CA
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Mar 13, 2006 - 12:36pm PT
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Hey I think this site is great! Every once in a while I ask a serious question about climbing related stuff and people give serious relies. Knowledgeable people like Bachar, Ron Gomez. People post cool climbing pics and tell stories.
I have found a climbing partner or two here as well. Not a bunch. I am a weekend warrior, so I don't get out as much as I would like.
OK, I do indulge in non-climbing related stuff. Oops. I have to say I don't approve of the 'worst jokes' type threads, but its not my place to judge their worth. I just don't read them.
I am a customer too, so I did put my money where my mouth is, so to speak. I have the Tahoe, Yosemite, and TM books and I have made good use of them.
Steve
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