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Steven
Trad climber
Arvada, Colorado
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"I do not like the design (thin axles), materials, the action, or the rattlely, flimsy feel of Camalots"
"FLIMSY FEEL"! Maybe you have the Camalots confused with some other cam like the DMM's? Do you work for Metolius or something? Camalots are the most solid cam I have ever used or seen. They're action is the best out of any cam I have used and they are rated to take a fall in the fully open position like a stopper. Sorry but all of your reasons for not liking Camalots are the most rediculous thing's I have ever heard!!!
It's like telling someone that Yosemite granite is soft compaired to the Fisher Towers sandstone.
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John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
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Just wondering if anyone has any new information about the recent breakages or inparticular photos. The lack of new concise information makes me wonder just how valid these new concerns are.
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handsome B
Gym climber
SL,UT
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This is so funny it deserves a repost.
"I didn't say they were unreliable - I said I don't like anything about them enough to rely on them."
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toyon
climber
fort collins, co
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"...and I don't think the aliens are as bomber as I used to."
FINALLY, THE CRUX IS STATED.
i dont own aliens, and i don't care to read a tome of geeky postings to make my judgement call.
Perception rules, especially in capitalism. the buzz over the past year+ is enough to keep me away from buying. If the company isn't doing serious damage control by the end of summer, i'm writing them off, naysayers or not.
-st
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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cold braze joint. i wonder if this cam was quenched also.
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Gang,
I was at the Splitter camp last week and although I didn't personally see the blown Alien, I did hear the reports and see the photos. Don't know why Micah or the owner of the cam hasn't posted anythiing but I'll see Micah tonight and see what's up. We'll be off the grid until Monday night so don't freak if nothing is posted before then.
Bummer,
Mal
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WBraun
climber
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Hah very interesting.
I've had these kind of failures in electronics and found them purely by accident.
This is how it goes.
When the solder runs out of the connector during assembly into the exposed wire it becomes very stiff there. The wire loses its flexibility and weakens with vibration and shock in certain high stress connections and eventually fails.
Aliens are brazed and at the joint where the wire enters the sleeve would be very stiff and susceptible to breaking if there is a radical bend there in case of a fall.
Just a wild guess from looking at the photos jimi.
I could be full of sh'it too ......
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Is it just me, or does that close-up of the failure point make it look like the cable was not even inserted in the head?
5th photo above
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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That was exactly my thought!
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jsb
Trad climber
Palo Alto, CA
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noooooo! not the yellow! i thought we had something special.
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KevinC
Ice climber
Colorado
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I'm no expert (nor do I play one on TV), but this definitely does not look like a braze failure per se'. Looks to me like the cable did indeed break at the base of the head - perhaps due to lack of flexibility per WBraun's suggestion? If I had to guess, I'd say the edge of the head was even with the edge of the flake which put a big transverse force on the cable. I feel a bit better about my Aliens after seeing the pic but will await an official verdict.
Regardless I hope P&B has a quick and successful recovery.
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JLP
Social climber
Fargo, MN
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1) It appears this is a newer cam that was likely pull tested.
2) It appears the cable was not fully inserted into the axle coupling during brazing. I can say this with about 95% certainty. I would get the other 5% with a closer shot of the break on both sides. My high level of certainty arrises from how strong I know SS is, the lack of indications of strain, and a lack of other visible damage to the componants.
3) My ~5% of uncertainty covers the possibility it was bent and broken over an edge. I would expect to see strands of necked SS at the break piont, as well as significant damage to other componants, as it would take a great deal of stress to do this. I don't see that, however, from the posted pix. In fact, the cam, lobes, etc, look new. Maybe a closer shot would reveal something.
4) This was almost certainly not a brazing failure.
Scary..!
If I worked at CCH, I would create a QC process/fixture that checked the finish length of the brazed assy. This one, no doubt, was a little on the long side.
Checking the lengths of my Aliens now.
JLP.
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billiebob
Trad climber
NY
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This sucks. The photo of the head really makes it look like there was no failure of the cable. It looks as if it was barely inserted into the head. I agree with the above poster; the cams look practically new. This must have failed under a really low load.
Unless there is are some better photos, I guess we'll never know. What a great feeling!
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dirtbagger
Ice climber
Australia
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so now what? I love my yellow Aliens! Got doubles on yellow & red! My little helpers where seem to magically fit everywhere!
can i still trust them? Or never use them as pro where failure would result in a ground fall????
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Landgolier
climber
the flatness
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Pic code from above fixed. From these, it does look like the cable just wasn't inserted far enough. Kinda weird, you'd think whoever was brazing them would be putting them in a jig that would prevent this.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nothing I can see about the placement or the hardware appears consistent with the "bent over an edge" hypothesis -- looks more like it failed without trauma in a textbook straight pull.
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KevinC
Ice climber
Colorado
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Yabut, the end of the cable isn't a smooth square cut as one would expect if the prepared end was simply not pushed far enough into the head before brazing and then pulled out. The cable end is clearly ragged.
Also, though I agree that overall the cam lobes appear nearly new, there are several pretty deep gouges in them which would imply a fairly significant load (from the fall in question?).
I don't believe any firm conclusions are possible (other than it not being a brazing failure) until a materials engineer has a close look at it and other analyses can be performed.
Alien fans see cable breakage under high load, Alien foes see cable pull-out under low load.
How long was the fall prior to the Alien being loaded anyway? I don't recall seeing that anywhere. That would allow at least a rudimentary calculation of the load the piece did or would have experienced.
Hopefully we'll get a real, professional analysis.
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JLP
Social climber
Fargo, MN
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Kevin - you're looking at ragged braze metal, not cable. I would expect, and I see, a 45 degree angle, consistant with some torque being applied with the load. I would expect the torque to be coming from the twists in the cable, as it was loaded. If that thing failed from a straight pull, there would be some obvious fraying, necking of the SS, and much more overall destruction of the cam and cable. Also, the fall would have had to be incredibly long and hard. However, looks new to me.
Wonder if it was the same brazer as last time?
I have the same came with the same date on my rack. Just got it a couple weeks ago. Hmm...what to do with it...
JLP
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