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bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 21, 2009 - 05:23pm PT
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Anybody have any experience with cervical stenosis?
Cervical foraminal stenosis in particular?
What symptoms did you have? How did it start? What treatment(s) did you receive?
Did treatment work?
Just want to hear some climber's perspectives.
Thanks, jb
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 21, 2009 - 05:35pm PT
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BVB.
Calling BVB.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Jun 21, 2009 - 06:45pm PT
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I was just reading about it and it's supposed to be the most common age related operation so I guess it's more than a climber's problem!
http://www.spineuniverse.com/displayarticle.php/article209.html
Have you tried the non surgical alternatives like antiinflamatories or cortisone injections?
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jbar
Social climber
urasymptote
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Jun 21, 2009 - 08:25pm PT
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I know you're probably looking for treatment suggestions but I can't tell you anything you can't find on the net yourself.
I've had problems due to stenosis for 16 years. I hear it differs drastically from person to person based on the cause, etc. Mine was caused by a small explosion as well as breaking my sternum in half, obliterating my xiphoid process and busting my head open. At first my neck was very painful and stiff. I would build pressure in my upper back and chest until I "popped" my spine by crossing my hands over my chest and having someone lift me. I was going to a Chiro 2X a week for a long time but I gave that up after my injuries healed. I was mostly going for the massages from the cute girls. I would also build pressure in my neck and it seemed like my neck always wanted to "pop". Sometimes when I would turn my head quickly to look at something my neck would snap and it would feel like a huge jolt of electricity shot through my body. At the beginning it would be enough to put me on the floor. I never let it stop me or slow me down. Exercise and running helped emensely. I have to stretch my neck and upper body well before a run to keep it from hurting and I always stretch well after. As long as I keep a fairly regular running and stretching routine it doesn't bother me too much. I think it may be getting slightly worse as I age but it's too early to tell.
Sorry I couldn't give you any miracle answers.
Jeremy
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eddie7
Trad climber
London, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jun 21, 2009 - 08:27pm PT
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Don't have it myself, but it can be a painful condition.
Suggest a referral to a spinal neurosurgeon.
If conservative treatment does not work, then surgery might be necessary. Probably a posterior approach (back of the neck) involving a foraminotomy with or without fusion and instrumentation (spine hardware).
Basically, the surgeon will drill out the area around the foramin to decompress the nerve roots. If a laminectomy is required as well, then spinal instrumentation will probably be required. Usually a screw and rod construct to promote fusion and stability of the cervical spine.
The majority of your cervical range of motion is at C1/C2, so if you have surgery anywhere below the C2 level, then you will still have a decent range of motion. Many patients respond very well to treatment and recover without previous symptoms.
Cheers John.
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bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2009 - 09:13pm PT
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Thanks for the responses. Right now I am receiving deep tissue massage and accupuncture treatments which seem to be helping a little but I've only been doing them once a week for about 6 weeks now.
I still have weakness in my left arm and shoulder. It's almost like someone has a dimmer switch and turns it down when I try to crank hard. I'm going to see what my surgeon has to say soon. I am going to continue therapy and see if that resolves the problems.
In the meantime I thought I'd see what, if any , experiences other climbers have had in order to start thinking about what I can do about this.
Thanks again people for speaking to this - it helps.
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 21, 2009 - 09:47pm PT
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There's only one cure for everything.
Cures everything.
One must eat a special sound .......
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bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2009 - 11:38pm PT
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Kevin, wow no kidding....damn... sorry to hear that.
Good advice - thanks. Yes indeed, when my neck and/or arm are in certain positions I get the weakness. Also, after a few hours of climbing my shoulder feels loose, like it wants to fall out of the shoulder socket - at that point I have to stop for the day. Then if I reach out for a handshake position I get this weird click and my arm actually drops limp. Then the next day it's almost normal again! Sometimes I don't know what to do - quit everything or keep going on. I hope I'm not messing it up permanently.
It's good to hear this kind of info. I read all the medical blogs but nobody climbs in those blog forums.
The right sound????? I wish I could find that!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jun 22, 2009 - 12:51am PT
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john, i have it in spades -- pretty severe case -- and have been dealing with it really sucessfully for the last five years. but i'm super tired -- long fathers day! -- and cannot do the topic justice right now. lemme get back to you.
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hashbro
Trad climber
Mental Physics........
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Jun 22, 2009 - 01:12am PT
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wow, so many neck problems among so many greats. I guess looking up has it's "down" side.
I've got cervical stenosis (c4 and c5), which came on from years of mountain bike riding (and I certainly noticed it climbing/belaying). The symptoms were numbness of my thumbs, pain in biceps and shoulders.
The neurosurgeon I saw stated that I would "be back to see him" confidently. I promised myself though, that I would postpone getting knifed at all costs. Five years have elapsed, and instead of getting surgery I took a bit hiatus from the bike, and amazingly the symptoms have pretty much subsided. During that period I've been really consistent with my stretching, and particularly postures that traction the neck. One of my favorites is the standard face-forward hamstring stretch, clasp the head with both hands and push. I can really feel the space form between the vertibrae, producing noticeable relief.
Tractioning can be achieved in many ways (stretches, hanging from webbing wrapped around the back of your head etc.)and is very much worth researching long before considering surgery.
I'm back on the bike with a new super-upright position and hope the symptoms (and threat of the knife) are a thing of the past.
Good luck on the treatment, and do not accept surgery as your only option John.
What about those funny mirrored belay glasses you had?
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apogee
climber
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Jun 22, 2009 - 02:01am PT
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About four years ago, I started getting some numbness/tingling in my left arm, especially when I worked at my computer. Over the next few weeks, it progressed to a constant aching pain, including intense muscular cramping b/w the scapulas- at first, I thought it was orthopedic in origin (i.e. a pulled shoulder muscle, etc.), and went to a sports medicine specialist. Within 10 minutes, and a few basic neurologic tests, he immediately concluded that the problem was neurologic in origin, and referred me to a neurologist.
After an MRI, the diagnosis: herniated disc at C6/7- mechanism: unknown, though I can't help but suspect that decades of hyperextension due to belaying while climbing & teaching climbing was a major contributor. (The spinal specialist said that the mechanism is often difficult to target, and often occurs 'at this age'. I could of slugged him.)
I tried the cortisone injection route, which provided about 4 days of relief (max), then it was just as bad as before. At that point, surgery became the clear option- a posterior foraminotomy (reaming out the foramen where the peripheral nerve exits), and removing some of the herniated disc tissue. Result: almost immediate resolution of symptoms (aside from typical post-surgery trauma), and since then, no more problem.
This was by far the most significant medical issue I have ever had (never had surgery in my life, and I'm mid-40's), and while the physical condition was challenging, the mental aspect of my body breaking down and failing me was far harder to wrap my head around.
My advice: before you spend too much more $ on massage therapies, get an MRI to establish a clear physiologic baseline for your condition- then go from there. If your problem is significant (i.e. stenosis), massage ain't gonna do anything to fix the problem. Best of luck to you, in any case.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jun 22, 2009 - 03:15am PT
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hey there bachar... say, i dont have news to share, i just wanted to wish you best wishes... and i will be praying, too, for all to go well,and for you to find the right path to take, for all this...
god bless...
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Jun 22, 2009 - 10:50am PT
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Dang John, hope you get some good advice on this one! Wishing you all the best, and yeah where's them belay glasses you had?
Peace
the above mentioned belay glasses on Spencer
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 22, 2009 - 10:55am PT
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"Mine was caused by a small explosion as well as breaking my sternum in half, obliterating my xiphoid process and busting my head open."
Holy crap dude
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Jun 22, 2009 - 11:42am PT
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Its called Morphine. But some might have problems with the side effects.
Current Photo of Juan De Fuca heading to crags
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jun 22, 2009 - 12:52pm PT
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Hi John. Sorry you're having to deal with this.
I only have one tip passed on to me from a doc who specializes on disk degeneration: no matter where the problem lies, avoid at all costs any movement where your weight quickly decellerates, resulting in a kind of accordian compression of the disks/spine. No jumpr rope, jumping off boulders from any heigth, dirt jumping on the Mt. bike, etc.
JL
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bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 22, 2009 - 12:58pm PT
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apogee,
Thanks for that - your symptoms are a lot like mine. I got a c6/c7 fusion already with titanium plate. I am waiting to get an appointment with my specialist.
I thought it was also coming from incredible tightness in my shoulder girdle and scapula area but now it seems not.
Jennifer Lane in Mammoth Lakes is an amazing PT and Accupuncturist and has been able to help me a lot so far. I want to try non-invasive means first as much as possible - anyway, my neck is tight as a knot since the fusion 2 years ago.
This is all good info folks - keep the advice coming if you got something. It really helps in my decision making process.
Thanks for helping, jb
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snakefoot
climber
cali
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Jun 22, 2009 - 03:40pm PT
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as apogee says, massage will not fix proliferation of bone at the uncovertebral and facet joints, which cause stenosis of the canal and/or neuroforamima...MR can confuse dark disk(degenerated) and bone--> so a CT can clarify how much bone is involved. best of luck and remember, surgery can cause scar tissue which in itself is another nightmare
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hashbro
Trad climber
Mental Physics........
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Jun 22, 2009 - 08:41pm PT
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I forgot to mention a critical neck tractioning tool known as an "inversion table" that can provide tremendous pain relief by easily using gravity to put more space in the gaps between the cervical vertibrae. One essentially hangs upside down by the feet in a controlled way, letting gravity do the work.
I used it daily through my recovery and recommend it highly to anyone having such neck issues.
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Jun 22, 2009 - 10:20pm PT
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John,
Hoping for a speedy, non-surgical remedy. I hesitate to say it, since it's anathema to an old-school guy like yourself, but maybe you should get a .... bouldering pad.
Seriously, spine surgery has been my life the last couple months. Gerry had a S1 to L2 multiple fusion 5 weeks ago. It removed the severe pain she was experiencing just prior to surgery. Recovery seems to be going well and we have high hopes for a complete recovery.
Rick
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