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Rickster
Trad climber
Pine Bush,NY
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Oct 17, 2008 - 11:12pm PT
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7pm. Slides are a side show in adjacent room.RC
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cliffmama
Trad climber
Noo Jerzee
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Oct 22, 2008 - 01:34pm PT
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Anyone have pictures to post from the events this weekend? I have a few, will post in a day or two.
Jannette
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Oct 22, 2008 - 01:39pm PT
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Nice pix, Oakie!
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Oct 22, 2008 - 04:55pm PT
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Note shots on Gunks Reunion 2008 thread.
Keep 'em comin' (and leave a comment to keep the thread alive...)
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richross
Trad climber
gunks,ny
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Oct 23, 2008 - 10:07am PT
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The guy in the fifth photo is Doug Fosdick. In the 201-220 section with the caption "Bobby D do you know this guy?"
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Geno
Trad climber
Reston, VA
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Oct 25, 2008 - 09:35am PT
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Rich Ross, Thanks for input on the Fosdick photo. Laura had a that slide. We couldn't figure who it was. Geno
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Geno
Trad climber
Reston, VA
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Oct 25, 2008 - 09:37am PT
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Oakie, You take brilliant photos. Can you provide some information on that last one? Geno
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Geno
Trad climber
Reston, VA
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Oct 26, 2008 - 09:24am PT
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Damn, Oakie, that photo with the ink colored sky is superb.
Bobby D, Your shots are awesome too. Did you get a good one of the sky from the parking overlook after it was raining in the Nears last Thursday?
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Geno
Trad climber
Reston, VA
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Oct 27, 2008 - 09:11pm PT
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Anyone know who these guys are? This is one of earliest pictures of a group that would make a name for themselves first in the Shawangunks and then in American Mountaineering. There's a lot of clues in the photo.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Oct 27, 2008 - 10:34pm PT
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I'm guessing here. The guy leaning on the car looks like he could be the young McCarthy. Next from L to R is, I think, Roman Sadowy, then Dick Williams. I'm not sure who the next guy is, and then last on the right is Al DeMaria.
If any stills can be extracted from Steve's video of the visit with the Vulgarians on that day during the reunion that they let them out of the Bide-a-Wee Old Climbers Rest Home, you can see just what age has done to some of these studs.
On the other hand, the fact that they're all still pullin' down (ever so much more gently) fifty plus years later oughta count fer somethin'.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2008 - 01:00am PT
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Them studs may be old but they sure ain't rusty or unreliable! Must be that they are solid gold on the inside.
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Geno
Trad climber
Reston, VA
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Oct 29, 2008 - 06:15am PT
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The photo I posted above was given to me last summer by Claude Suhl, one of the great Gunks climbers and a central Vulgarian figure. Claude provided introductory remarks as a member of the Vulgarian panel at Rock and Snow last Friday couched in what calls “mega-mystical cosmology.” Claude has a unique sense of humor that he uses to poke fun at science, psychology, and politics. He and his wife Alice have been strong supporters of the last two Gunks Reunions. They also have a son who is a U.S. Army Ranger. Getting to know them both has been one of the great experiences of attending the reunions these last couple years.
Anyway, I called Claude yesterday and he provided details on the picture.
These guys were members of the NY City College Outing Club (CCOC). It is March 1958 and they are in West Virginia looking for adventure (it is likely their School House Cave trip). The guy leaning on the car is Horst something (Claude couldn't remember his last name). But the rest of the gang will form the core of the Vulgarians in a few years:
-Roman Sadowy is tying the knot.
 The guy holding red licorice is Claude Suhl himself.
-Pete Geiser is wearing the red hat.
-Al DeMaria is wearing the red sweat shirt.
Rgold may have to advise us on a few details I may miss but from what Claude tells me at this point in time (1958):
-Dick Williams is in the US Navy in the Submarine Service (Claude reckons Dick may even be under the artic ice cap). Dick had been to the Gunks in 1957 but he won't link up with these guys until 1961.
-Jim McCarthy is already a leading Gunks activist. He started climbing in 1951.
-Art Gran is also a top Gunks climber who has met the CCOC guys and will put them under his wing at the Gunks and on trips out West.
-Dave Craft comes into the picture in Summer 1958 and is a very important catalyst in the eventual formation of the Vulgarians.
-Jim Andress is another important mentor to the CCOC guys. Jim served in WWII in the 10th Mountain Division and starts climbing in the Gunks in 1950.
-Rich Goldstone is 14 years old and starts climbing in the Summer of 1958 by climbing the Grand Teton.
Claude Suhl gave me a rough draft of the early Vulgarian history and what follows is an excerpt of what the CCOC boys did in their first few years. It’s important to realize that these climbs were being accomplished in boots/sneakers using Army ropes, slings and a few pitons. This is learning to climb during the “Iron Age.”
“Vulgarian Chronicals jugernaught
[author unknown but it could be Al DeMaria]
1957
Sept. - Oct : First meetings of CCOC. Attended by Suhl and Geiser meet Sadowy, [George] Bloom, Al D, others?. Suhl and Geiser excited to learn that CCOC members doing rock climbing, an area that both have serious interest in. See learning opportunity also possibilities of getting to "the mtns.", the ultimate goal.
Nov. - Dec?
1958
March? First rock climbing trip to Breakneck Ridge, with Art [Gran]?. Gunks seen in distance.
First time to Gunks. Climbing with Gran. Yellow Belly [5.7] free is maximum climb.
April (Al D)
School house cave trip. Rappeling climbing in cave requires prior knowledge of climbing therefore climbing already begun. "Terse Wiry" term coined from "terse wiry leader" reference in climbing book.
June (Al D)
Crag Camp/White Mtns trip followed by climbing at Pocomoonshine, 2nd ascent of Catharsis.
Summer:
Every weekends climbing at cliffs independent of AMC. Probably up to and including 5.7 (Yellow Belly). Craft goes to Bugaboos with Dave Isles and party do East Ridge of Bugaboo. Meet [Jim] Craft,[Jim] Andress, {Jim] McCarthy; Gran "adopts" CCOC climbers. Craft, Andress become regular partners with CCOC climbers. CCOC climbers leading probably including 5.7 (Yellow Belly). An "Independent" group starts to form.
September (Al D)
Kathadin trip. Suhl and Geiser do first alpine type climb of new route on Kathadin headwall. Bushwack to base was hardest part.
Fall
Birdland [5.9] put in [by Mccarthy, Andress and Ruppley]. climbing breakthrough. Some friction developing between "independents" and AMC for not following AMC climbing guidelines.re leading and following (i.e. all the 4's before the 5's, etc.). A number of the CCOC'ers who had started climbing that spring begin leading. This particularly aggravates the AMC.”
Al DeMaria leading in the Gunks with hammer and pitons:
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Oct 29, 2008 - 09:43am PT
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Great photo!!!!! Rich's mis-ID of the fellow leaning against the car as the "young McCarthy", made me realize that I don't recall ever seeing a picture of "the young Mac", or the young Art Gran, either. So if anyone has such photos, or similar ones of other local characters in their younger days, please post 'em. As for the VMC chronology---more great stuff. Is a book actually in the works? If so, I'll place my order now!!!!!
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Geno
Trad climber
Reston, VA
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Oct 31, 2008 - 09:06am PT
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Al and all,
There is a guy writing a book about Gunks climbing that will no doubt include previously unpublished stories about the Vulgarians. I am sure it'll be a great read. In the meantime, here are a few more details and pictures from Claude Suhl's archives.
The year is 1959. The City College Outing Club guys have met Dave Craft and others. They are climbing with Jim Mccarthy, Art Gran as well as coming in contact with other great climbers of this era. The pictures and text that follows is mostly of climbing in the Bugaboos. Claude tells me they took few pictures of themselves climbing in the Gunks. Although they were Gunks climbers what they really wanted to do was climb mountains.
"Vulgarian Chronicals jugernaught[unknown author-could be Al DeMaria] (continued).
1959
Spring: Weekend climbing trips to Gunks
Birth of the Vulgarians
Sometime in June at an early proto-rave, Dick William’s good buddy Jack Hansen, looking around a firelit circle of carousing Independent climbers exclaimed "why you guys are a bunch of Vulgarians". The name seemed somehow appropriate and began to be used by the independents to describe themselves. It also became used by the AMC but with very different intent. The "boys" were becoming a problem for the tightly structured AMC climbing environment that had become the unofficial "controlling authority" for climbing in the Gunks. The independents discovered that their outlandish and irreverent behavior on the rocks was a potent weapon in keeping the AMC at bay. After all, how to handle a bunch of young, loud, foul mouthed hooligans who were also excellent climbers was a daunting problem for the rather strait-laced Appies.
July:
Begining of "sport" climbing - First placement of bolt while on top rope: McCarthy and Suhl on Turdland.
August:
The Vulgarians meet the Bugaboos
and
the Bugaboos meet the Vulgarians
This particular adventure was probably really Dave Craft’s fault.
Picture of Dave Craft:
The previous summer Dave had disappeared from the Gunks to purportedly visit a fabled range of “real” mountains that the Vulgarians had never heard of; the Bugaboos. Dave returned with great tales of gleaming granite spires, rising gloriously out of glaciers. Most of the peaks had only a single route and were therefore virtually unclimbed; tales of Snowpatch Spire, the mountain with the hardest “normal” route in North America climbed only a handful of times; of Bugaboo Spire and the of the even more challenging Howsers with it’s South Tower which had only been climbed once. What was even more enticing was that this climbing Shangri-La was a mere 2500 miles away and on the same continent!
By the time the summer of 59 rolled around a Vulgarian raiding party had formed with plans for an assault on this fabulous treasure. The fact that this would be the first time that any of them except for Craft had even been in an alpine environment was considered a mere bagatelle.
Anyway with all the overweening overconfidence of youth, plans were made, gear assembled and an assault team consisting of Gran, Craft, Geiser, Sadowy and Suhl formed. The only thing that now stood in their way was a little problem of money.
Only two people in this group, Craft and Gran, had regular paying jobs. Geiser, Sadowy and Suhl consequently had to spend the first part of the summer working in the south Bronx for Senator Frozen Products, a tiny mom and pop ice cream manufacturer that was coincidently about to give rise to an ice cream revolution.
Because Senator was a Teamster union shop, and because manual labor actually got a living wage in those days, they managed to accumulate sufficient boodle to finance their planned venture. Not only did they get the boodle, but they also intersected with an historic moment in the ice cream business, the birth of Hagen-Dazs. At the time, Senator Frozen Products, a family affair, was under a lot of rather hard ball pressure from it’s much larger competitors, so in the summer of 1959, in a last ditch effort to stave off bankruptcy they decided to create a product that they were pretty sure their competitors couldn’t match, namely the first commercially available super-premium ice cream. Boy did they get that one right!
Although the “boys” didn’t know that they were witness to ice cream history, they did know when they’d accumulated the necessary funds for the western adventure. Consequently, towards the end of July, the necessary $ in hand, the five man assault team with all its gear, squeezed into Art's 57 Olds and headed west.
NY, NY to Spilamacheen, BC; two and a half 24 hour days of driving across pre-interstate America. Eternal 2 lane arrow straight blacktops leading to the tiny town of Spilamacheen and Jim Pauls(?) gas station. $25/person got you a place in his jeep/trailer combo. 3 or 4 hours of four wheeling in the long Canadian evening through the still, semi-virginal BC wilderness, got you to the so-called trailhead; an abandoned lumber camp.
There the party met John Rupley and Hans Krause already climbing for a week or so and come out for more supplies. Morning comes and staggeringly heavy packs are mounted for the 4.5 mile ascent to Boulder camp. A network of game trails leads to the foot of the moraine along which there's a fairly well beaten path which unfortunately dissolves into a maze of boulders, scree and shrubbery protecting the final (steep, really MF'ing steep) hump into Boulder camp:
Boulder Camp is pretty crowded, Ed Cooper is camped under the "Boulder", Fred Becky and his climbing partner are hacking away at the first ascent of Snowpatch East face, while off away from all the hurly burly of Boulder Camp, Krause and Rupley have pitched camp up in the Pigeon - Hauser col.
A day or so of "acclimatization" and the Vulgarian party makes the 32nd ascent of Snowpatch; feels great, running around these hills. Various day ascents are made of Anniversary and Pigeon peaks, and a visit to the Krause - Rupley camp while Gran and Cooper start to work on the East face of Bugaboo.
Pictured from left to right is Claude Suhl, Art Gran and possibly Ed Cooper:
Geiser and Sadowy join forces with Becky and under Fred's tutelage, and a long day, knock off the first ascent of the west face of Bugaboo.
Picture of Roman Sadowy:
Picture of Al DeMaria:
Picture of Claude Suhl:
At the end of the first week there are a few more arrivals, Bill Kemsley(?), following the directions left with Jim Paul to " Don't bring food, bring beer " actually packs in two cases of beer instead of food and declares himself a ward of the camp. About this same time Roger Chorley of Himalayan fame, where he also contracted polio leaving him with only one fully functioning leg, showed up as well.
After about two weeks of escapading about the Bugs,with the weather deteriorating, the VMC party departed for the Tetons. Without knowing it many US climbers had fallen in the ways of the old trapper parties who used to rendezvous annually in Jackson Hole at summers end. So the "boys", although initially side tracked into the Jenny Lake camp ground, soon discovered that the party was in full swing at the old CCOC camp. There, a bunch of hard core California climbers including Yvon Chouinard and Ken Weeks were living in the old abandoned ovens and pushing the envelope with new difficult rock routes. In fact Chouinard was just recovering from a rather nasty fall off a new line he and Weeks (?) had been pushing on the Broken thumb. He'd zippered a bunch of pins on an overhanging section of the route kissing the rock with his knee when he swung into the wall as Weeks caught him off the last pin. They then proceeded to self rescue, bushwacking down in the dark, a particularly painful experience for Yvon when the occasional branch would whack him on his newly insulted knee. Needless to say the Vulgarians were impressed.
Although there wasn't a lot of climbing that got done, a couple of rock climbs on Disappointment and Black Tail Butte, the Climbers camp was great. There, there was much partying and palavering as well as trips into Jackson Hole. Jackson in those days of yore was still a sleepy western town. A place where at noon you could practically go to sleep on Main street and not have to worry about getting hit by a car; old dogs moseying along, the occasional cowboy, the odd citizen and almost no tourists.
Art Gran leading in the Tetons:
In addition to the Yosemite crew, the Vulgarians also met the climbing Rangers who manned the Jenny Lake ranger station and saved the odd climber and/or lost hiker. Pete Sinclair, Dave Dornan, Sterling Neal, etc. were a bunch of very decent guys and outstanding climbers with a "live and let live" attitude towards the goings on at Climbers camp. Ultimately it was time to leave. Time to get back to school."
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Bill Hutchins
Trad climber
Maryland
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Oct 31, 2008 - 09:57am PT
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This thread is just wonderful! Geno, please post more of the Vulgarian notes. I started climbing in the Gunks back in the 60s and find the notes a treat to read. How cool it must have been for a bunch of kids from NYC to climb in a car, drive to the Bugaboos and encounter Becky and Kraus and then meet up with Chouinard in the Tetons.
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Oct 31, 2008 - 10:16am PT
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Amazing Geno....way to go.
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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Oct 31, 2008 - 10:45am PT
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Very cool!
Geno (or others who know) - would Kraus have been on friendly terms with the Vulgarian crew by then, after they'd been climbing in the Gunks for a full season or two?
Would they even likely have known the other party was going to be a the Bugaboos?
GO
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Oct 31, 2008 - 12:50pm PT
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I'm reading Claude's wonderful account of the early Vulgarian days with interest and delight. I was still a teenager just getting into climbing as the Vulgarians were forming and was certainly not a part of the group. My first encounter with them occurred in the old climber's camp in the Tetons, a place that used to be at the epicenter of Americian climbing, not so much because of the Teton climbs themselves but because over the course of a summer, nearly every active climber in the country seemed to pass through the climber's camp on the way to or from adventures in other ranges.
Except for what one would nowadays call minimal instruction from a few Exum-guided climbs, I learned about climbing on my own, primarily from books. (And hoo boy, there were some doosies back then. The AAC published a handbook by Kenneth Henderson that recommended such bombproof techniques as the knee belay---don't ask...and the there was Charles Wilts' book called, I think, "On Climbing," that expounded still on the virtues of nailed boots over "rubbers" and included such tie-in esoterica as the Tarbuck Knot.) Anyway, my impressionable adolescent psyche had been deeply influenced by the purple pro---uh, the lyrical writing---of Gaston Rebuffat. From his books I learned about the beauty of the mountaineering experience, the brotherhood of the rope, the necessity of being fashionably attired at all times, and the imperative that under no circumstances was the leader ever to allow the perfect geometrically vertical lines of his rope to be broken by pictorially distracting protection points.
Thusly stuffed to the gills with matching-patterned-sweater-and-knicker-socks idealism, I made my way to the climbers' camp. Oh, the horror! The place was infested with badly dressed, apparently unwashed, and thoroughly unkempt vermin, drinking, copulating, disrupting Teton Tea parties, roaring around the loop road in their Triumphs, sounding the Vulgaraphone, and indulging in all manner of activities impossible to carry out in woolen knickers. I feverishly consulted my copies of Neige et Roc and Etoiles et Tempetes (you don't think I would deign to read bad English translations of The Master, do you?) for protective incantations against these alpine demons, no doubt the same ones feared by the early peasants venturing into the heights for the first time, now somehow transplanted from Chamonix to Jackson, screaming like the hounds of hell in the throes of the feverish blood lust stimulated by the scent of my dry-cleaned climbing outfits.
As I cowered behind Orrin Bonney's teepee, watching the End of Days in progress before me, I realized that the apocalypse had arrived, probably during my AP Calculus class, and that from now on Fire and Brimstone would be replacing Starlight and Storm. Still, I managed to cling to one eternal verity: these were not Real Climbers.
No way.
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