Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 16 of total 16 in this topic |
crazyfingers
climber
CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 12, 2008 - 03:49pm PT
|
Does anyone have any experience aid soloing with an autoblock type device like the Guide or Reverso?
Transitioning to rappel would be harder, but seems like the questionable catching characteristics of the GriGri would be negated.
|
|
Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
|
|
|
Mar 12, 2008 - 03:55pm PT
|
what's questionalble about the gri-gris catching characteristics? mine has allways caught me just fine. Use a 10+mm rope and a steel locker.
|
|
crazyfingers
climber
CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 12, 2008 - 04:01pm PT
|
just have heard some stories about rope slippage and falling to the backup knot. People never really seem to know what happened (normal belaying a leader or soloing) but consensus seems to be that if the minimal rope inertia is not there for the cam to grab (for various reasons) it can cause a failure.
But, just interested in autoblock soloing for it's own sake too.
|
|
TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
|
|
|
Mar 12, 2008 - 04:29pm PT
|
crazy,
do not expect the people who died (if any) to respond to your question.
The people who didn't will tell you that they are still alive.
Has anybody smoked cigarettes without dying of cancer? 100% of responses to that question will be yes. LOL.
|
|
cintune
climber
Penn's Woods
|
|
|
Mar 12, 2008 - 04:38pm PT
|
I used one [BD Guide] to clean some steep mossy slabs last summer, worked okay for that with a couple of pendus and some test falls. Haven't had the balls or the opportunity to try it on anything committing, though.
Let us know if you get killed doing it.
|
|
maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Mar 12, 2008 - 04:53pm PT
|
Hey crazy',
The Grigri works fine for soloing until it screws up. Same thing happens with the Cicnh. That's why neither of our companies recommend their use for soloing. Many, many threads on ST and RC.com about this.
In regards to the autoblock for soloing: You're on your own here, too. While both the Reverso and the B-52 (and perhaps the XP-Guide) have been tested and are recommended for use as emergency ascending devices, using them to hold the force of a soloing fall is beyond what they are tested and approved for.
During the development of the B-52--just for fun--we did catch some lead falls in the autoblock mode and there was always enough rope damage (glazed sheath to stripped sheath) that you'd want to retire your rope. They would also, occasionally, hold the fall.
I have no idea if Petzl, BD or anyone else has any test results for this mode.
Climb Safe,
Mal
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Mar 12, 2008 - 04:54pm PT
|
Terra firma is always a reliable autoblock for soloists. You hit it, you stop.
|
|
tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
|
|
|
Mar 12, 2008 - 06:56pm PT
|
Why not use the Wren industries soloist? I've been using one since shortly after they came out, back when they were Rock Exotica.
General thoughts on roped soloing is stay a grade or two below your limit, and don't fall. Roped soloing is generally alot of extra work to give one a psychological boost vs. free soloing. Great for top approach tr problems to run laps, but progressively more work as you lead, and then do multipitch routes.
|
|
crazyfingers
climber
CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 12, 2008 - 09:30pm PT
|
maldaly-
Thanks for the info. Were those catches in autoblock mode done as if a belayer was catching a leader or leader belaying self?
What sort of theoretical fall factors caused the rope damage?
|
|
w_mcfarland
Sport climber
Huntsville, AL
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2008 - 11:41am PT
|
Does anyone ever use their Soloist or Silent Partner for working on projects (repeated falling)?
|
|
hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2008 - 12:12pm PT
|
I did a pretty good amount of soloing with a Gri Gri. I thought it worked pretty well, fed more or less smoothly depending on the terrain, rope size, and how you managed the rope, I took a big pendulum with it, but no sizable falls, so I wont tell you about safety really. At the time, I thought it was a good system, I probably had no clue what I was doing ... hah
If you try it, make sure you get the chest harness sized just right, otherwise it pulls your back into a hunchback and makes life hell.
|
|
crazyfingers
climber
CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 13, 2008 - 01:28pm PT
|
All the turmeric in the world won't help the aid soloing Hunchback!
|
|
tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2008 - 02:09pm PT
|
My thoughts on roped soloing:
Soloing is soloing, whether with a rope or not. The only benefit of the rope system is hopefully it’ll keep you from getting killed or injured if you fall, but the goal is not to fall. To me you need to have the right mindset when soloing, and it should never be casually approached. Don’t think, I can’t find a partner so I might as well go solo. Don’t take roped soloing lightly, as it is your eyes and your eyes only that are going to assure good anchors, your harness properly buckled, rope properly tied, soloist setup properly I have run the rope backwards into my soloist at least once, ie the anchor running through the free end. I recommend taking a test hang on the device before committing to the route as you’ll find out if it’s setup properly, I didn’t and didn’t realize my mistake until I was at the top of the route. It is a much greater commitment than climbing with a partner.
The routes I’ve roped soloed on lead, whether rock or ice are routes I could free solo with no reasonable concern of falling, but mentally I’m just not there.
I’ve used a soloist for about 20 years now. As far as using it to project a route, I’d highly advise against it, or any mechanical solo device for that matter. You don’t get the tension you’ll get with a belayer when dogging a route. More importantly, the force of catching the fall on the soloist is spread over a smaller area than any belay device. It’s sufficient to catch a lead fall without damaging the rope, but the dynamics are different than having a belayer. Instead of the roper drag and biner drag reducing the load on the belay device with some rope slippage and stretch through the belay device, the solo device is taking the full force of the fall.
I would be very concerned about constantly falling on the same small area of the rope. If you’re working the route from a top rope, then I don’t have a problem working at my limit, but not on lead.
My advice for working at your limit solo is to boulder. There is no better way to work to your physical limits than to be totally free of the mechanical restraints of roped climbing.
|
|
KuntryKlimber
Mountain climber
Rock Hill, SC
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2008 - 02:49pm PT
|
i have roped soloed easy 1 pitch top rope stuff with a reverso because i have no friends. would be averse to multipitch rs-ing at my level though. there's a good guide online that i used.
don't forget them backup knots.
EDIT. i don't think my type of rs-ing is scary or hard core at all. it's only slightly more dangerous than a human belayer in my opinion. and i tie lots of backup knots. i'm a busch league climber and it dont scare me a bit. the reverso on autolock has held my "falls" but obvi i'm on toprope and i'm really just weighting the rope.
|
|
maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Mar 13, 2008 - 03:04pm PT
|
crazy',
We were just fooling around when we had our drop tower rigged so we didn't have a load cell attached, nor did we measuring anything. Regardless of what results we got we weren't going to say that it was a rope solo device so we didn't get too scientific. All of the falls were in a fixed system (dropped weight was steel, and the rig was attached directly to steel anchors. The only elastic component of the system was the rope and knots. All falls were above F1 and we kept increasing it to see if we could break the rope. We couldn't but we did trash them pretty badly.
Mal
|
|
crazyfingers
climber
CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 13, 2008 - 03:14pm PT
|
There is always the concern that belay devices are supposed to be on the belayer's end of the rope, where fall forces are theoretically 2/3 (or even less) of the force on the leader's end due to friction.
Throwing the device on the leader's harness means 100% of the fall force will always be on it.
This can be mitigated with screamers, energy absorbers, incorporating a haulbag into the anchor setup, to lessen the overall impact force on the system.
I'm intrigued with maldaly's input. I'd like to know more specifics.
|
|
| Messages 1 - 16 of total 16 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!