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Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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Dec 24, 2006 - 02:43pm PT
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I have been fearful of creature closures for years. It's pretty obvious where this is headed: ALL climbing areas closed. Extremist? Every year there are more areas/climbs closed due to different species of birds, frogs, whatever. New creatures are picked for closures all the time. The radius of closures is growing. Every cliff houses multiple species of creatures, the only way to "protect" them all from the horrible rock climbers is to close all the cliffs to climbing. I believe that this is extreme environmentalism. The extremist position is to have areas where humans are not allowed to keep that area pristine. The Catch 22 here, though, it that noone can appreciate that pristine area because noone can go there. I love being able to see and admire all species of birds, another tragedy here is that any species being used for a closure also limits our ability to appreciate these awesome birds.
My personal opinion is that there should not be bird closures anywhere, period. I just refuse to believe that the presence of climbers causes any significant negative impact on any species. It there is a bird so sensitive and dicey that the mere sight of a climber causes them to perish, then how in the heck have these birds survived the eons in a cruel and harsh natural environement? ROTC (best route in WA) is closed every year because of birds that were doing just fine up there before the closure. Now the entire Midnight Rock (and Noontime Rock) are closed each year whether the birds have nested up there or not. This is in Tumwater Canyon, where there are zillions of cliffs that birds can nest on, almost none of which see climbers. The closure starts right about the time it gets warm enough in the spring to go up there, ends when it is too hot to climb there, leaves a small window of time to climb up there in Sept. before it gets too cold. The same thing occurs with the entire Middle East Wall at the Frenchman's Coulee.
So how many climbing areas will have to be shut down before climbers see the light? This has to be fought by all of us. I am a corporate sponsor of the Access Fund, and am a huge advocate of this wonderful organization. We need them now more than ever. I do think, however, that the Acciss Fund should be opposed to all bird closures, rather than agreeing with some. The risk of continued loss of climbing areas is just too great.
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Dec 24, 2006 - 03:44pm PT
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Right on Dave, call me Baba, but I think this raptor business is such a trumped up cause. Closing areas for these outlandish reasons just masks the intent of keeping the public off public lands so it can be futher degraded by the Forest Service without any public outcry. The current attitude towards public lands is that these areas do not belong to citizens but to government which belongs to corporations, not citizens. Any avenue is used to make these lands resources for corporations, not a public heritage.
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Scott_Nelson
Trad climber
San Diego
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Dec 25, 2006 - 05:36pm PT
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Is there a phone number we can call, or is it possible to do a physical protest? I don't think writing letters is enough on this important issue.
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T-REX
climber
san diego, ca
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Dec 25, 2006 - 07:50pm PT
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Scott,
Actually, this is the time letters WILL HELP...at least do this part now!
Thanks!
p.s. sorry, gotta go eat christmas dinner right now...maybe more on that later.
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T-REX
climber
san diego, ca
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Dec 26, 2006 - 01:40am PT
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Hey Dave, thanks...and thanks for the bump!
Nope, haven't sent it, though I glance up every time I'm in the neighborhood. ;)
Give John a call when you're down in the spring, let's head out there and finish it off!
As for this closure issue, don't stop talking about it for a minute...you know as well as I do how apathetic climbers can be when it comes time to act on this stuff (we all just want to be out climbing, tripn' with our mental selves...especially out there on the sharp end). Don't let them!
Tell your buds that WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE...but only if, as "mtwoodsonguide" said, they "Send that damm letter".
Pass it on to everyone...cheers!
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ladysmith
climber
san diego, ca
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Dec 31, 2006 - 01:52pm PT
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Bump
Important access issue.....all the other stuff doesn't mean much if we don't have places to climb....Lets keep our climbing resources open!
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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The comment period is now extended to Jan 31.
Full info at
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/cleveland/projects/projects/seasonal-closures/index.shtml
Overall the closures seem too broad.
The radius of closure is much larger than the climbing restrictions used at numerous other eagle & falcon nesting sites, as were already provided to the Cleveland NF by the Access Fund.
The Cleveland NF letters refer only to studies recommending the maximum radius, and ignore studies that have found that a smaller radius is effective:
Pinnacles NM http://www.nps.gov/pinn/visit/climbclose.htm
and http://www.pinnacles.org/climbing_info/index.html#closures
Boulder, CO http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/arnf/recreation/rock-climbing/brd/index.shtml
Tucson AZ http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coronado/forest/recreation/rock_climbing/rocks.shtml
Lovers Leap CA http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/documents/forestorder/order_030604_loversleap.pdf
Oregon http://www.climbsworegon.com/HOME_PAGE/seasonal_closures.htm,
and http://www.fs.fed.us/r6/umpqua/recreation/rockclimb.shtml
Yosemite Nat Park http://www.nps.gov/yose/wilderness/peregrine.htm
California Joshua Tree NP http://www.accessfund.org/regions/res/CA
The closure letters quote The Cleveland Nat. Forest Land Management Plan "When appropriate, a no-disturbance buffer around active nest sites will be required from nest-selection to fledging.”
Active nests imply that the closure can be lifted by late Feb if it is known that nesting has NOT occurred.
Additionally, the closure area can be reduced if only falcons are nesting since they need less space than eagles.
Yet the closure proposals say nothing about flexibility and lifting of restrictions due to monitoring of nesting sites.
Little evidence is cited to start the closure period as early as Dec 1.
The FS letters mention this as a reference
http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/BNA/demo/account/Peregrine_Falcon/CONSERVATION_AND_MANAGEMENT.html
But it does not seem to call for highly restrictive closures.
Peregrine Falcon
EFFECTS OF HUMAN ACTIVITY
Disturbance at eyries
Much as described for Prairie Falcon (Steenhof 1998). Pairs vary greatly in responsiveness to human activities, depending partly on individual characteristics, partly on period of breeding cycle, and partly on environmental circumstances (Cade 1960). Pairs in remote locations most reactive; those in urban areas or frequently visited sites become habituated to close human activities. In past, some historical eyries were abandoned because of human encroachments or increased levels of nearby activity (Hickey 1942, 1969; Bond 1946), but not a major factor in population change. Also, temporarily abandoned eyries sometimes reoccupied after disturbance ceased (Bond 1946, Herbert and Herbert 1965), in some cases after many decades (Ratcliffe 1993). Rock-climbing and activity of researchers at eyries not usually detrimental when reasonable precautions taken (Olsen and Olsen 1978, Cade et al. 1996; see working bib-liography of Porter et al. 1987, for >80 references to effects of disturbances).
Another recent federal proposal to define "disturb"
http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/issues/BaldEagle/Definition.Disturb.06.pdf
‘‘disturb’’ under the BGEPA as follows:
‘‘To agitate or bother a bald or golden
eagle to the degree that interferes with
or interrupts normal breeding, feeding,
or sheltering habits, causing injury,
death, or nest abandonment.’’
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dona
Social climber
Red Rocks
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Here is Kevin's email address:
kevinthaw@hotmail.com
He is now living in JT with Mysterious if you were looking for him. No more Vortex, too white in the new abode....
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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This proposal could affect crags on USFS land throughout the country (not just San Diego County).
Please consider writing a letter. Every letter makes a big difference. Individual letters have a tremendous impact and are considered by the USFS to represent the opinions of many hundreds of other people.
The comment period is the best time to stop ill considered policy. Once implimented, it is significantly harder to get something like this reversed.
The proponents are hoping to slip this by without anyone noticing (and prevent public opposition/comment). Don't let them do this.
See Randy Leavitt's post which also talks about the far reaching effects of this proposal. http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=303688
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Has this been posted over on Rockclimbing.com, cascadeclimbers.com, and/or other popular climbing sites?
If not someone should get on it!
{edit: I reposted the topic to RC.com and cc.com, linking back to these discussions. we should do the same with other sites. Summitpost.com....and others.]
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Jan 24, 2007 - 05:58pm PT
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Kick for more exposure, and to write those letters.
Klimmer
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jan 24, 2007 - 07:24pm PT
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wasn't the deadline for comment Jan 12th?
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SuperTopo on the Web
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Let us know!