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Kartch
climber
belgrade, mt
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 30, 2006 - 04:27pm PT
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I want to get a new rope for Ice/Alpine/multi-pitch trad routes. I can't decide between a double system or a lightweight single line. Both would be nice but right now I can only choose one system. Any ideas? Thanks.
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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Sep 30, 2006 - 05:17pm PT
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i have thus far stuck to a skinny single with a 7mm tagline/rap line. i think this gives you the most options, weighs about the same as doubles and doesn't invite a spaghetti disaster at the belays when trying to move fast. i think the only advantage doubles have is on wandering terrain, but i think being smart with a single can eliminate most of this issue.
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s. o.
Trad climber
the desert
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Sep 30, 2006 - 09:25pm PT
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definitly a single line (especially if i am leading), you can use long runners to eliminate rope drag, and the simplicity is nice. go 70m and light.
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ikellen
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Technically, a skinny single is lighter than any double rope system (if your skinny single line is the 8.9mm Mammut Serenity). However, two 60m twin ropes are only about a pound heavier, and offer the ability to do full 60m raps. Plus you can split the weight between partners. Half ropes will be heavier than the twins, but offer the true rope drag prevention of a double rope system (Twins have to both be clipped to every piece). I think for most routes, a skinny single is the way to go. Rarely in the alpine have I been screwed by only having just a single skinny rope. Evalutate how much rapping you'll be doing, and what your real purposes for the rope are.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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If you are using it for waterfall ice at all get doubles.
Ice pitches tend to wander alot and rope drag can be a real issue. Also, ice climbing sometimes sends down huge chuncks and sharp shards of ice, on your rope. Also, sometimes people tool through their own rope when tr'ing...
I magine being 3/4 the way up a 60 meter ice pitch and having your only rope get severed by a big block you dislodged!
Use two.
I also use my doubles for climbing in a party of three. circitouitus (sp?) climbing where rope drag may be an issue (think alpine ridge climbing). And on routes where you need two rappel ropes, many routes in Yosemite.
The main dissadvantage is that rope managment can be more difficult, and takes practice. And weight, and cost.
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Kartch
climber
belgrade, mt
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 1, 2006 - 01:23pm PT
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thanks for the input, there is a lot of waterice in the future.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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yeah, Kartch...just realized you are in Belgrade!
get doubles, you'll want them in Hyalite. I could name off a dozen routes where you'll want them. That was my stomping grounds a while ago, miss it!
plus doubles are safer if used right, lower impact force on stubby screws!
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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practically speaking, do double ropes actually reduce impact force? i always felt that was more to do with the fact that they are tested at a lower weight.
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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Some things to consider:
Do you need to do a series of 2-rope raps? Doubles >> single + rap cord.
Do you need to haul? Single + static cord >> doubles.
Party of 3? Doubles.
Easy terrain? 1 half-rope or twin may suit your purpose. It can be doubled.
Soloing, but want a rap to go down? Just take the rap cord + long sling for diaper sling harness.
Rope likely to get cut (sharp rock, falling stuff)? 2 ropes >>1.
Wandering terrain? This one is tricker than people make it sound. If using double ropes allows you to straighten the rope path (clip one rope right & one rope left) than doubles give less drag (and less chance of zippering pro). OTOH if you are going around lots of obstacles, corners etc. on wandering terrain, and the rope must take a similarly wandering path doubles or not, you will likely have less rope drag from one single, than from 2 cords (double ropes, or single + tag line).
Traverses? If after a traverse you go up, protect yourself along the traverse on one rope, protect the second after, up high on the other. In this case, doubles are much better. If on the other hand, you don't go up after the traverse, doubles don't have much advantage.
Rope management?
1. Doubles aren't as bad as many people say. I've discussed this before with people who claim they're a problem, and it sometimes turns out that they don't know how to or are unwilling to manage the ropes in an efficient manner. Doubles are only really a problem if they tend to kink up. Or if you're doing a lot of short climbs, and have to seperate the ropes after each climb.
2. Rope management for doubles is much better than for single + tag line in the common case where the leader hauls the tag line, and stacks it seperately at each belay. Because that wastes the time to pull up the second rope each pitch. With doubles or with twins the ropes are stacked together, and fed out together.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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"I magine being 3/4 the way up a 60 meter ice pitch and having your only rope get severed by a big block you dislodged!"
Actually you have a greater chance of cutting the rope yourself with a miss swing of your tools than with a chunk of ice coming off and cutting it. Years ago some ice ropes had a wire cable weaved in the first 10 feet so to prevent completely cutting the rope in two. BTW I have cut a rope in two in the middle of the crux going from a top rope to free soling in one fell swoop.
As to the original question get the right rope for the right climb.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Hell, just use avalanche cord and triple it. Cheapest way to go and you've got 1200lbs test.
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s. o.
Trad climber
the desert
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I don't know why you ask Kartch, you don't climb ice with a rope anyways.
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mike hartley
climber
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Doubles offer lots of advantages if you use them well, but they take a fair amount of practice if you want to maximize their use. I don't think they are the kind of system that most people can use a couple of times a year and do well with. The rope management issue as far as stacking and tangles goes isn't that big of a deal. Belaying is something else. Watching someone double-belay that's not used to it is scary - especially if you are the one leading.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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"practically speaking, do double ropes actually reduce impact force? i always felt that was more to do with the fact that they are tested at a lower weight."
Euroford,
Last time I checked Double (Half) ropes had a lower impact force rating then say a 9.3 or 9.5.
I think Twin ropes are tested with a lower weight. But I could be wrong.
Scared Silly, I also mentioned "Tooling" your rope above. It is a good reason not to have nOObs TR'ing on 8 mil ropes.
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| Messages 1 - 14 of total 14 in this topic |
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