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| Messages 1 - 46 of total 46 in this topic |
Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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what price? like oh sh#t yer gunna die, or that it costs allot?
in all truth, climbing has been one of the cheapest activities that i've gotten into.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Just ask any golfer.
(Just don't ask me, I just shelled out $80 for a park pass!)
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Just bought a new fork for the mountain bike....ouch! All worthy sports are expensive.
How about polo? They use 10 different horses per game per player. You need a passle of ponies at thousands of dollars per pony plus food and trainers.
Running; Now there is an affordale sport.
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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yeah the bike thing kills climbing fo sho.
last year i bought a new fox 36 van rc2 fork, went home and promptly cut the steerer tube too short. new upper crown from fox cost a couple of bucks...
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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As I said over there on mp.com... if they're going to pay someone to write an article, they should as least confirm the moron knows something about what they're writing about. That article is pathetic as he||.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Euroford, which choice words did you utter when you cut the tube too short? I feel your pain....F$#$ LOL
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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if i remember correctly; all of them!
LOL!
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Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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I have joked with Todd Gordon and others for years that climbing costs $100 per pitch. Or is it a joke? Add up the cost of gear, gas, wear and tear on car, guidebooks, climbing magazine subscriptions, computer and internet to check out Supertopo, airline tickets, food, motels, camping fees, entrance fees, other fees, permits, climbing gym memberships/building your own, TIME OFF WORK, etc.....you decide! I'm thinking $100 per pitch ain't that far off. Worth it? YESSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If climbing ain't worth the money, then what is?
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ewto
Mountain climber
slOwHIO
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""They should have signs and stuff and trash cans outside," said Pham, who climbs regularly in the safety of a San Francisco gym. "I don't think they even clean your rocks off for you out there."
Shoot me in the effin head... shoot me NOW.
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Barbarian
Trad climber
all bivied up on the ledge
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One year climbing cost me over $25,000 and all I got was a new rope. The rest was the debt my ex stuck me with when she left.
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Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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See what I mean?
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spyork
Social climber
A prison of my own creation
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How come no one cleans my rocks off for me? Oops, wrong thread, or wrong state I guess.
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james Colborn
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
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That AP reporter did no home work for their assignment. Although the numbers they gave for the increase of climbers is staggering. Where are all these people climbing? I think the crags are more vacant than they have been in years. I'm sure they have grouped pad people in those numbers so things might be slightly scewed.
I could use a new crash pad. Hopefully I'll come across one of those abandoned ones this weekend.
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bachar
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Shoes and a chalk bag....priceless.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Where are all these people climbing? I think the crags are more vacant than they have been in years.
Sunday Feudal and Short Walls were deserted, except for the Climbsmart clinics. Playhouse Rock was a ghost town. Lots of pad people roaming around the park, but few climbers it seemed.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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last year i bought a new fox 36 van rc2 fork, went home and promptly cut the steerer tube too short.
I remember reading about that the day you did it. I felt your pain right through my computer monitor.
Climbing expensive? Naw, not compared to sitting on your duff and growing old before your day.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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At least you can all rest assured these new climbers would never, ever think of retro-bolting any of your classic runouts...
Actually, I've seen 'em do worse.
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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I did find Hacky-Sack to be fairly inexpensive...
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Lighten up, wes.
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ec
climber
ca
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Some things never change...check the postmark.
Note the last two remarks for those like Ha Pham.
note: address edited out...
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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wow yvon and i have something in common. our penmanship sucks.
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426
Sport climber
Buzzard Point, TN
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most of those guys "don't ever (even?) read"...hehe
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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""They should have signs and stuff and trash cans outside," said Pham, who climbs regularly in the safety of a San Francisco gym. "I don't think they even clean your rocks off for you out there."
Shoot me in the effin head... shoot me NOW."
Some of you wouldn't recognize sarcasm if it shot you in the effin head.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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No dude, they will like totally respect your standards and ethics...
Why do I get the feeling that you don't really believe what you're saying and that you're actually just being a jerk?
Don't bother answering, I already know.
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JOEY.F
Social climber
sebastopol
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Thanks Granite,
I missed it!
It was in my Sunday paper.
Ms Pham will never live that one down!
Cheers,
joe
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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He doesn't even mention that the "volunteers" were all climbers!!! How much crap do the NON-climbers leave laying around!? We are self-policing!
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jstan
climber
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From what little experience I have, it seems reporters are given so many column inches to fill and while they have no prior knowledge whatsoever they do have a deadline. This particular piece has no flow to it and just seems to bump around. As if it all came out of some surfing on the net.
The possibility that reporters are getting their information off the net – should give us all pause.
The same paper had another AP piece by Scott Sonner devoted to the Yosemite show at the Nevada Museum of Art. The same event generated two pieces for the same press bureau and were released on the same day. Sonner's piece seemed knowledgeable. It would not be surprising if the head of an AP office would send a senior reporter to such an event along with an apprentice. A training opportunity if you will.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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No question that the real and perceived impacts of climbing on human and natural environments are a major concern for land managers and the public, and should be for us. However poorly this was expressed in the article.
There's also no question that if we believe our community's values are important, we have a duty to teach others.
Heaven help us if some uninformed reporter uses SuperTopia as a source for a similar article.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
where the wild things are
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i thought the girl who talked about how they don't clean off rock outside probably didn't realize that weather cleans most chalk off, that's all. she would have learned, i'm sure (i hope!) the urban planner lady i thought was just pointing out that people will learn different things based on who they are with and what that person teaches you. she didn't say it was right or wrong or good or bad or smart or dumb; she was just making a good point.
i think gyms would be good for training. i would go to one if i didn't live an hour away. the cost of membership plus gas makes it prohibitively expensive. if i am driving an hour, i'm heading east to boulder, not west into suburbia.
and btw, whoever left salami and cheese wrappers at the leap bolders, i cleaned them up for you.
p.s. you're gross.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
where the wild things are
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p.p.s. hacky sack rules! nothing is more relaxing between classes than kickin' one around whilst chillin' to reggae in the parkin lot :)
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
where the wild things are
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i didn't say that it did or that it was acceptable for people to trash a place because they don't understand the subtle nuances of leave no trace. yea, it's common sense to not leave garbage out there. it's stupid that people do anyways. but some people don't realize that even leaving organic matter such as spilled trail mix and orange peels and stuff is wrong too, even if they hide it in bushes, even tho that should be clear as day. i'm just sayin' what i thought she was sayin', and that i happen to agree, altho i will say that it's stupid that people don't make the connection and i don't understand how they don't. i'm not an apologist for litterbugs. geez.
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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"Millions of Americans have developed a taste for rock climbing, a fad fueled by a proliferation of urban climbing gyms and glamorized by programs like America's Next Top Model, which recently showed its models hanging from climbing ropes"
Bwahahah what a joke!!!
I wonder where he got the quote from Bryan?
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jstan
climber
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OT
My extensive research in the field leads me to guess that orange peels can last a few years, and banana peels look like they have gone ten. Never would have thought this before.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
where the wild things are
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"OT
My extensive research in the field leads me to guess that orange peels can last a few years, and banana peels look like they have gone ten. Never would have thought this before."
a lot of people wouldn't. i don't leave that stuff out there, and i explain to other people why they shouldn't, either, if i see them doing so. plus, if any animals munch on that stuff or even spilled trail mix or granola it messes up their digestive systems cuz they're not used to it, and i'll explain that to people too, when they laugh at me because i'm picking up all these tiny things.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
where the wild things are
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plus anything spilled or whatever is unsightly. i once picked up a bunch of pistachio shells someone left on the rocks near one of my favorite spots by some water. i put them in a baggie and pinned them up on the b.b. in tuolumne with a note. i can be kind of a brat about that sometimes.
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WBraun
climber
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Time
You must submit to the superior authority of time.
You can question forever and the superior authority will gobble you up!
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
where the wild things are
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ot - i would just like to announce that "total eclipse of the heart" is playing on the easy listening station.
"turn around bright eyes... cuz i need you now tonight... i need you more than f*cking evar."
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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The piece is actually much better than what I would've expected to read on one of the wire services or even in one of the major newspapers. If you want to read knowledgeable reporting on climbing, then Manchester Guardian or maybe the London Times are about your only English-language options (aside from smaller papers in mountain regions).
The punchline of the pice is pretty clear: The new generation of climbers are learning in gyms where they acquire neither basic outdoor competence nor a leave-no-trace ethic. As a result, the NPS and other land managers believe that conflicts are increasing even beyond what the rise in numbers would warrant. That punchline seems pretty consistent with sentinments expressed regularly on this site.
As for the literary merits of the piece, I would not give the reporter too much blame (or credit) without knowing whether other writers and editors reworked the piece before it posted (as is commonly the case).
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jstan
climber
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"Lest ye be judged"
And as usual Kerwin's point is appropriate. When it comes to copy control on a paper, it is a zoo.
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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You can see a photo of Kay Okamoto in Climbing- January '07 #254, gallery section.
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JesseM
Social climber
Yosemite
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Hey Guys and Gals,
The Access Fund wrote to me asking me for a response to this article. I think the article is misleading in many ways, and readers who don't know the reality of what happens in Yosemite and other climbing areas could jump to conclusions and think climbing is fundamentally bad for the environment. 900lbs of ropes and other garbage from climbing areas?? Maybe the reporter mixed up the stats from the old cable materials we hauled off of Half Dome (dropped by the NPS in the olden days) during the Facelift.
Here is what I wrote to Brady Robinson, the Executive Director of the AF:
"Throughout my coorespondance with the AP reporter who wrote the story on climbing impacts I stressed the positive relationships the NPS, in particular in Yosemite, is building with climbers. The Yosemite Facelift, in which the Yosemite Climbing Association led an effort of ?1000's of volunteers, most of them climbers, to help remove 21 tons of garbage and abandoned/old NPS infrastructure, is a perfect example of a climber initiated movement of stewardship of our public lands.
Although we discussed the numerous impacts of climbing, I also stressed that at least 98% of climbers work hard to minimize their impacts and do an excellent job of doing so. For every user group in the Park it is this minority who create the problems that we as Rangers try to help mitigate. I don't know of any other user group in Yosemite that so consistently acts as part of the response to impacts to the resource, and helps us as land managers find answers to complicated access issues as they arise--as the community of climbers that come to Yosemite to enjoy the adventures that our granite walls have to offer.
I also emphasized that although the erosion due to sustained use in climbing areas like Cathedral Peak in Tuolumne Meadows has contributed to a lot of resource damage, it is a Park Management problem as much as it is a climber problem. Together we need to find a solution to this and other resource impacts, and together we will.
Thanks,
Jesse McGahey
Climbing Ranger
Yosemite National Park
jesse_mcgahey@nps.gov"
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, Ca
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" ...there are MORE "visitors" entering the park this year than last...
But I am pretty sure...
LESS climbers... "
Locker, the "climbers" are all at New Jack. More bolts = more ascending. I agree, there are way fewer climbers in Josh than in the past, especially on anything rated over 5.10b. More pad people though.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Not only do I question 'authority,' I question the existence of authority.
Really? Next time you talk to a cop, tell him to f*#k off. When you go to court, make sure you tell the judge to f*#k off, then get back to us on your authority theory.
JesseM, thanks for the good word. At the Friends of Josh Climb Smart event a lot of climbers helped in eliminating social trails and creating new access trails at Hall of Horrors. It was amazing what could be accomplished with 8 hours of work by a large group.
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Access Funder
climber
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Nov 13, 2007 - 06:06pm PT
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The following letter has been sent to each and every newspaper which published the original article.
Dear Editor,
This week an AP article titled “Rock Climbing’s Soaring Popularity Comes at a Cost” ran in your publication. The Access Fund, the national rock climbing advocacy organization, would like to correct several significant errors and omissions in the article.
The article depicts climbers as environmentally irresponsible, confrontational, abusive to animals, reckless, and damaging to Wilderness areas. Evidently, the writer does not understand climbers or the sport itself because the article makes gross generalizations based on factual inaccuracies and a few hand-picked examples that reinforce the writer’s bias.
In reality climbers are environmentally conscious, reasonable people who are drawn to the sport because of their love of adventure and the outdoors. Climbing has a long role in the conservation movement, and stands on the shoulders of environmentalists like John Muir and David Brower. Jesse McGahey, the Yosemite Ranger referenced in the article comments, “I don't know of any other user group in Yosemite that so consistently acts as part of the response to impacts to the resource, and helps us as land managers find answers to complicated access issues as they arise…”
Case in point, this fall at the Yosemite Facelift (an Access Fund Adopt-a-Crag event organized by the Yosemite Climbing Association and supported by the American Alpine Club) climbers cleaned up areas used by all park visitors and showed that climbers are in fact good stewards of the environment. Their work was not limited to climbing areas but included miles of roadway and trails, campsites, and pull-offs. The Yosemite Facelift drew nearly 3,000 volunteers who contributed over 18,000 labor hours and collected or recycled over 42,000 pounds of garbage.
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A few other points of clarification:
• The article states “volunteers packed out 900 pounds of abandoned rope.” This was actually historic steel cable on Yosemite’s Half Dome rock formation that the National Park Service abandoned decades ago, not climbers.
• The article seems to confuse climbers with hikers, and solely blames climbers for trail erosion. Over 3.5 million people visit Yosemite annually, only a small fraction of whom are climbers.
• The article states that climbers are “violating federal wilderness [sic] regulations by drilling into the bare rock face with power tools.” Power drilling in Wilderness is not permitted, is very rarely conducted by climbers, and the Access Fund does not condone illegal activity.
• The article states that from 2004 to 2005 the number of US climbers grew from 7.5 to 9.2 million. The same study shows that the number of outings actually decreased substantially from 147 to 51 million between 2002 and 2005. This information was omitted from the article.
• The article implies that land managers have banned, restricted, and limited climbing activity in response to the growth of the sport. In fact, climbers and advocacy groups like the Access Fund work in cooperation with land managers to create proactive measures to conserve valued natural resources.
The non-climbing public deserves to know the facts about climbers and the sport of climbing, and climbers deserve to be fairly represented. We hope you’ll consider sharing a more objective, fact-based response to a story that was reported quite carelessly.
Sincerely,
The Access Fund
With Support From,
The American Alpine Club
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