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reddirt
climber
Elevation 285 ft
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 2, 2009 - 07:04pm PT
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So I'm curious about this competition/spinoff/alertnative to AMGA, PCGI.
It seems AMGA still is the certification for Ice/Alpine/Ski Mountaineering though.
What's the story?
edit:
oh yeah, on AMGA's site, it says, "The first big change is that Contract Rock Instructor, Alpine Guide, and Ski Guide Courses will not be offered in 2010."
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apogee
climber
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PCGI popped up a year or two ago, as you stated, as an alternative to the AMGA. About the same time, the Professional Climbing Instructor's Association (PCIA- http://pcia.us/pro/); was formed, basically for the same reasons: the AMGA had become too focussed on higher-end technical guiding and gaining reciprocity/equivalency with international guiding certifications and associations, and was not providing enough support to the entry-level climbing instructional professionals. The one program the AMGA had developed that was aimed at that level of instruction was the 'Top Rope Site Manager' program (now called 'Single Pitch Instructor')- it was designed to provide training for outdoor leaders who provide primarily top rope or top-belayed climbing (not multi-pitch climbing). A few years ago, the AMGA decided to change the curriculum and content of the TRSM course in order to gain equivalency to a similar level European certification- this resulted in widening an already gaping schism amongst several of the developers and managers of the TRSM, and some of them left.
I am less familiar with the PCGI, though they have been more visible than the PCIA. I do know many of the people who started the PCIA, and they are very well respected, highly skilled climbers and educators. Having been in the outdoor education industry for several decades, I am quite confident of the PCIA's ability to develop a quality training program.
This type of training is sorely needed by the outdoor/adventure education industry- the number of climbing participation days generated by these entry level programs dwarfs high-end, technical guiding programs. Those who aspire to work in the field have had very few choices for training- until the AMGA developed the TRSM course, the only option was Rock Instructor certification- a very expensive, very time consuming process that is way, way beyond what many of these instructors required.
There is considerable friction between the organizations right now- the PCIA & PCGI are both trying develop their programs and gain recognition, and both are at odds with the AMGA. It's too early to say who or how this will shake out, but if the upshot is more accessible training for those who really need it, I'm all for it.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Apogee wrote: "Those who aspire to work in the field have had very few choices for training- until the AMGA developed the TRSM course, the only option was Rock Instructor certification- a very expensive, very time consuming process that is way, way beyond what many of these instructors required."
This is a valid point, I believe, but I don't entirely agree that the only viable teacher training is through a guide certification program. It's good to learn certain protocols and techniques so as to have a standardized approach, but beyond that, it's mostly practicum that counts.
JL
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apogee
climber
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Largo, I offered that statement within the context of the training programs in question. Beyond certification/training programs, there is no doubt that there are many, many other ways to gain very good technical guiding experience. The crux for most who seek training is finding a quality resource.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Is that worse than an organization formed to rubber stamp wannabes that don't have what it takes to pass muster?
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apogee
climber
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khanom, the advent of both the PCGI and the PCIA should remove (or at least reduce) the 'monopoly' that the AMGA has had on guide certification for many years now. In my opinion, the AMGA has operated beyond the realm of reality (in respect to climbing programs and their actual activities) for a long time- the 'competition' brought about by PCGI/PCIA can only be a benefit for all three organizations (as they strive to improve and compete), and the increased training opportunities that this will provide for those who seek it.
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reddirt
climber
Elevation 285 ft
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2009 - 10:48pm PT
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Largo's (edit:) and Apogee's comment definitely appear to mesh w/ PCGI's mission:
"Provide education that is practical, self directed, experiential and based on the adult education model and practice of Andragogy, visit http://www-distance.syr.edu/andraggy.html for explanation of the model."
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