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drgonzo
Trad climber
east bay, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 23, 2008 - 10:44pm PT
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And then there's that pesky Iraq-Pakistan border business...
The List
National Security Policy
1. McCain thought Bush’s warrantless-wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite.
2. McCain insisted that everyone, even “terrible killers,” “the worst kind of scum of humanity,” and detainees at Guantanamo Bay, “deserve to have some adjudication of their cases,” even if that means “releasing some of them.” McCain now believes the opposite.
3. He opposed indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it “one of the worst decisions in the history of this country.”
4. In February 2008, McCain reversed course on prohibiting waterboarding.
5. McCain was for closing the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay before he was against it.
6. When Barack Obama talked about going after terrorists in Pakistani mountains with predators, McCain criticized him for it. He’s since come to the opposite conclusion.
Foreign Policy
7. McCain was for kicking Russia out of the G8 before he was against it.
8. McCain supported moving “towards normalization of relations” with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.
9. McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Hamas. Now he believes the opposite.
10. McCain believed the U.S. should engage in diplomacy with Syria. Now he believes the opposite.
11. McCain is both for and against a “rogue state rollback” as a focus of his foreign policy vision.
12. McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty’s behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.
13. McCain was against divestment from South Africa before he was for it.
Military Policy
14. McCain recently claimed that he was the “greatest critic” of Rumsfeld’s failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as “a mission accomplished.” In March 2004, he said, “I’m confident we’re on the right course.” In December 2005, he said, “Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course.”
15. McCain has changed his mind about a long-term U.S. military presence in Iraq on multiple occasions, concluding, on multiple occasions, that a Korea-like presence is both a good and a bad idea.
16. McCain was against additional U.S. forces in Afghanistan before he was for it.
17. McCain said before the war in Iraq, “We will win this conflict. We will win it easily.” Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was “probably going to be long and hard and tough.”
18. McCain has repeatedly said it’s a dangerous mistake to tell the “enemy” when U.S. troops would be out of Iraq. In May, McCain announced that most American troops would be home from Iraq by 2013.
19. McCain was against expanding the GI Bill before he was for it.
Domestic Policy
20. McCain defended “privatizing” Social Security. Now he says he’s against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)
21. McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn’t.
22. McCain supported storing spent nuclear fuel at Yucca Mountain in Nevada. Now he believes the opposite.
23. He argued the NRA should not have a role in the Republican Party’s policy making. Now he believes the opposite.
24. In 1998, he championed raising cigarette taxes to fund programs to cut underage smoking, insisting that it would prevent illnesses and provide resources for public health programs. Now, McCain opposes a $0.61-per-pack tax increase, won’t commit to supporting a regulation bill he’s co-sponsoring, and has hired Philip Morris’ former lobbyist as his senior campaign adviser.
25. McCain is both for and against earmarks for Arizona.
26. McCain’s first mortgage plan was premised on the notion that homeowners facing foreclosure shouldn’t be “rewarded” for acting “irresponsibly.” His second mortgage plan took largely the opposite position.
27. McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn’t be allowed.
28. McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King, Jr., before he supported it.
29. McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he’s pro-ethanol.
30. McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.
31. In 2005, McCain endorsed intelligent design creationism, a year later he said the opposite, and a few months after that, he was both for and against creationism at the same time.
32. McCain opposed gay adoption before his campaign concluded he didn’t really mean it.
33. In the Senate, McCain opposed a variety of measures on equal pay for women, and endorsed the Supreme Court’s Ledbetter decision. In July, however, McCain said, “I’m committed to making sure that there’s equal pay for equal work. That … is my record and you can count on it.”
34. McCain was against fully funding the No Child Left Behind Act before he was for it.
Economic Policy
35. McCain was against Bush’s tax cuts for the very wealthy before he was for them.
36. John McCain initially argued that economics is not an area of expertise for him, saying, “I’m going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues; I still need to be educated,” and “The issue of economics is not something I’ve understood as well as I should.” He now falsely denies ever having made these remarks and insists that he has a “very strong” understanding of economics.
37. McCain vowed, if elected, to balance the federal budget by the end of his first term. Soon after, he decided he would no longer even try to reach that goal. And soon after that, McCain abandoned his second position and went back to his first.
38. McCain said in 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were “too tilted to the wealthy.” By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and falsely argued that he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending.
39. McCain thought the estate tax was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite.
40. McCain pledged in February 2008 that he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Specifically, McCain was asked if he is a “‘read my lips’ candidate, no new taxes, no matter what?” referring to George H.W. Bush’s 1988 pledge. “No new taxes,” McCain responded. Two weeks later, McCain said, “I’m not making a ‘read my lips’ statement, in that I will not raise taxes.”
41. McCain has changed his entire economic worldview on multiple occasions.
42. McCain believes Americans are both better and worse off economically than they were before Bush took office.
Energy Policy
43. McCain supported the moratorium on coastal drilling ; now he’s against it.
44. McCain recently announced his strong opposition to a windfall-tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea.
45. McCain endorsed a cap-and-trade policy with a mandatory emissions cap. In mid-June, McCain announced he wants the caps to voluntary.
46. McCain explained his belief that a temporary suspension of the federal gas tax would provide an immediate economic stimulus. Shortly thereafter, he argued the exact opposite.
47. McCain supported the Lieberman/Warner legislation to combat global warming. Now he doesn’t.
48. McCain was for national auto emissions standards before he was against them.
Immigration Policy
49. McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants’ kids who graduate from high school. Now he’s against it.
50. On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own bill.
51. In April, McCain promised voters that he would secure the borders “before proceeding to other reform measures.” Two months later, he abandoned his public pledge, pretended that he’d never made the promise in the first place, and vowed that a comprehensive immigration reform policy has always been, and would always be, his “top priority.”
Judicial Policy and the Rule of Law
52. McCain said he would “not impose a litmus test on any nominee.” He used to promise the opposite.
53. McCain believes the telecoms should be forced to explain their role in the administration’s warrantless surveillance program as a condition for retroactive immunity. He used to believe the opposite.
54. McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.
Campaign, Ethics, and Lobbying Reform
55. McCain supported his own lobbying-reform legislation from 1997. Now he doesn’t.
56. In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving “feedback” on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he opposes his own measure.
57. McCain supported a campaign-finance bill, which bore his name, on strengthening the public-financing system. In June 2007, he abandoned his own legislation.
Politics and Associations
58. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist John Hagee. Now he doesn’t. (He also believes his endorsement from Hagee was both a good and bad idea.)
59. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist Rod Parsley. Now he doesn’t.
60. McCain says he considered and did not consider joining John Kerry’s Democratic ticket in 2004.
61. McCain is both for and against attacking Barack Obama over his former pastor at his former church.
62. McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as “an agent of intolerance” in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans “deserved” the 9/11 attacks.
63. In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending “dirty money” to help finance Bush’s presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.
64. McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.
65. McCain decided in 2000 that he didn’t want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he “would taint the image of the ‘Straight Talk Express.’” Kissinger is now the Honorary Co-Chair for his presidential campaign in New York.
66. McCain believed powerful right-wing activist/lobbyist Grover Norquist was “corrupt, a shill for dictators, and (with just a dose of sarcasm) Jack Abramoff’s gay lover.” McCain now considers Norquist a key political ally.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Jul 23, 2008 - 10:53pm PT
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Thanks Crowley!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 23, 2008 - 11:05pm PT
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"McCain was for kicking Russia out of the G8 before he was against it."
Russia isn't a member of the G8 and never has been. Russia is now invited to send an observer to G8 meetings, and is considered part of the quite unofficial G13.
As Russia has lots of oil and natural gas, and other minerals, and as McCain is a Republican, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to know what's next.
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drgonzo
Trad climber
east bay, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 5, 2008 - 12:32pm PT
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Russia is a member of the G8.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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"Members of the G8
The G8 comprises The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, The French Republic, The Russian Federation, The Federal Republic of Germany, The United States of America, Japan, The Republic of Italy and Canada. The European Commission is also represented."
http://www.g8.gov.uk/servlet/Front?pagename=OpenMarket/Xcelerate/ShowPage&c=Page&cid=1078995912414
This entire "flip-flop" issue is a media manufactured pile of crap. The Repubs made good use of it back in 2004 and Dems are still all sore and defensive because of the truly distorted and disgusting way that Bush and Co. used it to attack Kerry.
This doesn't mean its a substantive issue. Changing your mind shouldn't be a political sin. WHY they are changing their minds is important, not the simple fact that they are changing them. The assumption behind every minor position tweak is that it is cynically aimed at grabbing more votes. In many cases this is true, but not all.
The point of this thread should not be "oh god McCain flip-flopped" but to recognize that this issue is retarded and accusing your opponent of "flip-flopping" is a hollow accusation devoid of substance and you should be laughed at for it.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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DRgonzo is spot on today!
Nice list....
Waiting on fattrad to defend the flip flop...
Oh wait- when a republican candidate flips they call it changing their mind- expanding their opinions...
ks
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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This is why we cannot trust him in the oval office!
McCain? no thanks... More of the same
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Boy the absence of fatturd in this thread is...
Just what you'd expect!!
Yoo can hide, and you can run, but you can't answer these points very well, can you Fatty?
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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still waiting on fatty...
must be hiding in his spider hole with his millions.....
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Changing your mind shouldn't be a political sin.
I fully agree with this. It is the WHY that is all important.
If somebody changes their mind because of new and important information, I call that wise.
If somebody changes their mind because it makes them look better (for example, to the folks with
deep pockets), then that's whimpy.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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So, dodge em there Fatty.
But you got the fundamentals wrong:
McCain: Torture, warmongering, senility.
Obama: anti-torture, not senile, unwilling to start war over lies or oil.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Dude, you still haven't answered anything.
Til you do, no soup for you!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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this 'flip flop' crap has gotten out of control.
Have you ever changed your mind about something based on new facts presented?
Is this all we're looking at in politics now?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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LEB- Kerry was no such thing. The "difference" is that you want to like McCain and you didn't want to like Kerry. Look at how you defend flip flopping but then bend over backwards to make an exception for the last Democrat. What did he flip-flop on that was so devastating? Nothing. He was just the victim of a very successful negative campaign.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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So Fatty, you and John, get along quite well do you?
Done any toe tapping in the restroom together?
I hear that is a republican thing.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Have you ever changed your mind about something based on new facts presented?
Yes, many times. If you haven't, then I feel for you.
For example, I have changed my mind on the movie Zeitgeist based on the rebuttal. I need to look at more of the rebuttals to see how much of the Internet feature I believe, but there's good evidence that a lot of it is bull.
Still, I have looked at the evidence on the 9/11 conspiracy and I've yet to go with the official story, based on evidence. How about you, blue? You believe all the bull in the 9/11 Commission Report? Or will you look at evidence and have that factor in your beliefs?
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Hooray! for the Chicken Skinner!
KEN FOR PRESIDENT ('specially of Yosemite)!!!!!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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We know fatty. Asking him all of our questions.
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