Voting Reform. We the people... more perfect union

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Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 12, 2018 - 12:01pm PT
excerpt from https://www.economist.com/leaders/2018/07/12/american-democracys-built-in-bias-towards-rural-republicans

The author proposes two options. Ranked choice voting and multi member districts.

I'd welcome posts with citations about where and how those options work or don't work. If you are going to go all political post, there's another thread.


But it is climbing related in as much as climber's need to retain access to recreational opportunities. Recreation doesn't seem to be exclusively one party or the other so a system that respects the problem of the 'tyranny of the minority' vote in representative government is something relevant to climbers and worth discussing at a structural level.

EVERY system for converting votes into power has its flaws. Britain suffers from an over-mighty executive; Italy from chronically weak government; Israel from small, domineering factions. America, however, is plagued by the only democratic vice more troubling than the tyranny of the majority: tyranny of the minority.

This has come about because of a growing division between rural and urban voters. The electoral system the Founders devised, and which their successors elaborated, gives rural voters more clout than urban ones. When the parties stood for both city and country that bias affected them both. But the Republican Party has become disproportionately rural and the Democratic Party disproportionately urban. That means a red vote is worth more than a blue one.

The consequences are dramatic. Republicans hold both the houses of Congress and the White House. But in the three elections in 2012-16 their candidates got just 46% of the two-party vote for the Senate, and they won the presidential vote in 2016 with 49%. Our voting model predicts that, for Democrats to have a better than 50% chance of winning control of the House in November’s mid-term elections, they will need to win the popular vote by around seven percentage points. To put that another way, we think the Republicans have a 0.01% chance of winning the popular vote for the House. But we estimate their chance of securing a majority of congressmen is about a third. In no other two-party system does the party that receives the most votes routinely find itself out of power (see Briefing).
This imbalance is partly by design. The greatest and the smallest states each have two senators, in order that Congress should represent territory as well as people. Yet the over-representation of rural America was not supposed to affect the House and the presidency. For most of the past 200 years, when rural, urban and suburban interests were scattered between the parties, it did not. Today, however, the 13 states where people live closest together have 121 Democratic House members and 73 Republican ones, whereas the rest have 163 Republicans and just 72 Democrats. America has one party built on territory and another built on people.

The bias is deepening. Every president who took office in the 20th century did so having won the popular vote. In two of the five elections for 21st-century presidents, the minority won the electoral college. By having elected politicians appoint federal judges, the American system embeds this rural bias in the courts as well. If Brett Kavanaugh, whom President Donald Trump nominated this week, joins the Supreme Court, a conservative court established by a president and Senate who were elected with less than half the two-party vote may end up litigating the fairness of the voting system.

This bias is a dangerous new twist in the tribalism and political dysfunction that is poisoning politics in Washington. Americans often say such partisanship is bad for their country (and that the other lot should mend their ways). The Founding Fathers would have agreed. George Washington warned that “the alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge…is itself a frightful despotism”.

As a component of partisanship, the built-in bias is obviously bad for Democrats. But in the long run it is bad for America as a whole, including Republicans. When lawmaking is paralysed, important work, such as immigration and entitlement reform, is too hard. The few big laws that are approved, like Barack Obama’s health-care reform or Mr Trump’s corporate-tax cuts, pass on party-line votes. That emboldens the opposition to reverse or neuter them when they take power. Meanwhile, the task of resolving the most divisive political issues often falls to the courts. The battle over Mr Kavanaugh’s confirmation will be a proxy war over issues, like abortion and health insurance, better suited to the legislature.

Some may ask why Democrats do not return to positions that appeal to rural voters (see our special report). Recall how Mr Obama won the presidency opposing gay marriage and Bill Clinton built a coalition in the centre-ground. But rancorous political disputes—over guns, abortion and climate change—split so neatly along urban-rural lines that parties and voters increasingly sort themselves into urban-rural tribes. Gerrymandering and party primaries reward extremists, and ensure that, once elected, they seldom need fear for their jobs. The incentives to take extreme positions are very powerful.

Bitter partisanship, ineffective federal government and electoral bias poison politics and are hard to fix. Changing the constitution is hard—and rightly so. Yet the voting system for Congress is easier to reform than most people realise, because the constitution does not stipulate what it should be. Congress last voted to change the rules in 1967.
Second thoughts about first-past-the-post
The aim should be to give office-seekers a reason to build bridges with opponents rather than torch them. If partisanship declined as a result, so would pressure on voters to stick to their tribe. That could make both parties competitive in rural and urban areas again, helping to restore majority rule.

One option, adopted in Maine this year and already proposed in a bill in Congress for use nationwide, is “ranked-choice voting” (RCV), in which voters list candidates in order of preference. After a first count, the candidate with the least support is eliminated, and his or her ballots are reallocated to those voters’ second choice. This continues until someone has a majority. Candidates need second- and third-choice votes from their rivals’ supporters, so they look for common ground with their opponents. Another option is multi-member districts, which were once commonplace and still exist in the Senate. Because they aggregate groups of voters, they make gerrymandering ineffective.

Voting reform is not the whole answer to partisanship and built-in bias, but it would help. It is hard, but not outlandish. To maintain the trust of all Americans, the world’s oldest constitutional democracy needs to reform itself.
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Jul 12, 2018 - 12:14pm PT
The first step would be removing the big money from politics.
The US system is too corrupt.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Oceanside
Jul 12, 2018 - 12:23pm PT
I like the ranked voting. Technology makes a lot of things possible.

Getting the money out of politics will require putting the Democrats in charge and passing a constitutional amendment. We are going in the wrong direction for that to be happening.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 12, 2018 - 12:28pm PT
A cause I would give time and money!

Liberals and conservatives overwhelmingly support a constitutional amendment that would effectively overturn the Supreme Court’s seminal campaign finance decision in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission, according to a new study from the University of Maryland and nonpartisan research group Voice of the People

Three-fourths of survey respondents — including 66 percent of Republicans and 85 percent of Democrats — back a constitutional amendment outlawing Citizens United.

The study also indicates that most Americans — 88 percent overall — want to reduce the influence large campaign donors wield over lawmakers at a time when a single congressional election may cost tens of millions of dollars.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2018-05-10/study-most-americans-want-kill-citizens-united-constitutional-amendment
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 12, 2018 - 12:45pm PT
The winner-take-all two party system is the problem.
The concept of compromise is virtually unknown to Americans.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2018 - 12:57pm PT
Is getting the money out of two party systems a prereq to either ranked choice or multi district voting? Does the current dominant party have no interest in either option until monied interest is shifted out?
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Jul 12, 2018 - 01:15pm PT
Ranked choice and multi-districts within the states will not significantly fix the rural / urban divide that allows a minority excess power. It might help elect people who represent their entire area instead of pandering to a party extreme.

The rural/urban problem could only be fixed by changing the national voting system that allows votes in small states to count many times higher than votes in large states, especially votes for the US Senate and presidency.

NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Jul 12, 2018 - 04:20pm PT
Ranked choice sounds like a step in the right direction for voting.

I wonder if an alternate version of governance in America that empowered more differences in rural vs urban governance would be more helpful:
1. Enable county-wide governments to have a lot of legislative power.
2. reduce power at state level, because it is not specific enough to arbitrate rural vs urban lifestyles, and it is duplicative of more general issues that could be resolved at national level
3. Get rid of federal legislation related to divisive issues
4. Ensure Federal regulation that protects individual freedom of mobility to get the h3ll out of counties with unfriendly laws


Would this enable more experimenting with laws and show us the economic fate of counties that enact legislation that is bad for people?

How to protect counties from the financial corruption that giant and even medium corporations can easily afford at county level politics?

Any issue that affected the health or well-being of people in a different county would imply that a bigger/national law is required. So environmental regulations would have to be a national issue. Banking/finance laws would have to be a national issue.

Immigration would also have to be a national issue because one permissive county could cause lots of consequences in other counties. Then again, it would also be justifiable as a county-specific thing where enforcement was limited to the jurisdictions in question, and people in the area can decide whether draconian enforcement is a net benefit or detriment to the economy and safety of the region. Areas with tight enforcement would naturally have fewer illegal immigrants over time, and enjoy both the benefits and detriments of this enforcement.

EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Jul 12, 2018 - 05:44pm PT
Ranked choice sounds like what they have in France. It would allow the Rosses and Bernies a chance to compete.

First we need to fix campaign finance. It's by far the worst problem. Then we need new laws for district boundaries. No more gerrymandering!

Then maybe we can scrap the electoral college system.

The whole system is in need of an overhaul.

I wonder if the masses would care as much about this problem as they do about illegal immigration or #metoo? Or will they say "there's nothing we can do about it"? I remember people saying the same thing when Ross Perot talked about auditing the government. Remember those pie charts? People said "no way! The government it too big!" Bill Clinton proved everybody wrong.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jul 12, 2018 - 06:09pm PT
The consequences are dramatic. Republicans hold both the houses of Congress and the White House. But in the three elections in 2012-16 their candidates got just 46% of the two-party vote for the Senate, and they won the presidential vote in 2016 with 49%. Our voting model predicts that, for Democrats to have a better than 50% chance of winning control of the House in November’s mid-term elections, they will need to win the popular vote by around seven percentage points. To put that another way, we think the Republicans have a 0.01% chance of winning the popular vote for the House. But we estimate their chance of securing a majority of congressmen is about a third. In no other two-party system does the party that receives the most votes routinely find itself out of power (see Briefing).

Republicans have the White House because Trump won the Electoral College. But I'm having trouble figuring out the rest of that. How does a Senator in a one on one race get elected with a minority of the public vote. It can't happen. How do you win Congressional seats with less than half the vote?

He's looking at the numbers for all of the races in the Senate and the House as one big statistic. If the Reps win some races in small states or districts with low votes, they could come out overall with more seats and fewer votes. But not on a per race basis. This statistical hogwash. They can only win a seat by winning the most votes.

A president can win with a minority of the public vote because the EC weights the power of the big states over the small. Lincoln won in a four way race with 36% of the popular vote - a plurality but not a majority. But he had a landslide in the EC.

But in Congressional races, each candidate wins a seat by getting the most votes in their state or district. If one party has more seats it means that they won in each local election. Tallying the total votes for all seats, and using those numbers to claim that the Reps have the House and Senate against the wishes of the majority is grabbing at straws. On top of that it seems to me he writes this in such a manner as to be very difficult to understand, so the average person's takeaway will be that Reps are being elected unfairly, and to fix it we must revamp our voting system.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Jul 12, 2018 - 07:29pm PT
It's an irrelevant statistic. The Republicans won more seats by winning individual elections. The total number of Democrats who voted vs the total number of Republicans doesn't matter. The individual races matter.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Jul 12, 2018 - 09:41pm PT
No system is perfect but some are worse than others.

I think a proportional system is generally better. And you could have a proportional congress and still directly elect a president.

Nothing wrong with dreaming about how the world could be better but I don't see any way to get a constitutional amendment passed. Without an amendment, this is all wishful thinking.
clinker

Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
Jul 13, 2018 - 06:04am PT
tyranny of the minority.

Invalid without color code.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 13, 2018 - 07:48am PT
We’ve been ratfooked. The dominant party (ruling with minority support—never forget) is ruling in bad faith. There can be no progress until they are crushed.
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