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Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 25, 2016 - 11:45am PT
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In light of Donini's post. I'm interested on streamlining belay changeovers particularly on slabs where all the gear is normally on your harness. It seems like with steeper routes the gear sling is the way to go. However even cleaning a slab pitch with a sling over your shoulder kinda sucks cause the gear hangs around your feet.
Thanks for advice in advance.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 25, 2016 - 01:29pm PT
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Swap leads.
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Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2016 - 01:33pm PT
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Actually swapping leads seems to be the slowest because of having to re rack all the gear on the other persons harness. Block leading, the leader already has the gear organized by size and the second just needs to give the leader the gear placed on the previous pitch. (Less gear to swap)
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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May 25, 2016 - 01:42pm PT
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Many years ago I was on the triple direct, down low and I was at the belay as my partner followed. I think it was Ed Lau now that I think about it.
Anyway, a couple of euros were climbing through on the heart route I guess it was and the leader came to me at the belay and I simply pointed to the equalized sling point and he nodded and clipped into it and had his partner on belay in less than about 20 seconds. Partner showed up in what seemed like 6 minutes later and was immediately off on lead.
10 mins later my guy leaves and they are dust in the wind.
Typical euro trash. Seems they had the whole belay switch thing down pat though.
Some German sounding name. I think it was Huber or something... :D
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 25, 2016 - 02:20pm PT
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You're bringing too much gear then. ;-)
I typically use 2/3 or more of the gear on every pitch. The second certainly has more gear than the leader at the belay.
I guess a slab pitch in the middle of a non slabby route would be the exception.
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Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
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Quite possibly bringing too much gear but there in lies the rub. That's what I was referencing in Donini's post. Racking doubles .6-3" cams, plus nuts, draws, free biners, nut tool, and belay device on your harness is alot of sh*t. Making for slow belay changeovers.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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May 25, 2016 - 02:32pm PT
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Actually swapping leads seems to be the slowest because of having to re rack all the gear on the other persons harness. Block leading, the leader already has the gear organized by size and the second just needs to give the leader the gear placed on the previous pitch. (Less gear to swap)
There is no best way which can be applied to every climb. Aside from both individuals being EFFICIENT, not much can be applied to every single climb. On some climbs it is easier to swap, and on others block leads are the way. Also, something to consider is the individual strengths and weaknesses. Guy who is better at finger cracks can get those pitches and partner who is better at slab, can get that.
If swapping leads, the follower should be good at racking up as he cleans the gear and the leader should have all the leftover gear ready at the belay, on a sling. You can practice this on easier climbs with someone psyched to learn efficiency. Or incorporate it over time into your own practice. Not all multi pitch climbs are about being FAST. Most of the time it is nice to climb at whatever is the enjoyable pace, so that the whole experience does not feel rushed.
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Killer K
Boulder climber
Sacramento, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2016 - 02:45pm PT
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Thanks V! Helpful info. That is the kind of tip that I'm looking for. I wanna top out Charlotte Dome with daylight to spare. I've never climbed a route with 12 pitches before. Cathedral Peak is my closest comparable route that I've climbed at 6 pitches... We started at 1pm from the TM trailhead and finished the descent at dark. Was one of the most memorable experiences of my life.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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May 25, 2016 - 03:10pm PT
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South Face is a great first long route. Was my first long 5.8 in the mountains, longest climb to date and I was worried about finishing in daylight too. Because it is not sustained, it goes quick. It was originally rated III. If I could do it again, I would worry less and be psyched more, as it is a really cool climb! Have fun!
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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May 25, 2016 - 04:38pm PT
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One thing that saves time is for the leader to look at the next pitch and anticipate if the second (the leader for the next pitch) will be exiting the belay to the right or left, or straight up, and to set up your belay stance , anchor , rope management (stacking) and facing direction accordingly. When your second comes up, they are set up to take off quickly after gear exchange. This saves far more time than anything to do with racking.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 25, 2016 - 06:31pm PT
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Get Hans' speed climbing book if you don't already have it. Speed climbing is about efficiency not rushing.
http://www.amazon.com/Speed-Climbing-Climb-Faster-Better/dp/0762730951
After I learned a lot of speed climbing techniques my climbs feel LESS rushed because we are usually making good time and no one is breathing down our necks from below, so we can take the time to have a nice lunch break, take pictures, etc.
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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May 25, 2016 - 06:34pm PT
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My partner and I started switching that "climb to strengths" idea to the opposite. He was the power lb, face climbing guy, and I was the straight in crack and OW guy, but that's no fun, and how are you going to get better on your weaknesses?
Handing gear over is hardly the big time suck. Proper rope management/stacking/hand over/belay switch impacts your time a whole lot more.
Belaying your follower on auto-block and hydrating, gu-ing etc. also helps.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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May 25, 2016 - 06:47pm PT
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If I climb with a double rack, I clip each size cam together so I can unclip one piece and use it, and then the other. Each piece of gear has a dedicated wiregate, except for stoppers. That way when it is time to switch gear off your harness, its half as many clips to do it, and speeds things up.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 25, 2016 - 08:01pm PT
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Clipping two of the same pieces together is a good idea and it reminded me that I finally got around to buying the color coded racking biners last year. It actually helps picking the right piece quicker (you just look at the biner instead of the cam and then having to trace it to the biner to unclip) and it helps speed up racking, especially with doubles.
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christoph benells
Trad climber
Tahoma, Ca
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May 25, 2016 - 08:12pm PT
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i get pissed at slow leaders.
most time gets eaten up by overly slow leading, and making overly complicated anchors.
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WBraun
climber
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May 25, 2016 - 08:15pm PT
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Putting gear on harness loops is stupid.
Put it on gear slings.
Come to the belay station and just grab the gear sling with everything on it and keep moving.
You don't even need to stop at the belay just keep moving.
You don't even need to organize the the gear.
A good climber can grab an unorganized rack and still efficiently use it and not slow down.
Tooo much talk slows one down ....
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jeff constine
Trad climber
Ao Namao
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May 25, 2016 - 08:18pm PT
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Thanks WB !!
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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May 25, 2016 - 08:24pm PT
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I slowed down as I improved and got older - need time to de-pump. Climbs that I can do quickly and continuously are probably also boring and easy - and crowded. What's the hurry, I'd rather be on the climb than pretty much anywhere else. Speed is mostly a function of your experience and mileage.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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May 25, 2016 - 09:52pm PT
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I agree with Werner about racking on slings, although I'm not a good enough climber to totally just grab 'n go.
If each cam is racked on its own biner, then the second can have the cleaned cams and quickdraws all ready for the next lead. But nuts racked on quickdraws are a bit too much for me to cope with unless the pitch is well under my (ever decreasing) limit. So grab the gear sling from the belayer, just rerack the nuts, and keep going with gear now on two slings. I can manage this for perhaps three pitches, and then things are messed-up enough that the sling contents have to be consolidated.
I think another important efficiency is to make sure that no one is ever idle. In particular, is is usually a waste of time to be belaying the leader while they are setting up their anchor. The leader should tether into the first anchor piece and call off belay so that the second can get busy getting totally ready to climb, with only one piece left in the anchor, so that when the leader pulls up the rope and is on belay, the second is ready to go almost immediately.
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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May 25, 2016 - 10:19pm PT
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The harder the climb the more disorganized the rack is when the second hands it back.
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