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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 20, 2006 - 07:11am PT
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A few question for those who might know the answers:
1. Did Bill Forrest license his patent [# 4,446,944, March 9 1983] to Yates?
2. Now that this patent has expired [March 9 2003] it seems that Petzl developed a similar device called the Nitro3. Was this event coincidental or was Petzl waiting to market such a device as the market may or does support more than one brand of energy absorbsion device?
3. Has the issue of gate flutter been completely resolved with the incorporation of wire gate biners into the 'Screamer' system? Or does gate flutter still occur, even with wire gate biners, in some instances? I can't imagine a difficult aid pitch with a half-dozen of these things all using lockers.
4. Does anyone remember what the Forrest device was called? Maybe 'Forrest Fall Arrest' or something like that? Does anyone have one still? And if so, does anyone want to sell it?
Thanks!
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Sep 20, 2006 - 10:28am PT
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iirc, the petzl product(or some variant of by them)has been around for a few years. seems that theirs was more marketed to the via ferrata crowd. maybe they're just trying to grab more market share w/ a new audience?
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JMC
climber
Tucson
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Sep 20, 2006 - 10:30am PT
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Forrest's patent covers a different means of shock absorption than the screamer.
Forrest: "a series of variable length shock absorbing straps made of undrawn nylon are attached to a longer back-up strap made of non-stretchable material"
vs.
Yates: exploding stitching
p.s. - in response to Petzl's STRAP ON THE NITRO shock absorber, a version of this has been made by Charlet Moser (now a Petzl bitch) for quite some time.
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Rock!...oopsie.
Trad climber
pitch above you
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Sep 20, 2006 - 11:31am PT
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Mammut makes screamer style shock absorbers too. Theirs are much more compact since they are made with a high tech fiber (dunno which one offhand) runner instead of the fat nylon webbing that yates uses. Spendy little buggers at around $25 a pop though. Seen them around for a couple years at least.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 20, 2006 - 12:56pm PT
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The "gate flutter" deal was with Wild Things "Air Voyagers" that had a long series of horizontal bar tacks versus the continous, vertical stitching on Screamers and like products. These continuously stitched products don't produce nearly as pronounced an effect in that regard. Wiregates deal fine with whatever residual effects today's products exhibit. Gotta love'm...
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Sep 20, 2006 - 01:05pm PT
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anyone have any more experience w/ screamers and drilled angles in sandstone?
i remember ammon's TR about the streaked wall and a big fall he took onto the anchor while short fixing, and some speculation there.
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Gunkie
climber
East Coast US
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 20, 2006 - 05:54pm PT
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Thanks for the info! healyje was right, it was those Air Voyagers that had those crosswise bar tacks that blew. I still have one. Maybe I'll take it out back and use a funkness on it just to see if I'm getting gate flutter :)
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Sep 21, 2006 - 12:26pm PT
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The Mammut screamers also use the horizontal bar tacking which will cause the gate flutter. I'm not so sure I'd trust it all to the wiregates. Yates makes a better product and they're cheaper... How can you go wrong?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Sep 21, 2006 - 01:30pm PT
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While we had heard of the issue, we when through several dozen Air Voyagers while working on a route at Crow Hill and never had a problem. We would also pre-sliced them with a razor blade at a steep angle so they loaded softer and then pre-sliced them again after each fall. Handy gadgets...
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