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Pman
Trad climber
Upstate NY
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 15, 2006 - 08:25am PT
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Before I present my question, I'd like to mention that I've search the archives here on ST (and elsewhere)but have yet to find a thread addressing this exact issue with bolt replacement. It might exist, but I didn't seem to find it.
I've been reading about replacing these 5 piece bolts and have come across a number of articles that mention removing the bolt, and if the sleeve is undamaged, then the opportunity exists to place a new internal bolt (same length as the original) into the old sleeve and re-tighten. Does a new internal bolt in conjunction with an old sleeve/expander cone represent a full strength placement? I guess I'm wondering about the relation of decay with the internal bolt to the sleeve/cone. Does the bolt seem to be the part that breaks down first in these 5 pieces.
pman
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Kevster
Trad climber
Evergreen, CO
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Sep 15, 2006 - 10:28am PT
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While I am no expert at the degredation of fixed anchors, the one thing that has always bothered me with 5 piece bolts is not being able to assess the integrity of the nose cone. Assuming that you are replacing the bolt because it is getting old and rusty makes me think that the nose cone is probably in the same shape. If you replace everything but the nose cone you could be leaving a time bomb for someone in the future, one that looks like a brand new bolt.
I think that if you are going to take on the responsibility of replacing a bolt you better make damm sure your replacement is bomber. The best way I have found to remove the nosecone is first to disengage the sleeve by loosening the bolt and giving it a tap with the hammer. Next take off the bolt and hanger and try to remove the sleeve with needlenose pliers. Once the sleeve is gone put the bolt back on and tighten it a bit then funk the bolt with the nosecone attached. If the sleeve is rusted in place I usually try to funk the whole bolt out, which is often easier than you would hope.
Lot's of people would probably disagree with me but I believe if you are replacing a bolt you should replace it with a Fixe Triplex bolt that is made for climbing and is removable. Give Greg Barnes a holler, if he is around he will give you the experts opinion.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 15, 2006 - 01:28pm PT
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I've been thinking about this a lot lately... and the ASCA has a lot of info on its web site:
http://www.safeclimbing.org/
If you choose to take the responsibility to replace the bolt, you should be responsible. The only way of knowing the state of the hardware is to replace all of it. And I would also argue that when replacing bolts on an established route should be done in a manner which allows future maintenance, that is, using something that someone in the future can replace with minimal impact.
I recently came to this conclusion by f*#king up... more on that someother time.
Anyway, Greg, and others, can give you the benefit of their considerable experience.
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jstan
climber
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Sep 15, 2006 - 02:00pm PT
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While I have never had much to do with this stuff one question has occurred to me. Using a small portable cutting torch you should be able to take out any kind of bolt and be left with a hole that can be reused or adapted for reuse. Chopped bolts, whatever. There should be no need for rock that looks like it has had smallpox.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Sep 15, 2006 - 03:39pm PT
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side note
if the bolt depth is known to be a long 3 or 3.5 or 4, you can pop em and drop a slightly shorter one in. low probability of knowing the depth on most lines tho, and if using a long one its usually cuz the rock is bad and you want a long one anyways. oofa
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Sep 15, 2006 - 03:47pm PT
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I'd be surprised if the hex bolt on a Rawl/Powers is weak, even if it is discolored from some surface rust. There is a lot of steel in that 5/16" machine bolt. Why do you think it needs to be replaced?
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deuce4
Big Wall climber
the Southwest
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Sep 15, 2006 - 07:04pm PT
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I agree with Mr. Munge. If you can, replace it with a slightly shorter bolt, but then again, as long as the bolt catches the threads properly, the sleeve expands and you apply the right torque, it seems like you would have full strength.
Only one way to find out--get a hydraulic pull tester and do some tests.
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Pman
Trad climber
Upstate NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2006 - 08:19pm PT
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"Why do you think it needs to be replaced?"
I don't have a specific bolt in mind, I'm more interested in the thought process that says a bolt can be "reconditioned" by simply replacing the threaded bolt. I am under the impression that if a bolt needs to be replaced than the whole package should be of new materials. Just looking to for clarification or validation regarding this type of short-cut.
Thanks
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Sep 15, 2006 - 08:38pm PT
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replace is my thot.
why allow doubt to creep in.
funking out the cone with or without a sleeve can be a PITA!
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| Messages 1 - 9 of total 9 in this topic |
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