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adkeditor
Trad climber
Saranac Lake, NY
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 28, 2014 - 11:53am PT
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I have photos of nine old pitons on Chapel Pond Slab and am wondering if anyone can tell me anything about the history and age of them.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 28, 2014 - 12:24pm PT
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Photos 1-9 my best sight assessment.
1) Chouinard alloy angle added later
2) Army ring angle or imported likely original
3) Sporthaus Schuster or early Cassin ring blade likely original
4) Welded eye ring angle imported likely original
5) Army ring angle or imported likely original
6) Leeper alloy z-piton 1960 or later so added
7) Chouinard alloy steel angle added later
8) Can't see anything here
9) SMC alloy shallow angle added later
Cheers,
Steve Grossman
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PhilG
Trad climber
The Circuit, Tonasket WA
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Sep 28, 2014 - 12:44pm PT
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That dude knows his hardware!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Sep 28, 2014 - 01:01pm PT
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Steve's IDs look good.
This looks like a soft steel vertical piton, which has been pounded in
so far that it's not clippable anymore?
I.e. we can only its front cross section. The eye is (partly?) within the crack.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 28, 2014 - 01:54pm PT
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Definitely an old vertical and likely original. If it is over driven then it has a good chance of being an Army vertical as they were comparatively short on blade length.
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Sep 28, 2014 - 03:28pm PT
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Steve,
You certainly know your iron! Wouldn't it be nice to know who drove in those pins. I'm kind of a romantic and nostalgic climber these days, but I'm still getting out on the rock.
Had a good day today.
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adkeditor
Trad climber
Saranac Lake, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 28, 2014 - 04:13pm PT
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Steve, thanks for the detailed response. Which would you say is the oldest and about how old would you guess it is?
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 28, 2014 - 05:07pm PT
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The oldest pitons are likely going to be from the 1930s when Fritz showed up.
Unwelded ring angles, ring blades, somewhat dainty vertical and horizontal soft iron pitons from Sporthaus Schuster in Munich, Stubai in Fulpmes and Fritsch in Zurich were the main exporters of climbing hardware to the US before WW II as best I have been able to determine.
After WW II lots of relatively inexpensive military surplus ring angles, ring wafer, short vertical and short horizontal pitons became readily available.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Sep 28, 2014 - 05:34pm PT
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Phil, many climbers were visiting from Montreal from the 1930s to the present day. Empress and Victoria were established by Canadians. There were several Blacks gear shops and Le Cordee north of the border that sold plenty of soft iron well into the the 1970s. Skyline Outfitters in Keene run by Mary Schaeffer also had drawers of soft iron until she closed the shop in the early-1980s. Soft iron was often used to fix on routes as it was less likely to get pinched than the more modern Chouinard or SMC or Leeper pins and rusted more slowly.
Don Mellor and Tony Goodwin would be your best historical references.
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Lulz
Ice climber
North East
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Sep 28, 2014 - 06:08pm PT
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Eh, I pounded in a small BD angle in february 99 for a first belay after having scratched up 1/4 inch verglas and a tied off stubby.
But I think my partners may have cleaned it out.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 28, 2014 - 06:56pm PT
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Alloy steel pitons weren't readily available until the early 1960s so that is another good benchmark for these more modern pitons.
Chouinard Equipment, Longware, Dolt, Colorado Mountain Industries (CMI) and briefly Holubar and Gerry Equipment sold alloy steel pitons via mail order catalogs.
Todd- If you ever hear of catalogs from those suppliers that you mentioned, I would love to see them.
I am always interested in how hardware has made its way into North America.
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adkeditor
Trad climber
Saranac Lake, NY
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 30, 2014 - 11:19am PT
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Thanks, Todd. I'll see what I can find out.
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jstan
climber
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Sep 30, 2014 - 11:29am PT
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The clubs in Ontario that climbed with Turner would be sources of information. Very sad we can no longer go to the real sources.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Sep 30, 2014 - 12:06pm PT
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Helmut Microys and the ACC Toronto section for the 1960s qnd 70s...
... and the Bon Echo crew.
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Sep 30, 2014 - 01:12pm PT
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I've clipped into some of those. Am I gonna die?
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Sep 30, 2014 - 01:18pm PT
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Photos 1-9 my best sight assessment....
Holy crap
Amazing knowledge
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