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| Messages 1 - 18 of total 18 in this topic |
marky
climber
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I thoroughly enjoyed that, thanks.
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dryfly
Trad climber
utah
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very well written, and entertaining.
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Beyer is a froot loop, that is widely known.
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jack herer
climber
veneta, or
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 2, 2006 - 06:24pm PT
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Mabey Beyer has somewhat of a statement, filling in his holes to hopefully have the next person look to try and get around it. Mabey they can do so, thus bettering the style, mabey not drilling or just cleaning out the same holes as Beyer had done before. Drawing no topo he really didnt set a standard for the second ascent. Sure hes crazy but if you soloed that many hard walls wouldnt you be too?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand, Man.....
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That there Mr. Jensen is quite a story. Nice job.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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I just wanted to say, for the record, since the Mountain Project thread accuses us otherwise: We drilled NO holes when we did Intifada, and we did not "deepen" existing holes. I have no idea how THAT idea ever got started, since nobody was anywhere near us to actually see any such thing during our entire ascent. The place was deserted during our whole ascent. Just like Beyer (always solo), we were/are in the enviable position of being able to claim anything we want about our ascent! Unlike Beyer, though, we don't have a history of, well, shall we say, "problems" with being, well, shall we say, "forthright" about our climbing.
I DO know first-hand from Rob Slater that Bill Russell was hanging out at the Fisher Towers shortly after our ascent spouting off to his groupies that, being the "Mad Bolters," we had drilled the route down to our level. Slater was quite pissed off to hear this, having just gotten up the first five pitches of WoS. Rob pointed out how Russell had already failed on the first pitch of WoS and stated that he therefore surely knew that we would have no NEED to drill Intifada down to our level. (Rob was quite pleased with himself about this exchange when he told me about it.)
The only "enhancing" we did was with a small nail punch to pry out Beyer's existing worthless blobs of aluminum (when he had jerked the cables out on the clean and not bothered to remove the remaining blobs), and then "touched up" those already-existing trenches with the punch. So, that route was as close to "virtually the same" after we did it as you can possibly expect on a vertical beach. We DID bypass many of Beyer's holes.
Regarding whether or not we did the SA of the route, well, I guess since Beyer refuses to produce a topo of the heap, it remains unclear if Mark and I OR Wagner have done an SA of it. You know, start at the bottom, work your way on up....
One thing's for sure, even the Mountain Project thread's pitch-by-pitch description clarifies the fact we had noted from years ago: there is no "final death pitch," there are no "death belays" (unless you're incompetent), and the route as described in Climbing mag literally does not exist. It becomes clear that there are "Beyer true-believers" and "Beyer disbelievers," and I am firmly in the second camp.
The stuff in Climbing mag was written with Beyer's input and even later revision. He later clarified some things, such as that the claimed 38 hook moves were for the entire route, rather than for the last pitch. But, notice that he "failed to clarify" that Climbing mag's entire last pitch description was in error! There is no such last horrendous pitch! In fact, he "failed to clarify" that virtually everything Climbing mag had to say about the route was in error. For fun, just compare Folsom's route description with what Climbing mag had to say about the route. Is this the same route? For the "Beyer true-believers" I have to wonder how often someone can literally just make things up about a route before you start wondering what the real story is regarding all of his "descriptions." And, where are Beyer's TOPOs to these things??? Conveniently absent.
This is the last I intend to post about the route, but I wanted to go on record this once, lest people take silence as a tacit acknowledgment of what Ben Folsom has slanderously claimed.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Entertaining and informative story. I am glad that Mark and Richard are posting this on a website and sharing. One thing does seem strange to me though.
I did the Titan F of F route back in about 1983. I vaguely remember a summit register and that ours was around the 37th ascent or so. (Now time to fess up). There was a place on the lower 3 pitches or so where I absolutely could not see where people had gone before me. This seems strange to me since some of the angle holes were 1" or so and the route was generally easy to follow. I am also tall (not as tall as Kor though) The only description we had at that time was 50 Classic Climbs. At any rate, the rock in front of me seemed pretty solid for the Fishers but I took a KB and pounded it straight into the rock. No crack, some hard pounds and it seemed like a reasonable placement after tying it off..
My point is, I don't understand (based upon my limited hard aid experience) why drilling is required when it is possible to pound a piton directly into the rock. Obviously, the drill might leave a longer lasting placement. But if you are pounding pins anyway...It is also obvious that natural type placements are always better than simply pounding a pin directly into the rock but some of that sh%% is soft. Anyone got comments on this with regards to reallysoft rock like this?
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elcapfool
Big Wall climber
hiding in plain sight
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Comments?
Yeah, that ain't rock your climbing there son, that's sand...
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Russ Walling, can you please [url="http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=230822&f=0&b=0"]click here[/url] as I have a question for you, but want it on the other thread.
Christian - ditto. Questions for you, too.
Cheers, eh?
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MSmith
Big Wall climber
Portland, Oregon
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Some bands of Cottontail Tower probably meet the minimum standard of “rock,” but “sand” is great description for most of it. The upper part of Cottontail is literally dissolving and filling its cracks with its own mud flows. But pounding a KB straight into the wall? Incredible! I don’t doubt you, but it wouldn’t have occurred to me to even try. My take on the Intifada angle holes was that they could only have been placed into 3/8” drilled holes. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think you could wail away on an angle and have any hope of getting it to cut its own hole at the locations where they occur on Intifada. The mystery to the whole thing is “why.” There aren’t many of them, they occur next to useable natural features, and none occur anywhere near crux climbing.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Mark, I agree with you. I have placed drilled angles (as FA Anchors) in other southern Utah rock and I do not think I could have hammered an angle straight into the Fishers rock. A KB has a much smaller cross section, and it was by no means bomber but did hold body weight. The pics on your TR clearly show drilled angle placements.
On a side note, a friend of mine was jugging the bolt ladder near the top of the Titan (in the mid 80's). The rope exerted an outward force on one of Laytons original bolts and the bolt did not pull out. Instead the rock around the bolt cratered out leaving about a 2 inch crater! The bolt that pulled was only 1 1/2 inches or so long. Clearly, some parts of the Fishers barely meet the definition of rock, and perhaps do not even meet that definition...
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MSmith
Big Wall climber
Portland, Oregon
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“The rope exerted an outward force on one of Laytons original bolts and the bolt did not pull out. Instead the rock around the bolt cratered out leaving about a 2 inch crater!”
Holy cow! What kind of a bolt was it? I wonder if the quasi-rock of Fishers is of a structural nature such that the pressure of the bolt very slowly breaks down what little integrity the “rock “ has.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Mark if memory serves correctly it looked like a small stardrive type unit with a sleeve only about 1 1/2 inches or so in length and it did not look 3/8". double yikes.
At any rate, good story on those pages.
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edejom
Boulder climber
Butte, America
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Oct 23, 2011 - 02:46am PT
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Bump for two hard-aid climbing gentlemen--laying it on the line in search of truth and A5...
Well done ex post facto!
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Dos XX
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Oct 23, 2011 - 03:39am PT
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...Beyer is a froot loop...
I believe Beyer is a genius. He just doesn't play well with others. That's why he mainly did solo climbs.
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BASE104
climber
An Oil Field
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Oct 23, 2011 - 09:43am PT
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I think that the SA story of the route is pretty clear.
I knew Slater, and was a good dude. Slater said something and it could be taken to the bank.
I have a bud who has put up or repeated a ton of routes in the Fishers. He said that after you get through the mud, the rock underneath is so hard that you can bend a rurp.
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| Messages 1 - 18 of total 18 in this topic |
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