Cam Hooks
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Wheatus

Social climber
CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 11, 2003 - 04:13pm PT
Chris Mac has repeatedly stated the efficiency and value of cam hooks in many of his publications. He has stated that cam hooks are invaluable for speed ascents. Based on this information I purchased the two medium sized cam hooks last year.

In the last year I have been playing with Leeper cam hooks. Some placements are bomber while others are very insecure.
The cam hooks tend to tip out in many vertical crack placements where the two sides of the crack are not in the same plane. It seems that cam hooks are fairly secure in most horizontal cracks. Last year I brought them on a grade five but whimped out on using them high off the ground. Below are a few questions I would appreciate some feedback.

1) Is there a preferred size of vertical crack for the two medium sized cam hooks?

2) When placing the cam hook is it better to find small irregularities, constrictions, and or a slight taper?

Maybe I just don't have the huevos to trust this rather marginal piece of gear?
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Apr 14, 2003 - 01:30am PT
yes, cam hooks are spooky at first. During my first two years of wall climbing i heard my friends raving about them and thought "I don't care what you guys SAY, those things look dicey!!!"

After I got sick of hearing spew about them I decided I had to try them.

They WERE dicey!

But just at first. Once I stood on enough placements and got a feel for them, I began to wonder how I ever climbed without them. As insecure as they seem, knock on wood, I have never had a cam hook pull on me.

Start out slow. Just make a cam hook move every once in a while above a really bomber piece. As you gain confidence, you will recognize a good cam hook placement and then jump on it like it was a bomber #2 Camalot. After a few climbs, you will think nothing of making numerous cam hook moves in a row on hidieously exposed terrain like The Nipple pitch on Zodiac.

Having a slight taper in the crack makes a camhook feel much more bomber but it doesn't really matter. All you want is at least a 1/2 inch snugly in the rock.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Apr 14, 2003 - 02:36am PT
While you can use cam hooks in an inverted position (like under a roof) be careful using them in horizontal cracks. They are called "cam" hooks for a reason. They are much more secure when they are "cammed" rather than just being used like some kind of sky hook.

They really are a revolutionary piece of gear that saves all kinds of time and fiddling when the only alternatives are nailing or tricky nutting. Experiment and get used to them. Folks were comfortable with nuts when they were first being used. There was no security of hammering them in! Same with cams.

The key to not having an unpleasant surprise with cam hooks is keeping them weighted. For example, don't mindlessly bounce test your next piece while unweighting your cam hook and then jump back on it without paying attention.

Peace

Karl
Ben Rumsen

Mountain climber
Sacramento, CA
Apr 14, 2003 - 12:14pm PT
I played with some cam hooks this last Saturday after leading my 1st aid climbing after a 17 year pause. I did discover one thing - in shallow Lost Arrow scars I had a cam hook blow out the edge of the crack, creating a nasty spall. Hell, the cam hook in all likelyhood did more damage then a Lost Arrow placement would have by far. So it appears that cam hooks can cause damage of their own under certain circumstances. Was I doing something wrong, or is this a case of rotten rock?
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Apr 14, 2003 - 02:12pm PT
What type of rock was it? i've never had a camhook blow out solid granite.

Cam hooks do put more force on the crack than a nut or cam so on really fragile flakes you should be careful.

In solid granite, they do much more to preserve the rock than destroy it. in sandstone they are apparently more destructive.
Ben Rumsen

Mountain climber
Sacramento, CA
Apr 14, 2003 - 02:20pm PT
It was granite in Yosemite. One of those seam / cracks angling up a face, typical of the Valley. Hey, this old dog is willing to learn new tricks. I did use a 00 TCU for the 1st time in a pin scar and a slide ( ball ) nut - those are absolutely bomber! They didn't have cams smaller than a #1 Friend when I quit aid climbing in 1987, so those are a huge improvement. But doing a little " cam hook bouldering " in a shallow scar ( # 2 LA in 1/2 way would be my guess, if you used a pin placement ) was less successful. Do cam hooks work better in really hammered out placements? Maybe this was too obscure and not hammered out enough. I'll keep trying!
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Apr 14, 2003 - 02:38pm PT
Cam hook placements work best in placesments that aren't bottoming or flaring. Straightforward lost arrow placements and straight-in cracks are usually bomber.

The usual hangup in Cam Hook placements are in corners where the face of the corner won't let you get the blade of the hook far enough in the crack.

If you are returning to aid after a long period, see if you can pick up some smaller aliens (particularly blue,yellow,and red) and hb offset brass nuts. These items mork miracles. I'm not a gearhead but experience has proved to me what a difference they make. (which sucks because I allready had a full rack before I found this out and can't afford to simply buy, buy buy my way up the walls)

Peace

Karl
Ben Rumsen

Mountain climber
Sacramento, CA
Apr 14, 2003 - 03:09pm PT
Thanks Karl. Yeh, I've acquired Aliens ( offset ones too ) and HB nuts, plus TCU's. Not that I'm planning to do any trade routes ( I like my climbs obscure and off beat like me )! Despite the non climbing banter on this site, I've learned quite a bit about the current state of the art both here and places like reading your stories on your site too Karl. The camhook placement that blew on me was bottoming. I'll keep experimenting.
Wheatus

Social climber
CA
Topic Author's Reply - Apr 14, 2003 - 03:54pm PT
Thanks Chris and Karl for your advice and suggestions.
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