Chris McNamara
SuperTopo staff member
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A hammer is no longer necessary. A large pecker, cam hooks and offset micro nuts can get you around any of the places that fixed heads used to be mandatory
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kevinh
Trad climber
Fall City
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Are there still fixed heads on this route? wondering how prudent it would be to carry a hammer and an extra head for insurance
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willworkforfoodjnr
Trad climber
Huddersfield, England
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Hey guys, does anyone know if a DMM 4cu no 4 will work on the wide crack on p8?
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Oso Flaco
Gym climber
Atascadero, CA
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Chris,
What is included in the 3 groups of small cams in your rack photo below? I can't quite tell everything from the photo. Particularly the alien & hybrid alien sizes.
Also, I notice you racked cams like nuts with multiple pieces on a single biner. How many QDs, alpine draws, and/or free biners would you recommend bringing if using this setup?
thanks!
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hamid
Trad climber
Berkeley, California
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There was a spring near the base as of last week that one could easily draw as much water as needed
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micro_marc
Gym climber
Squamish
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We climbed this route a couple days ago, took maybe 10-12 hrs, it felt straightforward and we freed maybe 85% including P4-5-6 which were sublime. I felt compelled to Hebron however to WATCH OUT for a block in the corner in P11 that at first glance seems wonderful to throw a finger sized cam behind. It is hollow and will rip and likely cut the lead line and kill someone in the next few years, use a small bomber nut to the right. Please be safe and enjoy!
M-A
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jvSF
Trad climber
San Francisco
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A few notes from our Lurking Fear in-a-day climb this weekend (5/17/14). Climbed the route in 19:47 at 5.10 C2. I believe we aided and/or french freed on every pitch except for the last pitch. We block led 1-3, 4-9, 10-14, 15-19, with pitches 14-19 in the dark, which slowed us down.
Approach: Pretty straightforward hike to the base of the buttress. You have to drop down a little bit before starting up the 4th class so don't try to climb up too early. Fixed lines up to the base were in good shape.
Hooks: We only used a single cliffhanger and camhook. Used the cliffhanger on P1 and P12 (maybe a couple other places). Used the camhook at the top of P10, on P12, and start of P13. No hooks on the P7 traverse but still was tricky to follow.
Rack:
1 set DMM peanuts and offsets stoppers
C3: purple, red
Aliens: blue, green, yellow, red
C4: #0.3, #0.4, #0.5, #0.75 (2), #1 (2), #2 (2), #3, #4 (2), #5
offset metolius: purple/blue, blue/yellow, yellow/orange
Hooks: Cliffhanger, camhook, talon (not used), medium beak (not used)
special weapon: 1 Peztl Spirit quickdraw with a stiff gate for long reaches
Fixed gear: Very little fixed gear on the route (besides the bolts). A couple lower out slings on P7 and P12. A few pitons on P11 and P12 helped too. The fixed rope on Thanksgiving Ledge is in really bad shape and I would not trust it at all. It looks OK at first but as you traverse to the right it's totally shredded in a couple places.
Anchors: Most anchors looked good. Gear anchors were required at top of P14, top of P16, and right end of Thanksgiving ledge.
Ledges: Lots of hanging belays. Descent stances at P1, P3, P9, P13, P16, P18. Great ledges at P14 and P17.
Pitch lengths: Many of the pitches were longer than indicated in the supertopo.
Top out: We did the top out in the dark so it probably seemed more complex than it is. From the top of P19 you can step right to a sandy platform (exposed). From there we scrambled up and right to the base of a slab that had a ~60 ft fixed rope up to a tree (~210 ft). From the tree we again headed up and right, traversing/walking right to a large tree with a steep dropoff to the right and headwall above. From the big tree, headed up about 15 ft then walked left about 50 ft to the base of a gulley. We took the gulley straight up about 100 ft with scrambling on rock through some manzanita to the summit. Once on top we were much higher than expected and had to descend a bit to get on track for the east ledges descent. Would be tough with a haul bag.
Descent: Ropes on east ledges appeared to be in good shape.
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alina
Trad climber
CA
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Route is dry as of the Ides of March.
Thanksgiving Ledge was amazing (bivy for a king in the cave!). No trash. Thanks for keeping it clean!
I led the 5.10 or C2 hooks variation on p11 via a dynamic hook placement at the end of a stiff sports draw. So it's doable if you're slightly under 5'6".
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Cicch
Trad climber
Sebastopol, CA
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A critical over site on the LF topo; it specifically says the last two pitches can be linked with a 60m rope -not true-
We decided to link the pitches to save time because our bag was light so hauling was less of a problem. The anchors are about 30ft short of 60m. While trying to save time we ended up spending at least an extra hour if not two down climbing, rappelling to clean gear hauling and re leading the last pitch. Also verbal communication between the last pitch and Thanksgiving ledge is poor at best so this could lead to a dangerous situation. We came to the conclusion that all the pitch lengths were measured with a 70m rope that was thought to be a 60m so they were all off by at least 15 to 30ft (not too significant but noticeable). Also pitch 15 was said to be 120ft but is really 180-190ft. Overall an awesome climb.
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briham89
Big Wall climber
santa cruz, ca
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Thanks for the heads up Chris!
And adding to your rap info below... Instead of just tying a big knot to stop the rope on a single line rappel, I would: tie an alpine butterfly knot on the side you aren't rappelling on, and then clip a locking biner from that knot to the other side of the rope (the side you are rapping on). This is much safer than just a big knot.
This beta is less for you (I know you know way more than I do) and more for less experienced climbers who might get in a bad situation.
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Chris McNamara
SuperTopo staff member
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Based on the recent El Cap tragedies, I feel compelled to mention again that loose blocks kill. Even the most trade of trade routes have them. Be aware. There is a block on pitch 11 that will probably release in the next decade and likely because someone puts a cam behind it instead of using a nut to the right. Don't be that person!
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Chris McNamara
SuperTopo staff member
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Rapping the Route From Pitch 11 with a 70m rope (and some tag line)
The beta below is super advanced and a little dangerous. I'm torn between posting. It can help people out of a jam like it did for us but if you do it wrong you put yourself in even more danger.
Best to just bring a second rap line!!
To reiterate: I dont recommend this to anyone as it is dangerous and a pain in the ass. But if you are an In A Day Team that is stupid enough like me to not bring a rappel rope, here is how you rap from pitch 11 with one 70m rope.
First off, it barely works and doesn't work on many pitches. The only way to make it on some pitches is to actually use the rope stretch of the rope. Yes this is as dumb as it sounds. And it's scary.
The way you do this is:
1 - thread an end of the rope through the rappel point (chains/cold shuts/leaver biners)
2 - one person ties into the end of the rope and the other person puts the person on belay (to lower) with a grigri. have the person who is being lowered take the jumars in case they need to get back up.
3 - one person is lowered down to the next anchor and then clips in with their two daisy chains
4) the second can now rap the other end of the rope with a grigri. they need to make sure they are tied into the end of the rope as well or there is a MASSIVE knot in it
The whole point of this method is it "lengthens" your rope by stretching it out... which on this rappel scenario you need for some rappels!
An 80m rope would probably be easy to descend with from 11. I have no idea what you would do if you had to descent from 12 with one rope.
The raps
11 to 10, 10 to 9, 9 to 8, 8 to 7 all pretty straight forward (but still close!!!)
From 7 we rapped to a webbing anchor someone made 6 feet down and (climbers) left of the two cold shuts. Someone connected two of the massive buttonhead lead bolts with a cordelette. without this cordellete here you would need to use a bunch of slings to equalize a two bolt anchor. From this anchor you lower and then swing over to 5. If the wall is wet, this might be really hard.
It MIGHT work to use the cold shuts as an anchor but it also might make it too hard to swing to five.
5 to 4 is straight forward.
4 to 3 is TIGHT. barely barely worked with our rope, a sterling Sharma Rasta 70m x 9.8. a "shorter" 70m rope would not work.
3 to the bolted anchor below 2. THE CRUX. This DOES NOT WORK WITH A 70m rope alone. We had to incorporate our 50 ft of 7mm tag line. it was not pretty. Probably best to just burn more sling and make an intermediate anchor off two bolts in the free variation to pitch 3. It also MIGHT be possible to get from 3 to the official 2 belay in the topo. However, it also might be too hard to swing there and 70m might still not be enough rope.
From there to the ground rap the route.
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Chris McNamara
SuperTopo staff member
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Good beta, holly. BUT i will say that pitch 8, two modern #4 camalots are much nicer. I did this pitch yesterday with a modern (gray) # camalot and an older (purple). The purple is just not nearly as stable and not as nice for that size crack. so in the future i think i will just suck it up in bring the 2 new numper 4's and once #5 for pitch 17.
Here is the rack i brought
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hollyclimber
Big Wall climber
El Portal, CA
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Chris and all- the way to go is to bring 2 OLD #4 cams. They work perfectly on P 17. I almost got a new #5 stuck BAD 3 times even placing it carefully. Totally not worth the extra time to not get it stuck and find the few places it works. I have one "nice" old #4 on my rack and I also own one older double stem one that is my "lurking fear only" piece. Borrow or beg two old #4s for this pitch.
Old #4s are purple. By old I mean no clippy loop, but still single stem.
These #4s will also work perfectly everywhere else so you will save bringing a #5 but even better save time, frustration and save yourself from fixing it.
And no, I would not bring any beaks.
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Chris McNamara
SuperTopo staff member
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The reason to bring beaks is they can be hand placed. You can probably just bring one medium one.
I climbed this route about a month ago. For pitch 8, 2 #4 Black Diamond Camalots worked perfectly. For Pitch 17, I used the #4 Camalots and a #5 Camalot. It's a total pain in the ass to haul the number five all the way up the route for 8 feet of climbing, but I think it is still mandatory unless you are willing to really tip out a #4 Camalot (and it would be a bad fall if you popped).
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Jacemullen
Trad climber
Oceanside
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The Guide Book recommends Beaks, specifically 1 small, 1 med, 1 large.
Would you take them?
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nopantsben
climber
europe
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went from 10 to the bivy ledge. can't recall having a problem. the bivy ledge sucks though...
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lukebob
Trad climber
Denver, CO
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Regarding the, "80' swing around the arete", from the top of pitch 10 that puts you on the bivy ledge. Maybe I missed something...but I couldn't get to that ledge from pitch 10 without potentially having to aid/backclean up to it. I could swing/tension over to the crack 20' below the ledge and climb up to it....but wasn't sure if that's what most folks do. Do people swing directly to the bivy ledge from the top of pitch 10? That would be a hell of a swing for sure....and a big lower out the next morning. There were no biners/rings on the bolts for lowering out either. I ended up jugging back up to my partner, we climbed pitch 11 and made a nice easy 150' rappel to the bivy.
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fatbastard
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Found a bolt on pitch 11 bypassing the blown heads at the beginning of the right-facing corner. There was one more intact head a few moves up, but you could definitely top-step past it if it was gone.
Took some beaks for hand placing, but never used them. They just sat around in the bag, hooking stuff and being a pain in the ass.
Took a portaledge, but didn't use it, instead staying at the ledge near pitch 10 and at Thanksgiving. Hauling the ledge was annoying on the upper pitches and complicated things on the upper slabs. We brought it mainly because we were afraid of possible thunderstorms. If the weather is good and you climb fast enough to make the ledges, don't take a portaledge.
Pitch 14 was interesting. The "better way" listed on the topo is a little spooky, since there's no gear once you're up on the ramp. The ramp is easy, but you'll probably be happy to have freeclimbing shoes on. I traversed left after the 5.11/C2 flare, but before the wide pod, probably 30 feet below the 'through bush, then left' section on the topo. Lots of chickenheads, fun climbing, but a bit scary due to no gear, fragile knobs and bad fall potential. I'd call it 5.8R. This pitch is also longer than the topo claims, probably 150' instead of 100'.
Speaking of rope lengths, 15 and 16 are both longer than the topo indicates and pitches 18 and 19 DO NOT LINK with a 60m rope. The version of the topo we had said 80' and 120', looking at a different version, it says 100' and 150', which are the correct lengths.
The 400' of slabs above have several exposed sections and some tricky routefinding. We went straight up from the mantel boulder and fixed a line to the boulder next to the big tree, probably 180' feet up. There's some scrambling up and right from there, leading to a pine-needle covered, exposed corner step around. If we hadn't already coiled the ropes, it would have been nice to simul-climb this section. Finding your way through the slabs in the dark would be difficult. Just because the numbered pitches are done, it's not over until the pigs are on the top!
Bottom twelve pitches are 5 stars, upper pitches are 2 stars, Thanksgiving ledge is 5 stars and the slabs are 1 star, so I'm giving it a three star overall rating.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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bad idea IMHO. the upper corners get runoff and will get no direct sun til you hit tgiving ledge.
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Buju
Big Wall climber
the range of light
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I think that is a pretty bad idea. The last third of the route is low angle, ledgy, and subject to much runoff. Right now, there is 2-3 feet of snow on the summit, and it is probably melting down that section. Last time I did LF, it was early spring and the last pitches were soaked and lame. I cant imagine going through that right now with the temps we have been having.
Go do something on the right side and stay warm!
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pattonclimber
Trad climber
Scotts Valley
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Hey, hoping to do this route in the winter if weather allows. Is there major ice fall if there is snow up top? Weather looks good right now. Planning on doing it the second week of December. Also wondering about how much sun hits the route this time of year. Any thoughts?
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D-Rail
Trad climber
Calaveras
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Planning on doing this route in a day/push style this fall. Will we really need the whole supertopo recommended gear list? Triples from blue alien to #1 camalot seems reasonalble, but 2 #4s and 2 #5s? I am pretty good at french freeing stuff, but I don't want to fall to my death to save a 1/2 pound.
How do you usually clean the 7th pitch traverse? Do you backclean alot and just clip in to gear with tat on it for the second to lower out off, or do you just belay the second as they re-climb it?
Any other speedy beta would be helpful.
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Stonewalker
Big Wall climber
Smartsville, Ca
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if using hybrid master cams for this route, which size combinations would be best? i'm sure ALL of them would be helpful but more interested in the bread and butter sizes.
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Rudyj2
Sport climber
UT
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For bypassing the Window Pane Flake by using the left hand variation on pitch 3, a short cheat stick is all that is needed, as long as you are willing to bust out an easy free move or two between bolts. There is really only one place where the blank section between bolts requires a cheat stick or hard free. I used the tent pole for the portaledge fly and only used about 2' of it.
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Stonewalker
Big Wall climber
Smartsville, Ca
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if bypassing the window pane flake and taking the bolts to the left at the second belay, what kind of stick clip is needed? how long? what have others used for a stick clip?
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cmclean
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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We climbed it this past weekend (5/8-5/9). Pitch 15 was the only wet one; I was trying to free most of it since it's 5.6 to 5.8 to 5.10b and got pretty damp. The rest is bone dry. All required fixed gear is there (at least if you do the 5.10/A0 3rd pitch variation) so no hammer necessary. Didn't see any need for rivet hangers either.
In general I thought a number of pitches were longer than their stated supertopo lengths (at least in the upper 10 pitches).
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sharpend
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Can anybody give me beta on if this route is dry right now? From the comments I see below I'm thinking no.
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Joe Stern
climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Anybody have in-a-day beta for LF? Not really looking for techniques, but maybe a comparison between NIAD, 1/2 Dome, and LF exertion. Thanks - Joe.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
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Just got back from doing this one with Gomz.
I'll add some thoughts @ Ned's mantle pitch for now...
go 'the better way' but leave most of the rack at the belay. Tag it up once are in the groove part. Sticky rubber was critical for me to feel like I could even do it.
The upper part of the block above the bolt move of 'the better way' is loose and may come off if you yard on it. Don't! The rail part is still solid to pull up on though.
email me if you need more/recent before I get back around to this...
for pitches that I had info on or lead...
1. we did the crack and broke this pitch up to prevent rope drag from the corner. Not a 3" piece for me to make the reach to the bolt.
2.
3. Window Pane - stay lowish in the aiders. eyeball the crack size as you go and guage which pieces to leave behind. remember to save some larger and a gold camalot for near the top after the pendo. Lower to below the roof for the pendo. Use the bolt off right from the belay at the top of the pitch for the second to jug without the rope in the crack.
4.
5. pretty straight forward as I recall.
6.
7. sport hooking. start with a tension traverse. The pitch is longer you think. The last blocks before the anchor I had to free since the pro was expando in the blocks. The last good piece I had was a #4 camalot.
8. Gomz had to keep leaping. 60' run still possible even with 3 #4 camalots and 2 #5 camalots. all new style.
9. Tension step is easy. have a #2 camalot ready to go. I used big gear #5 camalot to pro the final moves plus some small gear. I missed that there is a bolt on the pillar itself just before the belay sloping ledge.
10. Seemed like a short pitch. We could see the hangers from the start.
11. The "tricky" move is just a hard to see placement. Not impossible. make sure you have hybrid aliens on this route. there is a hollow block that I avoided above the fixed head. The belay has some old pins up and right in addition to the 2 good bolts.
12. cam hook... fixed stuff. bring tie off sling to replace for lower outs. 'hook var' is the way to go. one moderate top step and some easy free got me away from the moves on the crack off left and low.
13. some loose. stay right, don't step into gulley too soon.
14. do 'better way' for sure, but there is a loose hand hold to avoid there too. carry a light rack and tag up the rest after freeing the ramp. sticky rubber saves the day. awk in the groove. use Russ/Fish topo instead of Supertaco for the upper part of this pitch. After the groove, get around a hollow block and pro with big gear before stepping left. use long slings for sure. the pitch is longer than as supertopo'd. the 5.7 is easy, but you'll need a #4 before you move left above. great belay ledge. some water was left here by a party before us. green soda and mountain spring 1.5 liter and some purple drink mix in a gallon jug with torn handle.
15.Gomz used cam hooks on this pitch. There may be more than one way to get thru this.
16. some cool free moves mixed with aid.
17. right above belay is a loose block to be avoided by a move right before going up. then 2 #5s and a #4 are the meat of the wide. but you'll need a range of sizes. tie off the chockstone in the second offwidth you climb around. above .75 and hybrid alien worked to protect the final free climbing thru a steep section. Haul off the bolts near the green lichen not by the cave. there was water on this ledge when we did it. multiple liters.
18. move the belay all the way to the corner, not just the far end bolt. go left into the slot groove, then take the crack in the left wall to the tree.
19. easy free to bolts. hauling is pretty easy still.
20. move belay kind of deal to next slab at boulder mantle. longish pitch.
21. another longish pitch to one of the trees next a boulder. surprising slab moves.
22. another slab haul since we were tired, used 3 #1 camalots in a crack just above a tree.
23. another slab haul since we were tired, 2 #3s and 2 #4s
24. another slab haul since we were tired, tied off boulder with the rope. easy to walk off from here.
gear:
1 talon, 1 grappling, 1 cliffhanger was sufficient for us.
there were no rivet hanger placements needed for leading, though I did some a couple belays down low that might accept a Moses hanger for stringing gear/ledges.
generally the hook moves were reachy. sometimes the tat was all I could reach from high steps on other placements.
I'm a punter, and I would want 2 #5 new, extra #4s new for pitch 8, and triples in the rest down to purple camalots, only doubles if your alien rack overlaps truly to cover for triple sizes. I would have like to have 2 green standard aliens for a couple pitches, but made do with only one in addition to our double rack of hybrid aliens up to red/yellows. offset nuts very nice addition. New style offset DMM nuts that replaced the HB are very soft alloy and get stuck easy.
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Erik Sloan
Big Wall climber
Yosemite Big Wall
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Amazingly splitter line, that only lacks the views of West Buttress or Lost World.
Pitch 6 anchor bolt nuts were very loose. They are big Petzls so you need a crescent that goes big.
If you're not planning on freeing much of the 8th pitch, it is nice to just continue
pitch 6 to the rappel belay at the end of the traverse(easy hooks and bolts). This allows you to link the last part of pitch 7 with pitch 8 for a 55-60m C1 pitch. The best part of this strategy is the cleaner on pitch 6 has all the rope to do the lower outs and clean the traverse. This effectively splits up the pitch 7 traverse so you never have to lower out your bags far and the sideways leading is easier as it is divided between the pitches. And it saves you a pitch.
With the new camalot sizes it was nice to have 2 ea #5 for the section before Thanksgiving.
There are many loose rocks near the lip on the Thanksgiving ledge traverse(from the cave over to the last pitch). The bushes had died so I broke them back but if anyone has extra time it would be nice to move these loose rocks away from the lip toward the back of the ledge(kinda a two person job but hard to explain).
Thank you Blake and Le Cap! Awesome times!
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Chris McNamara
SuperTopo staff member
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here is a discussion on rapping the route from Thanksgiving ledge. I dont recommend it.
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=797959
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slt climber
Sport climber
South Lake Tahoe, Ca
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I guess I should've read this page a few days ago. On Sunday afternoon while leading the second pithch in pouring rain I hooked the flake ( couple hundred pounds )not knowing it was loose.I was just able to yell down to my partner to watch out and it was off in my lap. Luckily nobody was below and it missed the rope and my partner ( by only a few feet ). There is now a nice ledge where it used to be.
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Luvshaker
climber
eugene
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Pitch 2 bolt ladder has a 100 lb flake that is going to let go soon. Be sure not to hook it, even though it looks safe from below.
If know one is below, have your cleaner let er fly!
My partner almost pulled it off in his lap.
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Isaac Tawil
Trad climber
NM
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I was the dude you passed on pitch 3. As it turned out the heads were gone, but we didn't have to take out the hammer. A couple of cam hooks get you through. The heads up higher were intact. ;)
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Impaler
Social climber
San Francisco
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The fixed heads on pitch 11 are in good shape as of 5/10/08. However, the ones on p. 3 "Window Pane Flake" were missing. A party that we passed on this pitch had a few heads with them, so they might have replaced those. We took the left "5.10 A0" variation and it worked great with a long stiff draw for clipping just out of reach bolts. The bolt on p 11 is the only rusty 1/4-incher on the route and needs replacement.
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Lambone
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Or
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Just like the book says, bring one hammer and a few heads. It may be clean/fixed now but a head could allways blow on you under body weight. Thet would leave you SOL. My guess is a lot of parties don't take a hammer up on LF.
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AronStock
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Does anyone know if this route goes clean right now? Is all the fixed stuff in place, or do I need a hammer? Thinking about doing this one in 2 weeks!
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climbingbuzz
Trad climber
SF, CA
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Route is dry this year as of Saturday.
The new C4 #4 isn't too safe in the OW before T-Giving ledge. It does work in a few spots, but it is either completely tipped out or barely cammed/contracted. Bring a new #5 or old #4, which is 8mm bigger than the new C4.
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Chris McNamara
SuperTopo staff member
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the 3 pithes leading up to thanksgiving ledge will be wet. but not too bad. not as bad as aquarian
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Lambone
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Or
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Is it fair to assume this route gets alot of spring runnof similar to Never Never Land and Aquairian?
Is it easy to tell from the deck?
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salad
Big Wall climber
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as of 7/24/05 all the fixed stuff is there. there were a coupla gallons of water on t-giving ledge when we split on 7/24.
look out for the silver fish on pitch 18. also, i think supertopo misplaced the bolts at the top of this pitch. as you face the rock, they are to the right of the tree, not the left. quite obvious unless you are climbing in the dark like we were.
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ibclimbn
Trad climber
Riverside, CA
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Last weekend, my partner and I got to p.4, then decided it was too hot ( bailed and drank beer ). I noticed that there were no fixed heads on p.3. Just one blown out piece at the start ( which you don't need anyway ). As for the fixed gear on p.11, I don't know. I would take a couple of small heads just in case.
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salad
Big Wall climber
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can anyone report on the nature of the fixed gear on LF?
tia
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crotch
climber
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Fixed gear was fine in June. Things change though.
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Spanky
Social climber
boulder co
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I was planning on climbing lurking fear next week and was curious if anyone knows the condition of the fixed heads on pitches 3 and 11. thanks for the beta.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Most of the belays are hanging. I wouldn't bring a ledge at all...The hauling is too harsh. But I would bring a sturdy wooden belay seat.
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