labrat
Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
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"Watch as you go through the summit roof on this climb. There is a large loose rock standing on its edge just as you start through about 20'-30'off the belay."
x2!!
Wonder why I don't seem to remember it from before?
Link below does not work because of the deletion of Ron Anderson's posts ;-(
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labrat
Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
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http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2160815&tn=0
Link to posts on some history of this route.
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--
Mountain climber
berkeley, ca
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This is a much more sustained and interesting climb than Knapsack Crack. Way better. We encountered only 1 trivial bush and no dirt--just good clean crack climbing. The crux, in my opinion, is not the initial face, but occurs about half-way up the first pitch. There is a 15-foot finger crack with only friction for feet, and pro is not too easy to set. Good news is that there is a nice little ledge right after.
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photonez
Trad climber
Southern New Hampshire
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Climbed this over the weekend. I agree with everything Simmeron said. The roof at the end is super fun. Overall, better than Knapsack.
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Simmeron
Trad climber
Reno, NV
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Like the other posters say, you're first lead should be Knapsack since this climb is more sustained and commiting. And like Highminded says, there is a reason you see more people on Knapsack than this climb: beginning climbers can't crack climb very well. This is the same reason you hardly see anyone climb the 5.7 finger variation to "Deception," even though that is the best part of the climb. With that said, "Manic" is a lot more enjoyable than Knapsack (ho hum) and I found it to have less loose rock (not sure where all the dirt is, unless its in the mini-gully below the belay).
To get the full value out of this climb you should traverse over to the 1st pitch anchors on "Wave Rider" and finish with the 2nd pitch of the latter. Or lead it all on passive pro.
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pookielew
Trad climber
Sunnyvale, CA
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We wanted to do Manic Depressive but got lost. Starting at the double trees down and right of the ACTUAL start, we ended up basically putting up a new route that joins Manic Depressive up higher. This new route we named "Schizoid 5.7R (5.6R?)" and is 360' long. Here's the beta.
P1 (110') 5.5: start at double trees (shown in Carville, but not SuperTopo). Dance around left of large loose slab at start. End on ledge of actual start to Manic Depressive, but about 20' to the right. Keep going and ignore actual start.
P2 (110') 5.6R/5.7R: head straight up into the wild unknown aiming straight up to the real Manic Depressive skyline. You'll soon encounter smooth granite. Trust your feet and get to the knobby handhold dike (oh what a relief). Traverse left, then up to the belay. Not sure about the rating. Was wearing approach shoes by mistake.
P3 (140') 5.4: Rejoin Manic Depressive by stepping down and then left to the crack.
Based on our experience, try this in approach shoes if you want a dash of sporty.
Ryan Maas & Karl Lew 6/25/08
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dylan
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Did this route Sunday. I would agree with the posters below that Knapsack is a better first lead but I found this to be a pretty enjoyable climb.
The pro isn't as abundant as on Knapsack but there is enough that you definitely aren't running it out. The first pitch has a few solid hands/pro options (in the pods at the beginning) interspersed with friction and finger tips in the crack. There may be some dirt removal required from the crack.
Route finding is pretty easy as you are following the crack. Looking up at pitch 2 with what looks like a big hard roof (weakness in the middle) makes pitch 2 fun as well.
Enjoyable for the grade - liked it more than Knapsack.
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lasong
Trad climber
Rocklin, California
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Checked out this route and agree this isn't a good first lead. Knapsack is a better choice.
Crack does have dirt and a few bushes here and there. Was able to work around all of the bushes except for one where I had to step where the bush was. Crack isn't completed full to the top with dirt and you are stepping on rock most of the way.
I have to agree with Highminded and Ttoshi in regards to parts of the climb having friction moves with small hand holds. I just put in placements before these sections and climbed through. From what I remember these sections aren't very long. Somewhere between 5' to 10'.
This could be uncomfortable for a first lead since the tendency is to have placements close together. You can either stop on the friction spots and put in a placement or look ahead for your next placement and climb through. Really depends if you are climbing well within your limits but are working on your first lead. Nothing difficult about the moves just not big holds for hands and feet in some places.
This climb is more difficult than Knapsack. Lots of good feet placement most of the way on Knapsack where you can fumble around with your rack if you are on first lead trying to pick the right size cam or nut.
This route is more sustained (5.4 per the guidebook) for the entire climb than Knapsack. The 1st pitch was straight forward and nothing really sticks out in regards to a particular part. Myself and the people following liked the 2nd pitch which looked challenging when looking up from the first belay but was really easy with lots of holds. 2nd pitch is short.
You will know you are at the 1st belay when you reach a slightly sloping ledge and a left facing flake with a crack running through it. The bolts for another route will be to your right and down about 10' while looking up the climb. I used 4 small/medium nuts to set an anchor.
Overall this climb would be a good step up from Knapsack if you are looking for sustained 5.4. I did spend about 5 minutes digging out the crack in one spot to place a cam and did have to step on one bush. Other than that I really didn't have any other issues with dirt in the crack or the bushes (you do have to step over a few bushes though).
This route is not popular so when Hogsback is already covered with climbers it is usually open if you don't want to wait in a line. Also have a new lead in the group so we will probably climb this one again since we all liked the 5.5 start, the 2nd pitch and this route is easy to protect.
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highminded
Mountain climber
Forks, Washington
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I'd have to agree with Ttoshi -- this is NOT A GOOD FIRST LEAD. You'll have a better experience on Knapsack (even if there's a line, it's worth the wait). There is a reason that Knapsack is so popular and Manic Depressive is not.
The climb starts on the first, smallish, crescent-shaped flake about 15 ft. to the right of the tree as you're facing the route (not the larger book that's still 15 ft. further right). The first 10 meters to the bush in the large crack are not bad -- nice cam placements under the flake (use long runners to avoid rope drag). However, from there to the top of the first pitch, the climb diminishes in quality. The crack is full of dirt, leaves and bushes -- a complete rack for this route should include a leaf blower and gardening shears ;-) and there are several tenuous, frictiony gear placements that don't feel very comfortable when you're leading for the first time (or even the second or third time for that matter). In several places, you run out of good hands and feet, which, if you're setting pro for the first time, is pretty scary.
Moving right to the bolt anchors at the top of the 1st pitch is airy and unprotected. It is also off-route. Better to belay from the slightly sloping ledge directly above the crack, about 10 ft. above and to the left of the bolts (as you face the climb). The flake and crack above the ledge take small-med nuts and small cams to hold a downward pull and there's a nice, fat crack at the bottom of the ledge that will take a large hex to hold an upward pull.
Compared to the the 1st pitch, the 2nd pitch is a song (which is good because by that time you're pretty sick of the crappy-ass climb). P2 is short and well protected. I didn't notice any loose rock at the top -- maybe that came down over winter. There's a totally bomber handhold, on the right of the crack, at the very top of the climb, to help you make the last move over that protruding "nose". On top, walk back a bit to set up your anchors, but set up looooooooong slings (or use extra rope -- there will be plenty) and belay from just above the top of the pitch to avoid dragging the rope through the notch at the top of the climb.
If you don't use 2-way radios, then have a good rope-tug communication system established with your partner. Road-noise from HWY 50, the rushing waters of the river below and wind whipping around the end of Hogsback make verbal communication difficult. (Actually, this goes for all the climbs on Hogsback).
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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I guess the friction part is optional, depending on how you start. If you start at the bottom of the diagonal crack I don't remember any friction moves. I think the start in the Supertopo is a little to the right of that. Anyway if you start with the crack it's secure the entire way. I'd expect it to be an easy first lead.
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ttoshi
Trad climber
Oakland, CA
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I wouldn't recommend this climb as a first lead. The crack is a bit dirty and flared at places, and while the climbing is easy, it requires friction moves with not so great handholds at times. There's nothing really memorable about the route to me.
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Chris McNamara
SuperTopo staff member
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The American Safe Climbing Assn. may have replaced anchor bolts on this climb. To find out visit the ASCA Replacement Page
The ASCA is a non-profit organization dedicated to replacing unsafe anchors. To learn about helping the ASCA click here
DONATE NOW
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Charlie
Novice climber
Mill Valley, CA
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Watch as you go through the summit roof on this climb. There is a large loose rock standing on its edge just as you start through about 20'-30'off the belay. It's easily avoided.
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Charlie
Novice climber
Mill Valley, CA
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Straight in crack on low angle rock. 4th class hike to the start, just to the right of a big tree. You'll see some flakes off further to the right. The climb begins between the flakes and the tree. Climb is straight forward, good protection, small cams and nuts. Second pitch is short, goes up and through some small roofs.
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The route as seen from Highway 50.Photo: Chris McNamara
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*What is "Route Beta"?
It's climber slang for information or tips on a route as in, "what's
the beta on that route?" As a service to fellow climbers we ask SuperTopo
guidebook users to post tips and updates to this website if they have relevant
information to share after a climb.
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