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rmsusa
Trad climber
Boulder
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Apr 25, 2007 - 06:16pm PT
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It's about time!
With herbal products these days you're luck if the package contains the listed ingredients. Many of these products have side-effects and interactions with legitimate prescription drugs that could be serious.
The FDA already regulates food additives to ensure that they're safe. It regulates drugs to ensure that they're safe and also effective. These are important functions of the agencies.
Given the amount of quackery behind "natural products". It's about time that their manufacturers are required to substantiate their claims. Certain natural substances (Datura, Amenita Mushrooms, Hemlock, etc.) can kill you and shouldn't be sold to the general public. Remember ephedra?
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NateC
Mountain climber
Las Vegas, NV
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Apr 25, 2007 - 06:20pm PT
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The FDA is a tool used by lobbying groups of pharmaceutical companies to keep the population dependent on prescription drugs and the power to heal ourselves or make our own healing choices our of our reach.
Remember ephedra, hah! Was that a joke. It's still available, widely used and isn't killing anyone. That's strange, I thought it was the worst thing since crack cocaine when the FDA banned it.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Apr 25, 2007 - 06:21pm PT
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Hear hear! Too late for me, but it might save some of you other guys. I've struggled with a weight problem all my life. Naturally (no pun intended) I soon turned to unregulated diet aids served up over the counter. How was I to know that the bottle of magic pills I depended on to keep the weight off were loaded with estrogen! I may look great, but man o man my tits sure hurt sometimes.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Apr 25, 2007 - 06:25pm PT
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Nate's kinda right. Once the government agency gets their hands on something...look out! However, it may also help officially bring to light some of the great things that homopathic (sp?) medicine can do. The only thing holding back naturally great cures is the pharmaceutical companies can't make MONEY off them. If they can get in on some of the cash, they may not be as reluctant to endorse naturally occurring cures.
Maybe it's homEopathic? I dunno....
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Apr 25, 2007 - 06:28pm PT
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And let's not forget about federally mandated immunizations laced with Thimerisol (mercury) so the "pharmers" get mega-profits and our babies get mercury-poisoning (autism, actually--but the government rejects any link).
Thanks Dan Qualye, your family , its corporation, and all of you other legitimate "drug dealers" who use the power of government to get rich at the expense of the populace's long-term health--hope those short-term profits were worth it.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Knob Central
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Apr 25, 2007 - 06:51pm PT
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Hey Russ, come on up to the Meadows this summer. You could make a ton more money letting Waugh and Bolton play with your boobs than you ever can by sewing sh!t.
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wilcox510
climber
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Apr 25, 2007 - 07:26pm PT
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So pharmaceutical companies are the devil and the FDA wants to regulate supplements so that money can be made off them? Let's re-evaluate. The main reason supplements arent regulated now is because of money. Senator Orin Hatch of Utah has financial ties to the supplement industry, which is big in Utah. He was a big reason (if not the reason) a bill to regulate supplements got shot down years ago (can you say conflict of interest). The supplement companies would lose tons of money if they were regulated. Oh, and there has never been one bit of reasonable scientific evidence that proves thimerol causes autism. That is one of those myths that just won't die. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a huge fan of drug companies or government regulation, just wanted to point these things out.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Apr 25, 2007 - 07:39pm PT
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From now on, no more Fish, it's D-Cup all the way!
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NateC
Mountain climber
Las Vegas, NV
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Apr 25, 2007 - 07:42pm PT
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Do some research into who was funding the push for the ephedrine ban. The biggest efforts came from pharm companies with interests in weight loss drugs. Ephedrine was more effective and far cheaper than prescription weight loss pills.
If you can't beat 'em ban 'em.
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Matt
Trad climber
places you shouldn't talk about in polite company
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Apr 25, 2007 - 07:43pm PT
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seamstress?
boobies?
i'm sure you are still a fine climbing partner-
at least on 3 out of every 4 weekends...
(i.e except for one weekend a month)
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goatboy smellz
climber
colorado
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Apr 25, 2007 - 08:39pm PT
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fish & tits for dinner?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 25, 2007 - 09:24pm PT
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The problem is, nobody is going to do the billions in research needed to prove something like Saw Palmetto reduces prostate enlargement if you can't patent it and make bank, so if this goes through, we lose rather than gain reasonable, natural alternatives.
Now if the government wants to spend billions funding studies and research to see what natural herbs and vitamins could replace expensive prescription drugs, I might be fine with it, but they will never do that so let the supplement industry be.
Peace
Karl
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TradIsGood
Happy and Healthy climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Apr 25, 2007 - 10:32pm PT
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I am sorry Karl. But by your argument, the drug companies should not be regulated either. Patents are easy enough to get. Got one myself (not on drugs). Big deal! Having a patent and making money are two different things.
The FDA requires pharmaceutical companies to spend billions proving that the drugs not only do what they claim, but also that any potential harm is documented as well. But you would allow every snake oil salesman to sell "natural" products with unsupported and perhaps unsupportable claims.
If we can take these responses to be representative of the public, education clearly is not the answer, which leaves either regulation, or laissez faire. Are you ok with the government not regulating commerce? Or do you just want to pick personally what is regulated and what isn't? I guess from the tone of some of the responses, only "big" businesses should be regulated. :-) Frankly, I see no reason why pharma could not jump all over the natural sheet and peddle it as hard as the next guy. Maybe they aren't because it would harm their credibility with the real pharmaceuticals?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 25, 2007 - 11:18pm PT
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Nonsense TIG, you can't patent Vitamin C nor Saw Palmetto. Who's going to do research to FDA standards to compare Saw Palmetto with the pharmaceutical drug for enlarged prostate?
Supplement claims are already regulated to some extent. Is the status quo that we have now so bad? I don't think so.
The same people pushing this are the ones who resisted regulating tobacco as a drug, a sure sign of being a tool. Why do conservatives who claim they want to keep the feds from regulating us come down on the side of this legistlation? It's about cash for drug companies and nothing more.
And a pox on the testicles of those who blocked legislation that would have enabled the government to negotiate drug prices for medicare with the drug companies, like they do in Canada. Bush promised us access to Canadian drugs during his election. Liar!
as long as I'm ranting, let include the fact that the drug companies love to focus on lifestyle drugs, "safe" copycat drugs to artificially extend their patents, and drugs that have to be taken forever. Later, they claim their new drug (say Vioxx) is better than the cheap, generic over-the-counter med. Many times it just ain't true but they don't have to disclose that. A lot of those arthritis meds are a scam.
Our medical system is broken with the leeches taking hypocritical oaths instead hypocratic ones.
Peace
Karl
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Apr 26, 2007 - 12:29am PT
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wilcox510,
Read a book called "Mercury, the Winged Messenger" by Courtney L. Zietzke. I met him (friend of my wife from Seattle) and played a good round of white ball with him. READ THE BOOK. I cannot discuss this matter further until you have sufficient FACTS on which to debate (although there are none, you can still look). FIRSTHAND situation with his oldest son (second son got no vacs, he's fine) will make you CRY, and hate those effers who MAKE us put that shite into our children. E-mail me if you want to get into it, because it is too emotional for a public forum. I hope you are not a parent, for you kid's future stake. READ THE BOOK.
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Thom
Trad climber
South Orange County, CA
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Apr 26, 2007 - 01:01am PT
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My wife works for large corporate pharma, in house, as a senior paralegal. She works closely with the in house attorneys as well as outside counsel. The stories I hear...
It is about money and protecting patents to retain the profits. But, oddly enough, big pharma isn't entirely to blame: Due to FDA mandates the company my wife works for has spent over $30 million in the last three years on initial research for ONE GENERIC cancer drug, a lot of which involved legal fees paid to ensure the timely filing and compliance of paper work in accordance with Fed regulations. They estimate it will take another $30-$40 million to actually develop the drug to the point of clinical trials, which will cost even more. After all that they still have to get FDA approval. If they don't get it, $100 million just when down the toilet.
Once they do get a drug to the marketplace, they have to recoup all the expenses involved, plus profits, during the patent lifetime. Once the patents are gone, the generics start flooding in from places like India and profits are gone. This results in astronomical prices for these drugs while under patent protection. In this way, our government is partly responsible for the out-of-control costs in the healthcare industry due to what some in the drug industry itself view as over-regulation. The company my wife works for is always looking for loopholes to avoid the costs associated with regulation they feel is unnecessary.
As for the other, as Karl pointed out, Saw Palmetto has been clinically tested and shown to be affective at controlling BPH with no side affects. You can't get it in parts of Europe without a prescription.
They're also not just going after these substances. There's been a push for years to restrict public access to vitamin and mineral supplements regarding dosages within what is known as a "therapeutic" range. Clinical studies have shown that vitamin C has many therapeutic benefits at higher doses than the RDA while being harmless at even massive doses. One day, we may need a prescription to obtain anything more than 50 mg of vitamin C.
And what if your HMO won't comply?
T.
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nature
climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Apr 26, 2007 - 01:49am PT
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that he is a D-Cup was not disclosed in his SF bio. I feel so robbed!
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wilcox510
climber
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Apr 26, 2007 - 11:28am PT
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Mojefe - "I hope you are not a parent, for you kid's future stake" nice personal attack. Oh, and I think you meant for my childs "sake." I have not read that book, maybe I will, but one persons firsthand experience doesnt mean anything. It is horrible their child has autism, I feel for them. But the fact that one child got vaccinations and got autism, while the other did not get vaccinations and did not get autism doesnt means nothing. Thats completely annecdotal. Maybe that book provides something more meaningful, but that one example is worthless as proof. Do you have any idea how many children would be sick and would die yearly from various diseases if it werent for vaccinations? Debating is one thing, suggesting that I'm a poor parent for giving children immunizations that are proven to reduce the likelihood of disease despite unproven theories that they cause autism, is pretty poor form.
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salad
climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2007 - 12:35pm PT
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did i read the docket correctly? am i to understand that yoga and tai chi could be regulated?
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