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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 26, 2010 - 10:16am PT
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You know I keep holding your hands and leading you to the water to drink but you all continually deny and refuse.
Yes, you'll need a stereoscope to see them. I gave you sources for that also (they are inexpensive; gee, you'll later be able to use them to view all kinds of other stuff on the web in 3D related to NASA, astrogeology , Mars, Moon, terrestrial geology, etc. etc.)
Once again, these are all 3D stereograms. To fake the 3D stereograms, they would have to make an elaborate perfect 3D model that perfectly matches the Lunar surface and craft. I do not see that happening. And then to do this all for an elaborate nameless hoax and no reward for doing so?
We aren't just talking a few still B&W images, we are also talking about lots of video footage that perfectly lines up with the Lunar surface from the fly over of "Apollo 20" with known official images. All of it can be compared to the official publicly released NASA Apollo 15 and Apollo 17 images. It all matches.
Faking all of that is not happening. Again from all the video, 3D stereograms can be made, just like I have done. So once again we are talking about an enormous elaborate perfect 3D model that would have had to be built. Not happening.
Some things are faked like the massive 20' or so black clay model of the craft. That is clear and easy to see.
These images are not even close to that. They are not the same. These are real in my opinion.
Skept,
I've seen that doctored image before and even have it in my collection. Try making a stereogram from 9630: that has been smoothed, shadows removed, and added false texture with its official match (9625). Not happening. In fact a key massive rock has been removed in the image you have posted. Do you know where it is? You have been had.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Sep 26, 2010 - 10:34am PT
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Listen carefully to the famous and historical public speech that Neil Armstrong gave at the White House where he talked about "removing truth's protective layers." That speech is loaded with deep (read between the lines) meaning. Since when and why does truth need to be protected? And why do we have to remove the layers protecting it? What are they hiding?
seems to be the crux of the matter for me too, klim. they're protecting their own strangehold on the power structure. you don't protect truth with lies, you only protect secrets.
we get a little glimpse of it now and then. winston churchill once referred to the dark secrets of war. pearl harbor was probably a classic.
you might try prying open the secrets of the vatican basement, klim. you might come away with a lot less faith in your bible.
looking over some of your links, i've found former moonwalking astronaut edgar mitchell to be interestingly credible. he has a phd from mit and seems to be speaking quite plainly about extraterrestials. i'd like all the loudmouth as#@&%es on this thread--and i won't mention any names--to look mitchell over and tell me why i shouldn't take him halfway seriously.
btw, just a geological note. either that photo is faked or it's a genuine something. rocks don't stick out from the ground anywhere else on the moon. there is no wind or water erosion. the only erosion which takes place is through mucho bombardment by meteors. if it's a real photo, it's a real anomaly.
i don't believe debunking sites for a minute. read debunking the debunking by david ray griffin. check that bozo thread here on ST and see what a hipshot outfit snopes is.
i'm still not convinced that humans have walked on the moon, since there is some evidence that the public was fed fake stuff during the events. some suggest the public side was orchestrated so we wouldn't be exposed to disasters. there is a real feeling up there that "the public can't take it". others say it would be impossible to survive the radiation of the van allen belt. please research this and report back.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 26, 2010 - 11:54am PT
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LEB,
When I have time later today I'll type in "retiredafb's" -- CDR William Rutledge's response to that same question in an interview with Luca Scantamburlo. Eye opening.
Here it is, I found it:
http://www.angelismarriti.it/ANGELISMARRITI-ENG/REPORTS_ARTICLES/Apollo20-InterviewWithWilliamRutledge.htm
25-26) L.S. Aren’t you afraid of the U.S. Government’s reaction and why did you talk about the date of September 2007, when NASA and USAF (according to you) “will be forced to tell the whole story before September 2007” What does it mean and Who is your “deep throat”? In another recent your communication to me, you talked about the “2012” year. You said: “In 2012, the weakers will die, and governments preserve the only bit of their heritage […] everybody has to be prepared for 2012”. Is there any connection with the “Planet X” return (the ancient Nibiru, adored by the Sumerians in Mesopotamia) ? What did you know about it?
25 W.R. I'm the deep throat. What can NASA USAF do now? Blocking or suing me would be an acknowledgement. They can speak of hoax or fiction. I'm just afraid they could open a site or another account with my name or putting almost perfect false videos with voluntary errors to disinform. Fortunately, bureaucracy and time works for me. It's a race.
That's why the idea of putting the Leonov files is a good idea, no controversy anymore, there are no Leonov footage, no videos of this period of Leonov in a LM or on a USA USAF base. It is unthinkable related to the official version .
26 W.R. I am a passionate of the Sumerian period, of the Genesis as related by Sumerian. They clearly explain how gods created man. But I have no indications on Sumerian cosmogony, send me some links.
There is a question you didn't ask for and I'm always surprised that nobody does. This could be your question 27 - why is it necessary to hide UFOs, why disinformation, why putting all this under the carpet? It's question of economics. All currencies on Earth are based on the value of gold. Not many citizens know that but gold is an extraterrestrial metal coming from the death of a star. When a star is dying, its mass is growing, atoms are compressed and when the star explodes, it spreads large amounts of gold in young solar systems. That's why gold is not a mineral to treat but a perfect, carbon free metal. This mean that it is the most common substance in the universe, no more value than a piece of plastic.
That's enough to put down all world currencies. Imagine also that an EBE says: "coffee has a good taste, rare in this galaxy", the only perspective of trading coffee through universe would displace the economic power to countries of the South in one day. You see, not a problem of panic, but simply a problem of economy.
 The end of the interview -
In Supernovas, the entire Periodic Table is brought about by fusion, and only then. Earth has a fixed amount of resources. We have to go out to the asteroid belt to get more and expand our knowledge, our survival, and branch out and spread our wings. We need those resources. There are world's to explore.
"The asteroids that are potentially the most hazardous because they can closely approach the Earth are also the objects that could be most easily exploited for raw materials. These raw materials could be used in developing the space structures and in generating the rocket fuel that will be required to explore and colonize our solar system in the twenty-first century. By closely investigating the compositions of asteroids, intelligent choices can be made as to which ones offer the richest supplies of raw materials. It has been estimated that the mineral wealth resident in the belt of asteroids between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter would be equivalent to about 100 billion dollars for every person on Earth today."
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/?why_asteroids
Some do not want the power structure to change. They like the way things are. The haves and have nots. It comes down to greed and the selfish desire to maintain the caste system of feudalism -- the Serfs serve the King.
A day of reconing is coming. I look forward to that day. Jesus please return quickly.
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monolith
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Sep 26, 2010 - 01:37pm PT
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A day of reconing is coming. I look forward to that day. Jesus please return quickly....and smite the debunkers.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 26, 2010 - 01:50pm PT
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You assume I make all this up.
No, there are many who know far more about this than me who say the same thing.
PhD Michael Heiser, PhD Chuck Missler, Phd Stephen Yulish, David Flynn and the list goes on and on. Yes, we are all men (and also women) of faith. Some see further than others.
These things, this knowledge, this technology are hid for the same reasons that the Church hid the Book of Enoch for so long, and still doesn't really recognize it. Yet, the Good Book quotes from the Book of Enoch. Knowledge is power. Those who have the knowledge and keep it from others use it to stay in power and subjugate the rest of the World.
"Nothing is New under the Sun," as the Good Book says.
I do not believe in Aliens. I know they exist and I know they are a real phenomenon. But I also know their intent and why they are here. I share that knowledge happily with whomever really wants to know. I believe and trust in GOD the Father, GOD the Son -- Jesus Christ, and GOD the Holy Ghost (The Trinity).
I do not talk about these truths in a School Public setting. It is not the place or time. We have separation of Church and State. As a teacher I gladly abide by that. But I do have my personal life. I have freedom to have faith, and the Constitution and Bill of Rights protects my freedoms as they do yours. Do you agree or disagree? Here on ST we should be open and honest, and not be afraid to be ourselves.
From PhD Michael Heiser's book "Fascade":
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 26, 2010 - 02:04pm PT
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Probably not. They wouldn't like how I would handle them. I would ask for the keys to saucers and motherships, the keys to the clean renewable energy and zero-point energy technology that they have to benefit all mankind, and then I would rebuke them in Jesus's name.
How, dare they come here and violate the Laws of the Universe (The Two Great Commandments) and abduct and rape and do many other unspeakable atrocities to human kind. They are not our creators even though they want to be worshipped as such. I would tell them to "Get lost."
We have played this game before. Like I said, "Nothing is New under the Sun."
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Sep 26, 2010 - 02:11pm PT
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^^^^^^
violate the Laws of the Universe (The Two Great Commandments) and abduct and rap Wow. Did not know that rap(ping) was breaking one of the 2 great commandments! I guess we're all pretty much fooked then, eh?
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bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian, Certified Kook
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Sep 26, 2010 - 02:27pm PT
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I'm not advocating any conspiracy at the moment, but I did video some wild stuff in Roberts Creek, BC 2 years ago. Pulsing spheres of light above a logging road about 5 or 600 feet away, below treetop level.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Sep 26, 2010 - 03:44pm PT
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You can not fake the geochemistry of Moon Rocks ...
you can fake anything you want, klimmer, if you control major media and have a few phds. your phds versus their phds--most people just throw up their hands and say "what do i know?" then you wind up going through life in a world that doesn't make much sense. sound familiar?
there's a lot of faith in god out there, klimmer, just like you have, and the world has gotten shittier and shittier under euro-christian domination. i'm afraid i wouldn't trust your bible as far as i could throw it.
still haven't had anyone come forward to tell me what's wrong with edgar mitchell, but maybe i was mistaken about loudmouthed as#@&%es.
(ahem) any nice, polite, rational people on here care to tell me why edgar mitchell should not be believed?
A day of reconing is coming. I look forward to that day. Jesus please return quickly.
when the 1000-year millenium came around, people were expecting the end of the world then, many reportedly committing suicide. it gets so wearying waiting for the relief, klimmer. that's the disease of christianity--basically the deus ex machina position, not thinking we can and should make our own world, that "god" has to do it for us.
on a more positive note, i'm inclined to believe that bmcad is not giving us a hoax picture. it's the sort of "ufo flap" event which john keel describes so convincingly. it leaves us with credibly witnessed phenomena, unexplainable. paranormal is the best approach i can think of, but i'd like to get this mitchell character vetted out.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Sep 26, 2010 - 05:08pm PT
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I have to think that Edgar Mitchell's thoughts about space aliens are just as credible as his claims that he was cured of kidney cancer in 2004 (from afar) by remote healer Adam Dreamhealer. I personally put him right up there on par with "UFO Joe" and Wilber Allen the UFO photographer who gets his directions via mind-probe beams from hyperspace-dwelling alien civilizations.
I'm not making any of this up! Just spend a little time reading the links Klimmer posts.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 26, 2010 - 07:30pm PT
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"You can not fake the geochemistry of Moon Rocks ... "
you can fake anything you want, klimmer, if you control major media and have a few phds. your phds versus their phds--most people just throw up their hands and say "what do i know?" then you wind up going through life in a world that doesn't make much sense. sound familiar?
Ah, actually NO you can not. (I think even PhD Mike Bolte might back me up here.) It is empirical science. You can not fake Moon rocks. This is a big area of interest and study for me. I collect Meteorites. The geochemistry of rocks or fallen meteorites from the following terrestrial planetary bodies (Angrites (possibly from Mercury), Earth, Lunar, Mars (the SNCs), Asteroid 4 Vesta (the HEDs)) can be used to distinguish between them. A clear test to distinguish between them all is the Papike test: Fe/Mn within Olivine vs. %Anorthite within Plagioclase Feldspar. They all differ significantly. There are many tests to distinguish parent bodies of meteorites or rocks from these planetary bodies. These tests are known and the ratios of certain minerals from these tests are known, and each planetary body is unique in results for all of these tests. Not to mention the analysis of isotopes of oxygen within the minerals also will distinguish what parent body they came from. This is all measurable by any competent science team. It is empirical. It is reproducible. It can not be faked.
There are many unique ET minerals that are found within moon rocks but not within rocks from Earth. Also we can determine absolute age by radiometric dating, and many Moon rocks are older than anything we can currently find on Earth today due to the fact Earth rocks have gone through the rock cycle more than once resetting their atomic clocks. And unique surface exposures and measures of certain isotopes as a result from cosmic ray radiation is very different, I could go on and on and on.
You can not fake this. If you could then you would have many people trying, since Apollo Moon rocks are valued at $50,000.0/g, based on the cost of what it took to get there. They have special agents (men in black, lol) who just monitor NASA Moon rocks and go to recover them if some go missing.
Mike,
You would have to read the entire book to know the whole story and how it came about, since April of 2007. The personal email interviews etc. Yes, there are silly things said. There is disinfo. Even the one to do the interviews admits this, and does so throughout the book. But not all of it. Something is going on. Truth wrapped in lies. It is a big enigma. If you think that the story is peer reviewed without errors, or grammatical errors, you'd be greatly dissapointed.
Apollo 20: The Disclosure
By Luca Scantamburlo
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Sep 26, 2010 - 11:13pm PT
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MORON ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MORON ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i have worked at DOD and DOE top secret installations in their emergency ops center.
if you think some dudes saw ufo's and wont report it you are delusional.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 27, 2010 - 01:51am PT
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So what?
So what??????
This is what . . . (from another post)
There are places to go and things to learn and discover. I to would rather our $$$$ be spent on doing positive things rather than feeding the monster of the Military-Industrial complex. We should go back to the Moon, we should go to Mars, we need to go to the Asteroid belt. There is plenty of energy, just got to get off of fossil fuels. Clean renewable energy abounds. Oh, that's right, we can't put a meter on the Sun. Darn it all. There goes the power hold of the rich and elite on the rest of the world. We can't have that, can we?
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/?why_asteroids
"The asteroids that are potentially the most hazardous because they can closely approach the Earth are also the objects that could be most easily exploited for raw materials. These raw materials could be used in developing the space structures and in generating the rocket fuel that will be required to explore and colonize our solar system in the twenty-first century. By closely investigating the compositions of asteroids, intelligent choices can be made as to which ones offer the richest supplies of raw materials. It has been estimated that the mineral wealth resident in the belt of asteroids between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter would be equivalent to about 100 billion dollars for every person on Earth today."
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 27, 2010 - 02:49am PT
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"All currencies on Earth are based on the value of gold."
Not any more. We've been off the gold standard for a while now.
"Not many citizens know that but gold is an extraterrestrial metal coming from the death of a star."
So is lead. So what?
"That's why gold is not a mineral to treat but a perfect, carbon free metal. This mean that it is the most common substance in the universe"
No, this doesn't mean that gold is the most common substance in the universe. Nor does it mean that it's abundant on Earth. Mercury is a carbon-free metal, too. So are lead and copper. Because they are chemical elements.
If being a carbon-free metal makes gold the most abundant common substance in the universe, then it must also make mercury, lead, and copper the most abundant common substances in the universe. Obviously, this can't be true, therefore that fact alone cannot cause a metal to be the most common substance in the universe.
"no more value than a piece of plastic."
That's partially true, but not because gold is an element. It's true because the value of gold has always been what humans have placed on it. It's as meaningless as time, and always has been. Humans placed value on gold because it's hard to find on Earth.
It's still a meaningless value, but that fact doesn't make it any easier to find on Earth.
Why is it so necessary to nit pick to death a brief email to someone, in a low-key email interview? Especially, one in which are many typos and errors in english etc. If the story is true, and I don't think it is all true, but some of it is, then we are talking about an 80 year old man who lived an incredible life and adventure. USAF pilots are not known to have it all together science wise, and they will readily admit this. Read "Riding Rockets: the outrageous tales of a space shuttle astronaut" by Mike Mullane (USAF). USAF pilots come from the "planet AD" (arrested development) in the words of Mike Mullane. Great read and hilarious.
In "retiredafb's" defense:
Seems in this economy countries are desperately buying up Gold and trying to get back to that stability. China certainly is. The rich certainly are. Have you seen all the Gold ads? Gold is still very valuable in the World economy.
It is true. Many people do not know that the heavier elements above Fe come from Stars that have gone supernova. Some people think that Gold and other elements are somehow formed in normal Earth geological processes. I teach physics and Earth science. These are common misconceptions. All the elements that accreted to form Earth are ET from a supernova in our distant past before the birth of our star The Sun. There is only a fixed amount here on Earth. We are truly made of star dust, as they say.
Gold is found mostly as a native element, and mostly found uncombined chemically with other elements and minerals. The properties of Gold are well known, and have been throughout modern man's history. The uses for Gold go way beyond ornate and money. Gold is very valuable for industry in so many ways: Sensitive fine Electronics, coatings, important alloys, fine lubricants, and on and on. The demand for Gold is dramatically increasing as a result. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold
Yes, there are boatloads of Gold in the asteroid belt along with many other valuable elements. He didn't say it was the most common element on Earth. Big reason we need to mine Mars and the asteroid belt. I don't think he meant that Gold is the most common element. I think he was trying to say and mean that off Earth, nearby in the asteroid belt, there is an enormous amount available and as a result it would change the economy of the Earth. One of the primary reasons Gold is so valuable is for all of its uses, and the fact that it is rare here on Earth. The law of supply and demand. But if you could get boat loads of it from the asteroid belt, then that would significantly change things wouldn't it? It would.
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/?why_asteroids
Gold doesn't have a meaningless value. It is very saught after for all of its industrial uses. No other element has Gold's unique properties, hence the fact it is an element. Nothing else like it. But if you had access to lots of it, then its value would significantly decrease. Supply and demand.
What if coffee is unique in all the Universe? Wow, then it would be highly prized!
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