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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Yes , it's all about arithmetic...Bushes economic , foreign , and domestic policies bankrupted the country...This is what's known as subtraction...Most of us learned this in kindergarten...
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crankster
Trad climber
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A daily dose of rj always makes me laugh.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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As my mom used to say "no good deed goes unpunished", lower unemployment, lower deficit, higher stock market, health insurance to millions of Americans who couldn't afford it under Obama.
In some strange parallel universe the complete opposite under Bush was better to John E and other.
Really strange.
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crankster
Trad climber
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When you ask the righties to put forward ANY Republican politician's ideas that they endorse...ANY proposal or policy....all you get is silence.
What is your plan, different from the President's, to defeat ISIS? silence
What is your plan, different from the President's, regarding immigration? silence
What is your plan, different from the President's, to speed job growth? silence
On and on...the answer is the same. silence
The tea party controls the Republican party. They rule by hating government; what's their idea on how to govern? silence
Come January, we get to see them in the spotlight. My guess it's going to be ugly.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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I am no expert in social or foreign policy, but I have always been interested in how to improve the human condition. I like to throw my opinions into a forum to see how well they may hold up to civil and constructive criticism.
Although I sometimes resort to them, counter points that resort to ad hominems, straw men or hyperbole are intellectually weak and not constructive.
The title of this thread does not imply intellectual discourse, it implies a zealous belief.
when speaking with someone with a different opinion, the goal is not to annihilate one’s intellectual opponent. The goal is get him to understand an alternative perspective. In order for this to be effective, it requires each person to examine their own prior assumptions and listen to their opponent rather than rip them apart. http://blog.independent.org/2014/12/03/love-liberty-learn-to-argue/#more-27222
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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Larry wrote: I am no expert in social or foreign policy, but I have always been interested in how to improve the human condition.
Maybe we should look at what other civilized first world countries do. It's obvious the current financial, education and healthcare systems are not working.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Lotta truth in that Larry. Maybe a thread entitled Share Your Ideas On Improving America.
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Norton
Social climber
quitcherbellyachin
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^^
explain the consequences of US Debt
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Well, it doesn't matter until it does, but that will only happen when we can't pay the piper, or the Chinese as the case may be.
They won't take yer house from you as long as you make the
payments, either. But that doesn't excuse doing something fundamentally wrong. DMT is
right, it takes two to tango. The Demos love buying those $800 Air Force toilet seats just as
much as their friends across the aisle, just as long as a Demo voter gets to make it.
So wazzup with Obama? A nerdy White Tower elitist for defense secretary? Really?
I will give him the benefit of the doubt for thinking outside the box here, until the dude goes
to Afghanistan and shares some MRE's with the troops.
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HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
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explain the consequences of US Debt
We have to pay it off and it means that in the future there will be much less money for us to use to help people....
Obama's blowing up of the debt is extremely irresponsible.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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We could pay down the debt without tax increases IF we slashed the Pentagoons.
Luckily, the Millenials haven't gotten off their 'devices' long enough to
find out that they're gonna retire unto poverty so the debt holders are good
for yonks.
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crankster
Trad climber
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From the non-partisan CBO...
Options for Reducing the Deficit: 2015 to 2024
November 20, 2014
[url="http:// https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/49638-BudgetOptions.pdf"]http://https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/49638-BudgetOptions.pdf[/url]
The Congress faces an array of policy choices as it confronts the prospect of large annual budget deficits and further increases in the already-large government debt that are projected to occur in coming decades under current law. To help inform lawmakers about the budgetary implications of changing federal policies, CBO periodically issues volumes of policy options and their effects on the federal budget, of which this is the most recent. The agency also issues separate reports that present policy options in particular areas.
This document provides estimates of the budgetary savings from 79 options that would decrease federal spending or increase federal revenues over the next decade. The estimates are updates of many of those presented in Options for Reducing the Deficit: 2014 to 2023 (November 2013). The options cover a broad range of areas in the federal budget, including defense, energy, Social Security, health care programs, other benefit programs, and provisions of the tax code. The budgetary effects identified for most of the options span the 10 years from 2015 to 2024 (the period covered by CBO’s baseline budget projections in 2014), although many of the options would have longer-term effects as well. This document presents options in the following categories:
Mandatory spending other than that for health-related programs,
Discretionary spending other than that for health-related programs,
Revenues other than those related to health, and
Health-related programs and revenue provisions.
For each option, this document includes a brief description of the policy involved. For additional information, including discussion of advantages and disadvantages, see the version of that option in the November 2013 volume.
This document also includes an appendix that lists options that CBO has analyzed previously but for which no budgetary estimates are presented. Those options are drawn from two sources. Some were analyzed in the November 2013 volume but would take considerable time to reanalyze; in order to make this document available prior to the beginning of the 114th Congress in January 2015, those estimates were not updated. Others, taken from various reports issued by CBO, were listed in Appendix A of last year’s report.
Certain options from those two sources are omitted from this document’s appendix for one of two reasons. Some have been superseded by subsequent legislation or administrative action. For others, CBO’s previous estimates of budgetary savings are probably no longer useful because of changes that have been made by legislation or administrative action, economic developments, or changes in other aspects of CBO’s analysis.
The options included in this document originally came from a variety of sources. Some are based on proposed legislation or on the budget proposals of various Administrations; others come from Congressional offices or from entities in the federal government or the private sector. As a collection, the options are intended to reflect a range of possibilities, not a ranking of priorities or an exhaustive list. Inclusion or exclusion of any particular option does not imply approval or disapproval by CBO, and the report makes no recommendations. |
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Norton
Social climber
quitcherbellyachin
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explain the consequences of US Debt
We have to pay it off and it means that in the future there will be much less money for us to use to help people....
no, we certainly do not "have" to pay off the national debt
since our inception we have had debt, and have steadily added to it
just the same as almost all nation/governments on this earth
Obama's blowing up of the debt is extremely irresponsible.
doubly wrong
1) only congress, and especially the House, has the Constitutional authority to "spend" money
2) since 2011 the Republicans have had an overwhelming majority and control the House
everything spent since they took over the House had to be voted on passed by them
3) fact: Republican Administrations are responsible for more of the additions to the National Debt than Democratic ones
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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"Well, it doesn't matter until it does, but that will only happen when we can't pay the piper, or the Chinese as the case may be. "
I don't think we owe China as much as some people believe.
The US has had debt from day one.
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John M
climber
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You do realize that the national debt doubled under Bush. And it tripled under Reagan.
Our current debt level is bad. It needs to be paid down as it is now getting dangerous, but some debt isn't bad. Just like you take on debt to buy a house. Some things need a certain amount of debt. We get into all kinds of trouble when we don't allow any debt. It just that we need to learn to pay off debt during good times.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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TGT..i thought i saw you 2 fridays ago pedaling on PCH in Seal Beach in oxygen Debt..?
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Bob D'A wrote:
Maybe we should look at what other civilized first world countries do. It's obvious the current financial, education and healthcare systems are not working.
I think that is something everyone on this forum can agree on. I do have some problems with using European countries as a model of success. Culture, demographics and values matter a great deal in the success or failure of social policies. Besides, some European countries are having some difficulty in sustaining their entitlements. You can find those stories with some effort.
So how do we determine what will work and what will not in this country?
To be up front, I am not a democrat or republican. I am a libertarian, so right off the bat I've alienated many. Social policy is not science, as no counter factuals can be disproven. There are natural business cycles outside of decisions made in Washington. Federal Reserve policy affects the economy more than political decisions pandering to interest groups. Partisanship leads to finger pointing and score keeping that obscures real cause and affect.
My belief is that the massive accumilation of power in Washington DC is corrupting in itself. We are not living in a true capitalist society. I believe it is now crony capitalism, and both parties are experts. Small business and the middle class are paying for the utopian dreams, vote buying schemes and fund raising efforts of democrat and republican politicians.
My belief is states rights, the boogy man of the pre-civil rights era. This is a term that is loaded, but I believe we are a different country than we were in 1965. I have seen the change with my own eyes. I am proud that this country elected an African-American as president.
Ending prohibition on marijuana is a states rights issue. That is not an issue I particularly care about, but is only one example.
The war on drugs is 40 years of money down the pisser and non-violent offenders clogging up prisons and empowering the prison guard union.
The war on poverty is 40 years of money down the pisser and creating perverse incentives within our citizenry.
The department of education is money down the pissser as test scores are lower than pre department of education.
The department of energy is money down the pisser with crony deals for companies that fail, but CEO's who get rich.
These policies all certainly work well as "workfare" and crony payoffs, but not much else.
The 50 laborotories of democracy will tell us what works and what doesn't. Local government is what is responsive to the citizens it affects. It will take a while, but the proof is in the pudding, not the partisan talking points.
Now I feel guilty sitting around on a Saturday typing political BS. Out now for the rest of the day.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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some European countries are having some difficulty in sustaining their entitlements.
Some? Why do you think they can't pull out of their recession?
I just spent a month in Italy. The place is falling apart - all their money
goes towards entitlement programs, guvmint salaries and pensions, and, well,
that's about it. They're a heartbeat away from becoming the next Greece.
What is really amazing is that despite all the supposed 'largesse' their
standard of living is way lower than what the statistics indicate because
of the marked north/south divide. Passing through Napoli is a very sobering
experience- the poverty is pervasive and deep. We're headed that way unless
both Dems and Repubs can agree that we're not gonna be the world's policeman
any more and that we don't need to spend untold billions on stooped sh!t
like the F-35 and preparing to go to Mars.
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