Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2018 - 10:22am PT
|
Who believes in Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Ares, Athena, Apollo?
Who believes in Ra, Osiris, Isis, Horus?
Who believes in Jupiter, Neptune, Mars, Apollo, Vulcan, Mercury?
Who believes in Odin, Frigg, Thor, Balder, Loki?
I do, as manifestations of psychological states of being that mediate the condition of human consciousness in the face of its tragic nature.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2018 - 04:47pm PT
|
Pinker makes a lot more sense than his reviewer, who penned:
"Each area of improvement has specific causes that Pinker carefully identifies, but he attributes our overall progress to “Enlightenment humanism,” a secular worldview that values science and reason over superstition and dogma."
As though it is axiomatic that anything besides science and reasoning is "superstition and dogma." Scientism and it's cult are superstitious (ie, an illusory, groundless, unfounded fear or disregard) of any phenomenon save measurements and data, to the point of being dogmatic about said measurements/data = Type A Physicalists.
A more nuanced view would find much at play lost to Pinker's drift. Of course such a take is not a vote for Virgin Births and Saviors walking on water, but some people can only think in black and white.
If you look closely at the world the instinctual and primitive drives of aggression, power and domination, sexuality, territoriality etc. are still driving human behavior. Socialization and brute economics have helped tame these somewhat, and ascribing this shift to reason alone is overstating the case IMO.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2018 - 07:52pm PT
|
Jim Brennan, medical science can't eradicate anything you fool.
No disease has ever been stopped without God himself giving the intelligence to Medical science, to begin with.
The gross materialist is useless without God himself.
The gross materialist is sooo st00pid he thinks he can become atheist without God.
Under the spell of the illusionary energies of God the fool gross material scientists think they are the actual doers.
Only with help of God can the stoopid gross materialist actually become a st00pid atheist.
Thus without God nothing at all can exist, and nothing at can be done to begin with .....
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2018 - 09:18pm PT
|
I never said anything about believing.
That's you because ultimately you're clueless.
Believing is ultimately useless.
As you believe anything that fits into what your own mind is telling you.
All the materials to cure disease comes from God.
The gross materialist cannot manufacture those materials as they are already there .....
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
|
|
|
Feb 21, 2018 - 10:34pm PT
|
...scientism is driven by the same all-or-nothing thinking we find in religious fundamentalism...
~ John Long
Yup. And, it's bad science, too.
|
|
sempervirens
climber
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2018 - 07:48am PT
|
Not so much a crime, rather ignorance masquerading as final truth. Psychologically speaking, scientism is driven by the same all-or-nothing thinking we find in religious fundamentalism, whereby measurements have replaced the "Good Book" and adherents are loath to accept or even suspect any limitation on their mode of inquiry, the mere thought being a kind of heresy owing to "data" and predictions
And there we can see the glaring flaws of both scientism and religion. Science though, does not suffer from this all-or-nothin thinking.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2018 - 08:02am PT
|
God does not belong to any religion.
The gross materialists are always in delusion and clueless ....
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2018 - 08:19am PT
|
Carl Sagan...
Scientistican!!
Evangelist of Scientism!!
lol
Show me an example of scientism and I'll show you an example of phlogiston.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2018 - 08:24am PT
|
^^^^^ You are the high priest of scientism yourself so quit yer complaining .....
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2018 - 08:38am PT
|
And there we can see the glaring flaws of both scientism and religion. Science though, does not suffer from this all-or-nothin thinking.
----------
Science itself does not. Science is quantification, and getting the data right has vastly improved both our station in life and our understanding of both who and what we are in physical terms. The distortion comes from what we do with this data, and how we consider it. If we only look at objective numbers, we miss the heart dimension Jim mentioned, which drove people to find solutions to our sufferings. We also adopt a "mind blind" pov in which consciousness has gone missing and all that remains (in this view) is the objective stuff off which we pull our measurements. We are by this belief, so may zombies who "only think we are..." (fill in the blank).
In an effort to keep that stuff fundamental, we say that the heart dimension just mentioned was "created" or sourced by the objective stuff, and in that way we can keep said stuff on top of the altar. We can "keep it real."
Obviously a lot of what I've just described has little to do with equations, and a whole lot to do with our inborn, classical take on reality. The notion that there might be more is not a bid to promote superstition and ignorance.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2018 - 08:47am PT
|
getting the data right has vastly improved both our station in life and our understanding of both who and what we are in physical terms.
There you go, now simply internalize what you've posted.
And then, every once in awhile, show some gratitude.
|
|
sempervirens
climber
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2018 - 11:55am PT
|
The distortion comes from what we do with this data, and how we consider it. If we only look at objective numbers, we miss the heart dimension Jim mentioned, which drove people to find solutions to our sufferings. We also adopt a "mind blind" pov in which consciousness has gone missing and all that remains (in this view) is the objective stuff off which we pull our measurements.
I agree. I would not support looking only at numbers and more than I'd support ignoring numbers. The heart is easier to fool than is a measuring tape, no?
|
|
paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2018 - 12:08pm PT
|
The heart is easier to fool than is a measuring tape, no?
Perhaps, but ironically the heart is where wisdom resides. The measuring tape can only inform the heart.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2018 - 12:19pm PT
|
The heart is never fooled as it is the seat of consciousness itself which NOT material.
It is non other than the mind that is always fooled .......
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2018 - 12:30pm PT
|
Counterpoint review of Enlightenment Now...
The Enlightenment of Steven Pinker, Peter Harrison
http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2018/02/20/4806696.htm
To which Claire Lehmann, founder of Quillette, responds...
Ashamed that this bitter, resentful rant against Steven Pinker is published by Australia's national broadcaster.
Apologia for religion + distrust of scientists = why the humanities are a backwater... -Claire Lehmann
|
|
sempervirens
climber
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2018 - 12:41pm PT
|
Also ironic is that crazy nonsense lives in the heart along with wisdom. For example, those beliefs that are not compatible with reality, like irrational love for and faith in Charles Manson, the flat earth, all the pseudo-sciences, the fake gurus and televangelists. Isn't it also in the heart where those things live?
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Feb 22, 2018 - 01:06pm PT
|
You are totally clueless about what is in the heart ^^^^^^
You are the one with beliefs.
Reality is not beliefs .......
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!