The Massive Ark on the Moon (very OT, but of high interest)

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healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Sep 24, 2010 - 04:59am PT
I don't know, that sounds like pretty much an absolutely anything goes set of beliefs. Hard to imagine dimensions that could interact with ours on our scale and us not being able to detect them. Hard to imagine physical objects that aren't subject to physical laws. And hard to imagine a nuke would have significant effects in any spectrum much beyond our magnetosphere other than maybe a brief burst of faint gamma radiation.
Tony Bird

climber
Northridge, CA
Sep 24, 2010 - 08:41am PT
klimmer had me for awhile until he started thumping his bible.

healyje, i read that some phys-wiz postulated up to 11 dimensions for a grand unified theory. everybody was going for the GUT about 10 years ago, now you don't hear it so much. things change that fast. but physics gets pretty wild. it isn't a newtonian universe any more.

granite, posting the same poop-ass picture more than once on the same thread is the unforgivable sin. i'm sure you'll find that in klimmer's bible if you interpret it properly.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2010 - 09:47am PT
TB,

GUT is still in the game. They have been working on unifying the Gravity Force, the Strong/Weak Atomic Force, and EM Force since the days of Einstein. That was his last problem at the end of his life. We still haven't figured it out. Goes back to the Big Bang. At the point of singularity all 4 must have been combined, we reason and theorize.

It looks like the Universe is multi-verse. Parallel Universes and multi-dimensions? Possibly.

I have a new book to read that I haven't jumped into yet, "In Search of the Mutiverse: parallel worlds, hidden dimensions, and the ultimate quest for the frontiers of reality" by John Gribbin. Looks good. So many books so little time.

String theory. Worm Holes etc. etc. It is a wonderfully bizarre Universe and difficult to get a grasp on. Physics is going in incredible directions.



Sorry that you find offence when I find the World around me lines up and makes sense according to the word of GOD. He told us many things already. All we have to do is listen. We can still look and figure it out. He wants us to do that. There is a commandment to look, watch, and be ready. We must do all of that. But we also just have to read and listen to what he has already said. Many answers are given. You just have to look. When we understand it all one day, there won't be an contradictions. Science and the Word of GOD do not contradict one another, we are learning that the more we understand both.

Personally, I find it all very fascinating.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Sep 24, 2010 - 10:35am PT
I don't know, that sounds like pretty much an absolutely anything goes set of beliefs. Hard to imagine dimensions that could interact with ours on our scale and us not being able to detect them. Hard to imagine physical objects that aren't subject to physical laws. And hard to imagine a nuke would have significant effects in any spectrum much beyond our magnetosphere other than maybe a brief burst of faint gamma radiation.

100 or 200 measly years ago, similar statements about unseen energy could have been made by an intelligent man only to be wildly disproven by later science. You could be killed by radiation that noone could detect. Your assumptions above are based on our awareness of this dimension and we have not the tools to detect beyond a certain threshold. Doesn't mean that doesn't exist.

Basically boils down to whether there are spiritual dimension or not, and whether they can affect this one or be affected by this one, and whether the laws are different.

Peace

Karl
Ben Harland

Social climber
Baltimore, MD
Sep 24, 2010 - 10:41am PT
This thread just reminded me of a lecture Richard Feynman gave in the 70's called "Cargo Cult Science".
http://www.lhup.edu/~DSIMANEK/cargocul.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_science
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Sep 24, 2010 - 11:14am PT
you can bet lunar missions would never have stopped if there was even the slightest chance there was advanced technology on the moon

Ding-ding-ding-ding!!! We have a winner! End of thread!
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2010 - 11:30am PT
What is a little more ridicule from the ST crowd?


Alien Moon Base
by UFO Joe, InfoNet

Is there an "Alien Base" on the Moon. More and more people
are coming forward with stories of an Alien presence on the
Moon. Rumors are that their "Moon Base" is on the dark side
of the moon, the side we never see from Earth.

Did you ever wonder why the Moon landings stopped and why
have we not tried to build a Moon Base. It seems a better and
easier idea than a floating space station?

According to Neil Armstrong the Aliens have a base on the
Moon and wanted us to get off and stay off the Moon! Milton
Cooper a Naval Intelligence Officer tell us that the
Intelligence community calls the Alien Base "Luna":

LUNA: The Alien base on the far side of the Moon. It
was seen and filmed by the Apollo Astronauts. A base, a mining
operation using very large machines, and the very large alien
craft described in sighting reports as MOTHER SHIPS exist there.
 Milton Cooper

snip >

NASA: Whats there?
Mission Control calling Apollo 11...

Apollo11: These "Babies" are huge, Sir! Enormous!
OH MY GOD! You wouldn't believe it!
I'm telling you there are other spacecraft out there,
Lined up on the far side of the crater edge!
They're on the Moon watching us!

snip >

Professor: How do you mean "warned off"?

Armstrong: I can't go into details, except to say that their ships were far superior to ours both in size and technology - Boy, were they big!...and menacing! No, there is no question of a space station.


MORE: http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/moonbase.htm




I think the story rings true. Even Neil Armstrong in a famous speech talks about "removing truths protective layers."

Someone should post that speech again given at the White House.


Too many NASA astronauts have come forward and talked about the constant UFO surveillance that all missions seem to experience. Those of you who ignore their testimony, do so at peril of your own ignorance.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Sep 24, 2010 - 11:43am PT
why
have we not tried to build a Moon Base. It seems a better and
easier idea than a floating space station?

Umm, because it takes only 1 day to reach instead of 4, it's easier to position, it doesn't require escape velocities to debark from, communication lag time is less & stronger signal strength, because the weak gravity negates the zero-gravity experiment designs researchers are exploring, etc.

monolith

climber
Berkeley, CA
Sep 24, 2010 - 11:50am PT
Ding-ding-ding-ding!!! We have a winner! End of thread!

Not so quick. The loonballs will say the missions did continue(secretly, ie Apollo 18,19,20,21,...), till the technology was recovered and now we only need the illusion that rockets are our highest space travel technology.
WBraun

climber
Sep 24, 2010 - 11:52am PT
Only stupid people waste their time trying for the moon by the ascending process.

They can't even get it right on earth.

Instead they waste peoples hard earned money and time on going nowhere.

Stupid people ......
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Sep 24, 2010 - 11:56am PT
^^^^
I'm sure you're right, but I say if the gov't can't even hide its super-secret stuff on this planet (Iran-Contra, CIA assassinations, stealth bomber, etc), then there's no way it could hide something as hugely involved as a secret moon mission.
monolith

climber
Berkeley, CA
Sep 24, 2010 - 11:58am PT
Yep, but KlimmerLogic knows no limits.
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
Sep 24, 2010 - 11:59am PT
Karl, karl, you should not have written this. Years of credibility as a thoughtful, knowledgable person are at risk. Extra dimensions of spacetime have nothing to do with the parts of the EM spectrum that your eyes are not sensitive to.

Just making an analogy to illustrate that there are unseen realities that were denied until we got the technology to understand them. We're babies and keep thinking we know the whole story.

Peace

Karl
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2010 - 12:27pm PT
C'mon guys do we have to keep going over this? Do you guys have selective memories?

Apollo 18 did happen Google it.

Apollo-Soyuz (Apollo 18):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo-Soyuz_Test_Project

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canceled_Apollo_missions

We are only talking about Apollo 19, and then Apollo 20. Those missions were planned, then cancelled. We had all the hardware, rockets and then some. Do you think they just trashed and recycled these multi million dollar crafts for scrap metal? No they used them. There were even more left over, and these went into musuems. Apollo 18 was practice with the USSR, for going to the moon in Apollo 19 (didn't go, had to be aborted soon after lift-off according to the story), but Apollo 20 made it.

Got to read the book by Luca, Apollo 20 Disclosure. Am I the only one who has read this story and followed it since 2007?
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2010 - 12:34pm PT
Klimmer's "these babies are huge" Neil Armstrong story is a great example of what is "wrong" with his thinking. Neil Armstrong never said any of that. Someone made it up, it got repeated a zillion times and now poor Klimmer is convinced it is the truth. Like all fabrications, there are multiple versions of the story. In some, Neil said this in an interview at the White House, in others is was a NASA symposium, in others it was in an interview with a "prominent senior astrophysicists", in others it was captured by ham radio operators evesdropping on Apollo 11. I guess Klimmer can respond by saying "Of course, Neil Armstrong said this a bunch of times!"




Mike B.,

Wrong. Names are named. These people are not "no bodies" but former NASA employees saying this:

"former NASA employee Otto Binder"
"Maurice Chatelain, former chief of NASA Communications Systems"

and in addition these:

"Dr. Vladimir Azhazha, a physicist and Professor of
Mathematics at Moscow University"
"another Soviet scientist, Dr. Aleksandr Kazantsev"








http://www.sacred-texts.com/ufo/moonbase.htm

SUBJECT: Moon Sightings FILE: UFO50


I'm not to sure of this as i dont have the book to
hand (Above Top Secret), but wasn't there a report that the crew
of the eagle (Armstrong et al), when they left the module,
turned round and found themselves looking at alien craft at the
top of a crater?
(The following file was posted on InfoNet London
Ontario)

Alien Moon Base
by UFO Joe, InfoNet


Is there an "Alien Base" on the Moon. More and more people
are coming forward with stories of an Alien presence on the
Moon. Rumors are that their "Moon Base" is on the dark side
of the moon, the side we never see from Earth.

Did you ever wonder why the Moon landings stopped and why
have we not tried to build a Moon Base. It seems a better and
easier idea than a floating space station?

According to Neil Armstrong the Aliens have a base on the
Moon and wanted us to get off and stay off the Moon! Milton
Cooper a Naval Intellegence Officer tell us that the
Intellegence community calls the Alien Base "Luna":

LUNA: The Alien base on the far side of the Moon. It
was seen and filmed by the Apollo Astronauts. A base, a mining
operation using very large machines, and the very large alien
craft described in sighting reports as MOTHER SHIPS exist there.
 Milton Cooper

* * *

Did Apollo 11 Encounter UFOs on the Moon?
from the Book "Above Top Secret" by Timothy Good

According to hitherto unconfirmed reports, both Neil
Armstrong and Edwin "Buzz" Aldrin saw UFOs shortly after that
historic landing on the Moon in Apollo 11 on 21 July 1969. I
remember hearing one of the astronauts refer to a "light" in
or on a crater during the television transmission, followed by
a request from mission control for further information. Nothing
more was heard.

According to a former NASA employee Otto Binder, unnamed
radio hams with their own VHF receiving facilities that bypassed
NASA's broadcasting outlets picked up the following exchange:

NASA: Whats there?
Mission Control calling Apollo 11...

Apollo11: These "Babies" are huge, Sir! Enormous!
OH MY GOD! You wouldn't believe it!
I'm telling you there are other spacecraft out there,
Lined up on the far side of the crater edge!
They're on the Moon watching us!

In 1979 Maurice Chatelain, former chief of NASA
Communications Systems confirmed that Armstrong had indeed
reported seeing two UFOs on the rim of a crater. "The encounter
was common knowledge in NASA," he revealed, "but nobody has
talked about it until now."

Soviet scientists were allegedly the first to confirm
the incident. "According to our information, the encounter
was reported immediately after the landing of the module," said
Dr. Vladimir Azhazha, a physicist and Professor of
Mathematics at Moscow University. "Neil Armstrong relayed the
message to Mission Control that two large, mysterious objects
were watching them after having landed near the moon module.
But his message was never heard by the public - because NASA
censored it. "According to another Soviet scientist, Dr.
Aleksandr Kazantsev, Buss Aldrin took color movie film of the
UFOs from inside the module, and continued filming them after
he and Armstrong went outside. Dr. Azhazha claims that the
UFOs departed minutes after the astronauts came out on to the
lunar surface.

Maurice Chatelain also confirmed that Apollo 11's
radio transmissions were interrupted on several occasions in
order to hide the news from the public. Before dismissing
Chatelain's sensational claims, it is worth noting his
impressive background in the aerospace industry and space
program. His first job after moving from France was as an
electronics engineer with Convair, specializing in
telecommunications, telemetry and radar. In 1959 he was in
charge of an electromagnetic research group, developing new
radar and telecommunications systems for Ryan. One of his
eleven patents was an automatic radar landing system that
ignited retro rockets at a given altitude, used in the
Ranger and Surveyor flights to the Moon. Later, at North
American Aviation, Chatelain was offered the job of designing
and building the Apollo communications and data-processing
systems.

Chatelain claims that "all Apollo and Gemini flights
were followed, both at a distance and sometimes also quite
closely, by space vehicles of extraterrestrial origin - flying
saucers, or UFOs, if you want to call them by that name.
Every time it occurred, the astronauts informed Mission
Control, who then ordered absolute silence." He goes on to
say:

"I think that Walter Schirra aboard Mercury 8 was the
first of the astronauts to use the code name 'Santa Claus'
to indicate the presence of flying saucers next to space
capsules. However, his announcements were barely noticed by the
general public. It was a little different when James Lovell
on board the Apollo 8 command module came out from behind the
moon and said for everybody to hear: 'PLEASE BE INFORMED THAT
THERE IS A SANTA CLAUS.' Even though this happened on
Christmas Day 1968, many people sensed a hidden meaning in those
words."

Rumors persist. NASA may well be a civilian agency, but
many of its programs are funded by the defence budget and most
of the astronauts are subject to military security regulations.
Apart from the fact that the National Security Agency screens
all films and probably radio communications as well. We have the
statements by Otto Binder, Dr. Garry Henderson and Maurice
Chatelain that the astronauts were under strict orders not to
discuss their sightings. And Gordon Cooper has testified to a
United Nations committee that one of the astronauts actually
witnessed a UFO on the ground. If there is no secrecy, why has
this sighting not been made public?

A certain professor, who wished to remain anonymous, was
engaged in a discussion with Neil Armstrong during a NASA
symposium.
Professor: What REALLY happened out there with Apollo 11?

Armstrong: It was incredible, of course we had always
known there was a possibility, the fact is,
we were warned off!(by the Aliens). There was
never any question then of a space station or a
moon city.

Professor: How do you mean "warned off"?

Armstrong: I can't go into details, except to say that
their ships were far superior to ours both in
size and technology - Boy, were they
big!...and menacing!
No, there is no question of a space station.
Professor: But NASA had other missions after Apollo 11?

Armstrong: Naturally - NASA was committed at that time,
and couldn't risk panic on Earth. But it really
was a quick scoop and back again.

Armstrong confirmed that the story was true but refused to
go into further detail, beyond admitting that the CIA was behind
the cover-up.
---
monolith

climber
Berkeley, CA
Sep 24, 2010 - 12:35pm PT
I was referring to the last official moon mission and the claimed followup secret missions, Klimmer.

Apollo-Soyuz was not officially called Apollo 18, it was named Apollo–Soyuz Test Project (ASTP).

UFO Joe as a source, hilarious!.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2010 - 12:53pm PT
Mono,

Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canceled_Apollo_missions
For the ASTP mission, sometimes unofficially referred to as Apollo 18, see Apollo-Soyuz Test Project.

Many articles on ASTP call it "Apollo 18" unofficially. Read up.

The point is it had a purpose to get the USSR and the US together before going back to the Moon, according to "CDR William Rutledge (Apollo 20)"
monolith

climber
Berkeley, CA
Sep 24, 2010 - 12:58pm PT
Why would the US and USSR need to be tied together by the Soyuz program, Klimmer?

Do you think the secret missions involved US-USSR linkups in orbit before slinking off to the moon?

Just a rhetorical question Klimmer, I know I will get nonsense in return. Better for you to spend your school day improving the lesson plans.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2010 - 01:04pm PT
Mono,


Apparently you haven't been following the story of Apollo 19 and Apollo 20.

Apollo 19: Crew of 3. CDR John Young ("moonwalker1966delta") and another USSR Cosmonaut. I'll look up the other names later.

Apollo 20: Crew of 3. CDR William Rutledge ("retiredafb") and the famous USSR Cosmonaut Alexei Leonov, and one more woman US astronaut (the first US Astronaut into space if the story is indeed true), her name escape me at the moment.


ASTP was used to get Alexei up to speed for going to the Moon with Apollo 20, according to CDR William Rutledge.

Follow the story. Read the book. Read it as fiction if you prefer. I just see too many verfied evidences lining up to say otherwise.




MB,

Email these guys and check it out if they are still living. Check it out. Would be interesting to see what they say. Perhaps there are original sources where they do indeed say these things?

Too many public statements by NASA astronauts confirm that UFOs/ET are real and they are constantly being monitored by them every time we go to space. Are you going to denie this?

We can put up a historical record in chronological order of well known NASA astronauts making public statements, admitting that NASA cover-up the truth and lies.

We have been down this road before. Do we have to do it again? And again? And again?

Like I said, you guys have selective memories. I'm convinced that some climbers on ST have no memory what-so-ever.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Sep 24, 2010 - 01:11pm PT
Well, I would very much like to believe that alien craft were seen on the moon.

And I would like to believe that numerous pilots through the years have had UFO encounters.

If true, this universe would be far more interesting!

Like everyone else I suppose, I would like to see some solid proof.

What makes me more doubtful than just believing because it would very cool, is the fact that no civilian findings have shown up, no space craft, no bodies, no physical evidence.

So, it is one thing to say that the NSA or military does not want to panic the world, and so keeps hidden all the actual proof they found.

But civilian populations are far more diverse and huge in number than military, and still we have no real proofs.

So, to me then only, until proven, it is all but speculation, interesting, like voodoo.


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