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Urmas
Social climber
Sierra Eastside
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Apr 25, 2010 - 08:45pm PT
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Boy, it's hard to follow Fat Dad's defensive tantrum with a merely sensible suggestion, but here goes...
Is there a difference between permanently fixed ropes - as on the 1/2 Dome approach slabs - and a VF? Perhaps the difference is comparable to that between draws left on a route - no examples come to mind, but I have seen 12 and harder routes equipped this way - and chain draws, such as those under the Eldorado Roof in the Owens Gorge.
Sure, the fixed lines are not "permanent"; when people stop renewing them, they will rot away. But will this ever be allowed to happen? Can anyone imagine going back to a time when those approaching 1/2 Dome will take the trouble to free climb the 5th class sections, rather than relying on the ropes?
When I was in Squamish, B.C. I was impressed by the infrastructure established for the benefit of climbers. Here there are plenty of regulations and restrictions, but little that is positive, or makes climbers feel welcome and respected.
I'm happy to use the ropes, but wouldn't mind something permanent either. I am proud of our wilderness ethic. This didn't exist in Europe until it was too late - too late to stop the Alps and other places from being settled and "improved" everywhere you look. If installing stuff like this starts us down a long slippery slope toward urbanisation, then I'm against it. Still, it might be cool in the right places.
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chumbawumba
climber
SF, CA
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Apr 25, 2010 - 11:07pm PT
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They have a couple on the "sugarloaf" in Rio/Brazil. I was sitting several pitches up at a belay when I saw some guy batmaning up a steal cable a couple hundred feet off the deck under the gondola. in flip flops. THe brazilian approach shoe.
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hamie
Social climber
Thekoots
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Apr 26, 2010 - 12:09am PT
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hi bruce
like your sense of humour. this is not a CMH caper. they helicopter in and out on the other side, as they have to get back to the lodge in time for a shower and cocktails, before the steak and wine dinner. "i say, jolly good fun. wish we could have landed on the summit, what, what!".
however it is definitely [imho] commercially motivated, as other guiding groups will be able to hustle their clients up and down faster, without having to do any of that stupid climbing stuff. how boring and dated is that? OMG.
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ExtraBlue
Ice climber
the ford VT
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Apr 26, 2010 - 08:34am PT
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Gruss di Knox!
As an American I got to say Via Ferratas are pretty freaking cool. I climbed the Drachensteig outside of Salzburg last year and it was freakin sweet. Say what you want but a slip at the wrong time, would have resulted in more serious injury than most falls on sport routes. Also, you can climb quickly and, if you are willing, alone. What would have taken a full day pitched out we did in a few hours. Not every Via Ferrata features full on ladders, some are just the cables bolted every 5-10m or have the occasional piece of rebar jutting out of the rock.
Kletternsteigs (Via Ferrata is the Italian) let you leave rope, rack, and ego at home. Some folks wont be into that, and some will. But if anyone wants do have a great time in the mountains, grab a bike, a harness, a Y clip system and go tour the Tirol and the Dolomites.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Apr 26, 2010 - 11:34am PT
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I am proud of our wilderness ethic. This didn't exist in Europe until it was too late - too late to stop the Alps and other places from being settled and "improved" everywhere you look. If installing stuff like this starts us down a long slippery slope toward urbanisation, then I'm against it. Still, it might be cool in the right places.
I guess my response was a bit of a rant, but one in response to Knox' gratuitous one. Sorry, but I'm pretty fed up with the whole 'we Europeans are so righteous and you Americans are such tools' hypocrisy. Enough of that though.
My primary point was the one you made, that is that a decision was made in Europe a while back to favor access over wilderness, which I don't support. Having said that, you make a good point about fixed ropes and how they're really not that different than via ferrata. However, I'm kind of against fixed ropes on things like the Slabs or East Ledges. Sure they're handy but they really don't need to be there.
I've done some via ferrata in Italy and enjoyed them. However, I don't really want to see them over here since they create additional impact and crowding. The cables on Half Dome and chains on Angel's Landing make for fun, easy summits, but just imagine how different those summits would be if they weren't there.
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