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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jan 27, 2011 - 01:59pm PT
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http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/the-kindest-cut/8338/
...Just under 20 percent of Swaziland’s 1 million people are HIV positive, an epidemic fueled by poverty, a lack of medical resources, and a male-dominated and promiscuous culture in which polygamy is still common. Look more closely, and the numbers get uglier. Nearly half of women ages 25 to 29 and men 35 to 39 are infected. Since 1998, according to one report, the average life expectancy has dropped from about 61 years to 47. “With the highest prevalence of HIV in a population ever recorded, we have got to do something to intervene,” says Dr. Vusi Magagula, chair of the government’s male-circumcision task force.
Swaziland has been preparing its men for mass circumcision since 2006. The previous year, a randomized controlled trial in South Africa (later confirmed by studies in Uganda and Kenya) found that circumcised men are as much as 60 percent less likely to contract HIV through heterosexual sex. Scientists do not yet know exactly why, but the study was so convincing that it was stopped after 18 months, because preventing the uncircumcised control group from getting the procedure would have been unethical.
Now a nationwide campaign is under way to circumcise 160,000 HIV-negative males by the end of this year. That’s the number organizers believe will walk willingly into the operating theater. The government’s task force plans to recruit additional doctors from around the world, train them, and send them throughout the country to perform the surgeries. At the campaign’s peak, the organizers expect to have 35 doctors and 245 nurses. “This will prove to Africa that together we can fight HIV,” says Ayanda Nqeketo, of the ministry of health. “It will be a historic moment.” ...
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wydra
Social climber
Utah
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Jan 27, 2011 - 02:25pm PT
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Can girls get breast implants after they are born? Seems it would be nice. I mean if it helps them get a date in high school, it should be good right?
Funny logic coming from some old farts on here.
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murcy
climber
sanfrancisco
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Jan 27, 2011 - 02:59pm PT
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It could cause health issues later, so it only makes sense to remove it surgically. While you're at it, have them remove his tonsils, appendix, and one each of the redundant organs including a kidney and a testicle, which these days are much more likely to develop cancer than to be needed functionally.
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Dr. X
Big Wall climber
X- Town
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Jan 27, 2011 - 03:17pm PT
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I did not see one woman's response on whether or they would be more inclined or less inclined towrds performing oral an a cut vs uncut man.
That's the real question all the guys want to know.
Not if its healthier or not, not if it reduces the chance of mental illness, not if the child would do it later or not, not isf daddy has had it done or not.
No, the real question is:
Is it more attractive to be circumsied or not?
Caveat: Only hot chicks need respond to this question...
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nutjob
Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jan 27, 2011 - 03:42pm PT
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Russ, you are the hero of this thread with work safe humor!
DTM resuscitation
Some ladies like a smooth face, some ladies like beards. I expect some ladies will be found on both sides of the question at hand (or mouth as the case may be). I think odds will favor the chop.
I'm chopped, and we thought carefully about whether or not to chop our son. His mom is from India where chopping is not common, so we had no specific bias one way or the other. Well, she had a bias based on taste. She said chopped is better. Sure guys can theoretically clean the anteater properly, but in practice they probably don't. At least not good enough for a taste test.
Our final conclusion was to give our son the chop, sort of as a wedding present for his future wife. That's a gift for our son as well.
Edit: Khanom, it's true us chopped fellas don't know what we're missing. We lost some nerve cells packed with pleasure centers. But it's also true you don't know how good it feels for us! It's tough to compare notes here... does apple pie taste better to me or to you? Does looking down on soaring birds from a sweet belay spot look better to me or to you? Does catching one's breath and yelling "off belay" after a hard pitch feel better to me or to you? There, this thread is officially on-topic now.
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from a crimp and crying for my mama.
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Jan 27, 2011 - 05:12pm PT
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Sexually, I don't really care if it is circumcised or isn't... I am more concerned about the person's character and their ability or relate to me.
Now if it was my son... Circumcision means easier to keep clean, less likely to have infections including HIV etc. Plus, since my husband is Jewish... Well, we are securely on that road for better or worse.
AFS
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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Jan 27, 2011 - 05:23pm PT
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The more important question here is.....this thread started in June of '08. Three years ago. So what ever happened with his kid's penis? Cut or not to cut?
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Anastasia
climber
hanging from a crimp and crying for my mama.
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Jan 27, 2011 - 08:18pm PT
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It's not protection, it just statistically shows that it helps.
Here are three medical publications upon the subject. And yes... I do regularly read medical journals since they conveniently come with the husband.
Randomized, Controlled Intervention Trial of Male Circumcision for Reduction of HIV Infection Risk: The ANRS 1265 Trial
Bertran Auvert1,2,3,4*, Dirk Taljaard5, Emmanuel Lagarde2,4, Joëlle Sobngwi-Tambekou2, Rémi Sitta2,4, Adrian __Puren6
Benefits of newborn circumcision: is Europe ignoring medical evidence?
from bmj.comEJ Schoen - Archives of disease in childhood, 1997 - adc.bmj.com ... Medical Officer 112:171–173. ... N Engl J Med 335:343–345. [FREE Full text]. ↵: Williamson ML,; Williamson PS. (1988 Fall/Winter) Women's preferences for penile circumcision in
sexual partners. Journal of Sex Education and Therapy 14(2):9–12. ...
How does male circumcision protect against HIV infection?
Robert Szabo, medical resident, Roger V Short, professor
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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And 8 years later this is still being fought over:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-47169732
A female MP in Tanzania has called for checks to determine whether or not her male colleagues have undergone circumcision - a procedure known to reduce the risk of HIV transmission.
Jackline Ngonyani said any MPs found not to have been circumcised should be required to undergo the procedure.
Her suggestion divided opinion among her colleagues.
HIV is seen as a major threat to public health in Tanzania. Around 70% of the male population is circumcised.
Around 5% of Tanzania's adult population is believed to have been infected by HIV - giving it the 13th highest rate of infection in the world, according to figures from 2016.
The World Health Organization (WHO) says circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexual men contracting HIV by around 60%.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Just re-read through this thread, but didn't read any papers on the medical effects. For the papers supporting reduced risk of disease in association with foreskin removal... did they address correlation vs. causation and look across ethnicities and cultures?
Perhaps being circumcised is correlated with other life factors, behaviors that alter the prevalence of disease. For example, circumcision might be correlated with religious beliefs and family values/environment that also affect the degree of promiscuity. I suspect it will need to be teased out with some cultural awareness.
If these things are real factors, then circumcision for disease prevention might be a big waste of time and money and pain. Perhaps issues contributing to promiscuity should be explored more closely.
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