Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Texplorer
Trad climber
Sacramento
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2017 - 01:28pm PT
|
Well Keystone,
Red Rock has had a bolting ban in the backcountry for some time. People are still posting or turning in routes just without the first ascentionist name. That clarifies it had been done and later (conceivably) when bolting there does become legal you can add back your name to the FA with the "gee, somebody must have added bolts to that."
For what it is worth - back when I was putting up lots of routes in Red Rock we never really knew if we were going up new terrain or just rediscovering a route. I would often put the routes on Mountain project but would list as the FRA - first recorded ascent. Later if I found out someone else had done it I could go back and give credit.
|
|
Keystone
Trad climber
Page,AZ
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Mar 15, 2017 - 03:23pm PT
|
There is a fine line between confident, cocky and humble. Which one of these three traits is a painter who signs their work? or has an exhibition? or advertises it for sale? What if someone erased the artist signature and claimed it as their own? What would you say to an artist who burns their work when they finish?
As far as taking the time to understand the Navajo and Park Service….
1. Navajo Land - I am full blooded bilagaana (white) but consider myself culturally half Navajo. I grew up on the edge of the Res, my school was 80% Navajo, a big reason I still live and teach school here is because I love the culture. I feel that I have spent a lifetime trying to understand and respect their beliefs. Every route I have done on the Res was with the permission of the locals that lived there. But I don’t feel that it would be appropriate to put those routes out in the public.
2. The Park Service has been just as big in my life but trying to understand them is quite a bit more perplexing than the Dine’. My first job when I was out of high school was on Lake Powell, I worked as a river guide in Glen and Grand Canyons for a good chunk of my life and I have owned a fishing guide service on Lake Powell for the last 9 years. I am VERY intimate with how they operate. I do not want this thread to head off in the wrong direction so I will leave my personal feeling of the NPS out of it but I do feel like I have tried to understand them and why they do things. I know that it is extremely important that the NPS have rules to protect the environment from people that might do harm. With that being said I would like to offer my opinion as to why fixed anchors are banned in GCNR. It is because of the house boats. Houseboats are very difficult to anchor to the shore if you don’t have nice deep sand, so people drill anchors in the sandstone to moor their boats. BUT they don’t use pretty little climbing hangers, they use rebar and big ol’ eye bolts that are not only hideous to look at but can be very dangerous when they are hidden just under the surface of the rising lake. I don’t think the no fixed anchor law in Glen Canyon has anything to do with climbing. I bet if an organization were to make a stink about it, they could get the rule reversed. Just a guess though. I'm too busy to make a stink.
Just out of curiosity; is there any other National Park or Recreation Area that has a no fixed anchor law? I know that Chiricahua National Monument doesn’t allow them. Are there others?
|
|
Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2017 - 05:41pm PT
|
So going back to your original point about doing this mostly for humility, IMHO, we have a lot of opportunities to develop and display humility, when evaluating other people's beliefs and behaviors, by acknowledging the commonalities between what they're doing in forming those beliefs and what we do to form ours. And if, in the end, we don't modify our own beliefs and behaviors to respect other people's beliefs and behaviors, maybe that's just an opportunity for us to develop the self-knowledge and humility to understand why others do the same. Easier said than done :-)
Gold. What Ksolem said about ego and too stupid to know where to look is also great. Don't want to beat the dead horse (but I guess I will!), but want to re-enforce that it is OK to document whatever the hell you climbed. As long as you understand these routes do not make you all that important in the grand scheme of things, it is all good! We can chase the wind if it makes us happy and it is important for our homeostasis :)
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2017 - 08:19pm PT
|
Who you calling a stasis?! :)
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!