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m_jones
Trad climber
Carson City, NV
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Mar 17, 2016 - 07:41pm PT
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Just a dry rope but not too skinny. Yes I've been at it off and on 45 years now. And it never occurred to me either with one rope. Until it happened. Like Werner said things happen to everyone and it is so sad when it does. I guess a simple take away is once you survive leaving the anchor, just repeat "end of the rope" over and over and keep minding that proximity.
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TWP
Trad climber
Mancos, CO & Bend, OR
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Mar 18, 2016 - 06:18pm PT
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Keep thinking "end of the rope."
Yes, and keep thinking, as one gets closer to the end of the rope, that the amount of friction created through the descending device hits a point where friction RAPIDLY GOTS TO ALMOST NOTHING! SO ONCE CLOSE TO THE END OF THE ROPE, GET SUPER CAREFUL.
(I discovered this fact during a "near-miss" when I got near to the end of a rappel (with no knot(s) in the end of the rope) and almost came off the end.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Mar 18, 2016 - 06:32pm PT
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Wow, Max.
I hadn't considered that differential friction due to a rope pile on a ledge would move the middle mark away from the anchors.
I have seen this sort of thing happen many times with 2 different sized ropes.
I always attributed it to "differential stretch".
But probably it has always been "differential friction" in the ATC.
And I see how a rope pileup on one side would create the same situation.
I think this becomes the "primary cause" of this accident.
And a new risk factor to consider when rappelling.
TWP,
Yes, and keep thinking, as one gets closer to the end of the rope, that the amount of friction created through the descending device hits a point where friction RAPIDLY GOTS TO ALMOST NOTHING! SO ONCE CLOSE TO THE END OF THE ROPE, GET SUPER CAREFUL. Right.
Not just super careful, though.
Wrap the rope once or even twice around your leg when getting close to the end, to increase the friction.
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Mike Friedrichs
Sport climber
City of Salt
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Mar 22, 2016 - 03:32pm PT
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I was out of town all last week and only heard about Mark on yesterday. Terrible. He was one of the good guys. He always looked you in the eye and said hello in that big booming voice he had whether at the crag, the gym, or the supermarket. He was always positive and wanted everyone at the crag to send. I'm so sorry for all his friends, family, students.
As to helmets -- have you ever walked the top of the cliffs at Indian Creek? There are tons of rocks balanced on the edge. Things do fall down. I put my helmet on when I get to the crag and don't take it off until I leave. If the descent is treacherous, or it's dark I wear it to the parking lot. They are so comfortable and light anymore I just don't see the reason not to wear them. Also, I alway pay the extra $20 for a bipattern rope. It's cheap insurance.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Mar 22, 2016 - 08:03pm PT
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I leg wrap a LOT when I rap. I'll do a half-wrap if I have the slightest unease about anything, an elongated single wrap when I get anywhere near the end, and full triple wrap w/ an over-the-shoe finish if I need to stop and inspect/do anything hands-off. All the leg wrapping I do is done almost automatically with my leg alone and never involves my hands in any way.
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doug redosh
Trad climber
golden, CO
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Mar 23, 2016 - 09:34am PT
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As regards to the "3 simple steps" for rappelling, an acronym I learned recently from Deb Thompson: BARK!
1. B - Belay device threaded properly?
2. A - Anchor sufficient?
3. R - Rope down on ledge/ground or long enough to reach next anchors?
4. K - Karabiner (sic) (or take the German spelling) locked?
I now do this simple 4 step check before every rappell!
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Mar 23, 2016 - 12:30pm PT
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With different diameter ropes I often set up the rappel as usual then put a prussic around both ropes and clip it to the anchor to prevent slippage. First climber raps and ties tails into next anchor. Then second removes prussic and raps per usual.
I never thought about uneven weighting due to one side being caught on a ledge. Even old dogs can learn something.
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jstan
climber
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Mar 23, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
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What's an ATC? It may have been Weldit's posts that clued me in to mussy hooks and shuts. Ugly ideas I think. When I could not walk off I rappelled with a biner chain, biner brake bar, and a fairly new sling of 1" nylon at the anchor. We also used to double the anchor set up for all but the last rappeller. If you have lots of rope you can even retrieve your sling.
I do have a question about different diameter ropes. Since the smaller rope stretches more, the common practice was to let the large diameter rope be the one passing through the 1" sling. That way the double fisherman knot would not pass through the sling and you were basically rappelling on the bigger rope. No slippage at the anchor. I would hate to rappel when the rope is sawing on the sling.
If I planned to retrieve the sling I took care never to reveal what I was doing. When the sling would come sailing down, more often than not, the wide eyed second would ask, "How did you do that?" I, of course, told them, "When you are really good, you will be able to do this too."
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labrat
Trad climber
Erik O. Auburn, CA
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Mar 23, 2016 - 01:40pm PT
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ATC = Air Traffic Controller
I was taught never ever to rappel through a sling because of the likelihood of the sawing motion. The risk is just too high, if you have to ascend the rope for any reason the cutting action would make it even more of a risk.
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cragnshag
Social climber
san joser
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Mar 23, 2016 - 01:54pm PT
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Condolences to the fallen climber. I'm amazed at my good fortune over the years to still be in one piece. And I have learned that no matter how experienced or careful one is, accidents can and will happen in our chosen activity. We accept that risk and move forward with our endeavors.
I've experienced the uneven weighting thing a few times. Usually on a steep pitch where one end is all the way down and the other end is 30' from the anchor, tangled in a bush. Being to lazy to pull up the bushed end, I'll just rap down, swing a couple wraps around my legs and fish the end out of the bush. Granted, i'm pretty high up and there is no chance that the bushed end will get pulled up in any significant quantity (not to mention the fact that the tangle in the bush has my complete attention), but I can feel the rope moving differentially and see the bushed end start to rise.
On a related note... Clint- Many many times when you would rappel first and swing around, perhaps scoping out nearby routes or trying to to unstick stuck gear on the way down, I would casually squeeze our unequally sized ropes just below the anchor when I saw some slipping during your rappel. Depending on the steepness and other factors I would squeeze less or more to keep the ropes from slipping. For the most part this just allowed me to get on rappel more quickly when you were at the next anchor since I didn't have to pull the knot back up to the belay. In the back of my mind I would know how much slippage to account for in the skinny rope and adjust how I held my brake hand to compensate if I felt like it could be close. Of course, if it was close you would usually have the ends with you.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Mar 23, 2016 - 04:24pm PT
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Bob,
Yes, it's always a little disturbing to see the rope move through the anchor when your partner is rapping. My thin rope is even thinner now, so it moves even more. I tried grabbing both strands as you described, but now it's so thin I wasn't able to prevent the slippage. Using a Jumar worked fine, though! :-)
I was taught never ever to rappel through a sling because of the likelihood of the sawing motion. The risk is just too high, if you have to ascend the rope for any reason the cutting action would make it even more of a risk. It's not a high risk in my view, unless your ropes are very muddy.
I've rapped from slings many times.
But Bob often has spare chain links and we use 'em.
It does preserve the sling for possible future use by the next party.
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melski
Trad climber
bytheriver
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Mar 27, 2016 - 01:09pm PT
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having rapped on 9 s and 11 combos for years and as being the second half the time i;ve never noticed more than a small amount of shifting in the anchor,,not saying it cant happen,,sporty areas we all know are very distracting for all involved,,still if not 100% sure,,,,,tie the knots,,,never have and never plan on wearing a helmet,,,even on my bike,,or driving my car,,peace and love,,
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