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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Jul 26, 2014 - 07:35pm PT
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Tom thanks for posting the video. Great stuff.
Copyright 2002
The Obsidian Trail Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ1l0A_c4ns
The Obsidian Trail Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tjw6PK-1cu4
The Obsidian Trail Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpCjIhdgRvE
I recall the dig just north of Bishop along south-side of 395 and the video certainly has scenes from that too. Cool.
Jul 26, 2014 - 09:11am PT
Even I know that once you're arguing with klimmer you're f*#ked, and I barely post here.
That being said, you set up a bullshit argument one you made the assumption that some obsidian flakes in the Owen's valley are comparable to a Spanish galleon on the ocean floor, there are many layers of bullshit stacked on this argument. Blah.
Show me the high dollar market for some pot sherds, obsidian chips, corn cobs, pieces of basket, or some other commonly found artifact.
Don't loot arc sites, if you do, I hope 53 feds show up at your door with an arrest warrant.
Franky,
1) Debate is good.
2) This story has further very important implications that I'm trying to bring out. It isn't just about the OP story. That story is a catalyst for probing deeper, and asking more serious questions that are relevant.
3) I think rather than treat citizens as antagonists, and the Feds ("The Man") dead-set against the people, aren't we supposed to be a nation " ... of the people, for the people, and by the people?" as Lincoln so eloquently said in a famous speech? Rather than rule with a hammer, why not rule with honey? You'd get more cooperation if you worked with people/citizens rather than against them. A fair reward system would save an incredible amount of discoveries from being lost. Everyone wins.
4) The governments are too heavy handed against their citizens, case in point -- 53 Feds against one old man. C'mon that's draconian. That's a a massive overreach by Big Brother, as are drones, spying on the citizens by the NSA, and we could go on and on ...
5) My examples were chosen to make a point. What is true for the big treasure finds should be true and scaled to the smaller treasure finds. Its about being fair and it can be scaled to fit the treasure or archeological finds that are found.
5) I never said anything in regards to encouraging looting. Never. That's wrong. However, discoveries are discoveries. It takes discoverers to make discoveries, without which science doesn't progress. Protect your interests if you are the discoverer. Reward people appropriately and fairly. Simple. The Golden Rule.
6) Obviously you are into heavy handed government. To each their own. I'm not. Maybe you'd like for people who have ever picked up an arrowhead to receive the death penalty too?
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Jul 26, 2014 - 07:39pm PT
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"so far as yr grandpa goes, i personally would be pretty pissed if random rednecks were systematically looting my grampa's old homestead. whether or not i'd have legal remedies available would depend. "
Funny. I've been to my great grandmothers homestead.
The 150 year old trash pile out back of the remains of the house (just the foundation was left) was still there.
The rednecks can have it. Its still just trash. Even if its 150 years old.
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ruppell
climber
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Jul 26, 2014 - 08:18pm PT
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klk
you dumb sh#t
LET'S DANCE.
Upon your idea of dancing.
You are a putz.
You can't help it
You have know clue
Speak Up?
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 26, 2014 - 08:26pm PT
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klk
you dumb sh#t
LET'S DANCE.
Upon your idea of dancing.
You are a putz.
heh
cheers dude
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ruppell
climber
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Jul 26, 2014 - 09:26pm PT
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klk
Cheers it is.
I'll show you these "sites"
That grandpa forgot about. If you'll concede to pull your panties back up over your heals.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 20, 2015 - 10:38am PT
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At least the Lone Pine guy treated the artifacts with some sort of respect.
Unlike the U.S. Government, who deemed it necessary to destroy thousands of artifacts, thought to be 10,000 years old, in order to build a solar plant that'll probably be obsolete in a decade.
"The tribes lost a battle with the Bureau of Land Management to get the developer of the 1,950-acre Genesis plant to bypass a 125-acre area where most of the nearly 3,000 artifacts from the solar-plant site were found."
"The artifacts include 364 metates and metate fragments; 277 manos, the handheld grinding tool used with metates; 69 hammer stones; and 63 flake tools, including projectile points and scrapers; 122 stone cores and 786 flakes from tool making."
"Many of the artifacts, some of which might date 10,000 years, appeared to have been broken in an instant by the machinery used to dig them up."
http://www.pe.com/articles/artifacts-765201-site-tribes.html
When I tell you the government is in the business of picking winners and losers - the winners being the big money interests - this is a perfect example. NextEra Energy Resources being the chosen winner here.
The article scratched the surface, by noting the relationship between NextEra Energy Resources and Sec of Interior ( The White House ). I'll bet if they took the next step, they'd find the political contributions explaining the whole thing.
The guy in Lone Pine, however, he probably thought he didn't need to buy anybody off.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Apr 20, 2015 - 10:45am PT
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How much did the 53 bureaucrats get paid for this expedition?
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