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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 12, 2014 - 01:15am PT
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Just stated that some folks have had enough of the FEDS strong arming the small time American citizen.
To the extent that they massacred innocent civilians (including many children) in 'retaliation' for the deaths/prosecution of 'small time American citizens who just happened to be engaged in unlawful acts of open aggression against their government.
Those people were determied to die, to advance their own twisted agendas.
You'd fit right in maybe you should join up and get your ticket punched by an agent. We'll all be real proud.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 12, 2014 - 01:19am PT
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"Those people were determied to die, to advance their own twisted agendas. "
Blame the victims, Fluffy. Be consistent.
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 12, 2014 - 01:30am PT
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Blame the victims, Fluffy. Be consistent.
You think Koresh et.al were victims? Bullsh*t
Actions have consequences.
Comparing these maniacs to the innocent people at the federal center puts you in the same corner as the chief. Not a good place to be.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 12, 2014 - 01:31am PT
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Mr Kay,
I'd go with the cops. Keep my mouth shut. And call my lawyer when I got to jail.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 01:34am PT
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A local rural Barney fud leo is NOT the Federal Gov't.
This was a Forest Service cop... just like those were BLM cops. All part of Obama's army. The only difference is... I wasn't breaking the law, I haven't refused to pay any required fees since 1990, and I acted appropriately. In other words, I was a functioning part of the society I live in rather than an anti-government extremist throwing a childish temper tantrum after breaking the law.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Apr 12, 2014 - 01:34am PT
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Fluffy writes:
"Actions have consequences."
Like what actions? Wishing to be left alone?
Wanting to be left alone seems to irritate the government worse than anything else you can do.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 01:57am PT
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Here's a bit earlier picture of the situation from back in March.
“Tell them Bundy’s ready,” the rancher said by phone Tuesday from his home near Bunkerville. “Whenever they’ve got the guts to try it, tell them to come.”
The last time federal authorities laid plans to remove Bundy’s rogue livestock, in April 2012, it ended with veiled threats of violence and a hastily canceled roundup.
Good ol'Merkin anarchy... woot woot!
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/nevada/bunkerville-rancher-vows-resist-federal-roundup-his-cattle
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fluffy
Trad climber
Colorado
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:04am PT
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Like what actions? Wishing to be left alone?
An over-simplification at best. Not my job to educate you on what the Davidians and Weavers were doing to attract the attention of federal agencies.
But you might want to ask yourself why 99.9999% of the people who 'just wish to be left alone' don't get into violent shoot outs with law enforcement.
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Sanskara
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:09am PT
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I would also like to just be left alone. However not paying ones taxes is one of the first ways just about any sane person can guarantee they will not be left alone.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:13am PT
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When Bundy's grazing rights were modified by BLM in 1993, it was in part to protect the species, which inhabits the same publicly-owned desert areas trodden by Bundy's cattle and was at the time on the brink of extinction.
In 1993, Bundy began refusing to pay grazing fees required by the new rules imposed on him by the new BLM agreement.
Damn it, Nixon fuked us all in the ass again with his endangered species act!
I was sh#t faced at the time...
Blue, dark green, whatever... I was 6 nogs to the wind. He was FS because we talked about the fact that I used to work there.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:18am PT
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No chuff, I admit, it might not have been blue. I could very well have made a mistake. I'm man enough to admit that.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:22am PT
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If you want to be left alone, then pay what you owe people.
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Sanskara
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:23am PT
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MeChrist now I'm confused, I didn't think you were a dude?
Or do you just post pictures of women under your photos so your climbing post a get actual attention.
Kidding kidding although there is some truth to that idea. If I get the boot I'm coming back as a hot climber chick ;)
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:23am PT
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Enough nogs to argue with your stupid ass.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:25am PT
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The BLM is on very shaky legal ground in the first place. Those grazing rights were granted under FDR. It's still in court and the BLM is jumping the gun bigtime.. it's happened before.
Wrong. They are granted a revocable license to graze their cattle on federal land.
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Sanskara
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:34am PT
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Sorry Mr. Landlord I didn't have my rent $$$ the past couple months and I lost my job and don't know where I'm getting it next month
Well I'm sorry to hear that sir but you gotta pay your rent. If not I'll have no choice but to go get a court order and a summons and have your ass removed..
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:37am PT
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You realize they are talking about over 600,000 acres of federal land... and the SRHA allotted less than 640 acres per homesteader. We know how you feel about numbers, but think about it for a minute...
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Bargainhunter
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:50am PT
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There was an in depth article by Malcolm Gladwell two weeks ago in the New Yorker about the Waco siege.
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2014/03/31/140331fa_fact_gladwell
I also read over the summary in wikipedia about Ruby Ridge, which I thought was fairly objective.
I really feel that these issues were mishandled terribly and tragically by law enforcement. The senseless deaths could have been prevented.
Seeing the video of the current Nevada conflict looks like history could repeat itself. The emotions are high, the Fed LEOs tend to bulldoze against resistance instead of finding a reasonable way to negotiate and de-escalate the tensions. Further resentment simmers, then blowback occurs and another Oklahoma bombing results. Further pressure is placed to the government to deal with lawless "sovereign citizens", and the government does so by being even more militarized and belligerent in the next conflict, repeating the cycle.
I bet if there had been a good negotiator, perhaps an non-LEO based one, or perhaps a trusted LOCAL sheriff or rancher or small town mayor or respected neighbor, these conflicts might have been handled peacefully with simple citations and weapons confiscations and reasonable jail time, instead of what happened.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:54am PT
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46 families that were already settled in the area with 2-3 potential Head of Households/Entrymen per family be that number.
Hmmm, interesting. So take those 46 families and give them... fuk it... give them 10 heads of households EACH. That is still shy of 300,000 acres... HALF of the land in question... AT MOST... if there were 10 heads of households per family (unit of measure, not mine)!
Oh, but you say 2-3 potential head of households... so under 90,000 acres, 15% of the land in question.
That is OUR BLM land... land where there are absolutely NO access fees what so ever. NONE. And probably some state park land mixed in there somewhere.
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John M
climber
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Apr 12, 2014 - 02:56am PT
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Not according the agreement the feds made with them under the The Stock-Raising Homestead Act of 1916.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock-Raising_Homestead_Act
That has been the Bundy Ranch families defense since this all began in the spring of 1993 all over the Nevada Tortoise.
that was his contention, which he lost in federal court.
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