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murcy
climber
sanfrancisco
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Aug 27, 2010 - 09:21pm PT
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But a case could be made that Ammon poses a constant threat of danger to himself and others. :)
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Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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Aug 27, 2010 - 10:00pm PT
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Holy Crap!
Just read all of this. TAZING a base jumper? That is just insane! I pretty much agree with most of what has been posted...
You base jump, you realize you are breaking the law and might get caught. But heck, who has not broken some law in their life realizing they might get caught? You speed on a deserted stretch of highway...should you get tazed? I mean, it's one thing to commit a crime that endangers anyone other than yourself...I just cannot get over this show of force for a base jumper.
Yes, the libertarian side of me thinks this activity should be legal. The realistic side can see why it is not. But tazing?
That is just bullsh#t. Whoever tazed him should be...TAZED!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 27, 2010 - 10:10pm PT
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I don't know what happened,
I just don't like the idea that a friend was Tasered for the act of jumping off a cliff and parachuting to the ground...
for that act he was met with a show of force way out of line with any implications or consequences of the jump he had just executed. I mean really, he just basically risks his life doing the base jump and then has to run for his life with the authorities having to prove they have control over the situation....
totally inappropriate.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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Aug 27, 2010 - 10:17pm PT
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My first instinct is to agree with a lot of folks that it's way out of line to get tasered. But I'd have to hear the specifics first.
But, theoretically speaking, let's say someone runs for it after a base jump, a car chase is involved, and some little kid gets run over during the chase?
Then suddenly everyone would be singing a different tune.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Aug 27, 2010 - 10:23pm PT
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I never thought that "hot pursuit" was de facto justified...
the authorities wouldn't have been after Ammon if he hadn't jumped, if he hadn't violated "the rules"
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jstan
climber
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Aug 27, 2010 - 10:26pm PT
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It is right that we all be very interested in this.
It is even more right that we wait until we have some information.
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murcy
climber
sanfrancisco
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Aug 27, 2010 - 10:30pm PT
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Try substituting: if he hadn't run, he wouldn't have been decapitated. It's only because he resisted arrest for double-parking that he was decapitated.
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Aug 27, 2010 - 10:32pm PT
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Scott,
The rangers didn't kill anyone. That dude ran and jump into a swollen river.
Ed,
Ammon was not tasered for BASE. He was tased for resisting arrest or fleeing.
Fleeing/running from the cops probably made his misdemeanor a FELONY.
He went from a slap on the wrist to big trouble.
He is sure to get banded from national parks for years.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 27, 2010 - 10:41pm PT
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What's happening Dingus?
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Aug 27, 2010 - 10:42pm PT
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What did he really think was going to happen for flying the Jolly Roger?
There be ony two ranks of leader amongst us pirates! Captain and if your really notorious then it’s Cap’n! Cap'n McNeely. Yarrrr!
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Aug 27, 2010 - 11:13pm PT
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Some of you guys crack me up.
What is going on here is not some rational thing where you decide to break the law and you know what will happen. It’s a crap shoot. It’s the chimps of Gombe. It’s timeless and elemental. When you mess with the man, you just don’t know what will happen. In some ways he was lucky. It’s the USA, he just got tasered. Those poor three hikers are still in jail in Iran for just straying over the border- if they even did that. I don’t know what happened here but he took his chances. Some here have said he must have done something to tick them off. Not necessarily. People with guns get hyped up and the fight or flight mechanisms kick in and stuff happens. Is it right? No. Is it one of the reasonably expected out comes of a run in with the law? Yes.
DMT
I like “banded” better. “ Yeah, I jumped off El Cap and they banded me. Now when I migrate to south America every year they can track me and my flock.”
Zander
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Aug 27, 2010 - 11:22pm PT
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Sure, DMT...the arrest is bogus cuz they didn't run after him and tackle him?
So the cops should have to be able to outrun any perp, risk injury, and get into a physical altercation by catching, tackling and subdueing suspects, no matter their size and then you will be happy?
Or just let everyone that runs get away?
Don't you people know...
"if the police have to come and get you, they're bringin' an ass kickin' with them".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Aug 27, 2010 - 11:35pm PT
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Hey Warbler,
I read your post and immediately started nodding, "Yeah, that makes sense." Except... as I get older I see events seem to get away from people. Rationality and control are a lot of the time an illusion. Events start and they take on their own twisted logic. I await the actual description of what happened but I doubt the clean cause and effect you describe. Actually, I wish the world was more rational and understandable as your post suggests.
Zander
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Aug 27, 2010 - 11:39pm PT
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The rangers SAVED ammon.
He was about to jump through traffic like frogger.
Ranger +1
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R.B.
Trad climber
Land of the Volcanic Mud Flow
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Aug 27, 2010 - 11:40pm PT
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You know the 2nd Ammendment now allows people to carry firearms on Federal Lands such as National Parks. From what I hear, the FED law generally bends to the "State" Laws. But think about this one ... The supremacy clause of Federal Law ALWAYS trumps local or state law.
If you don't believe that ... Just asK the State of Arizona about the immigration law that the Obuma Admin. just sued them over. If it's good for the goose it's good for the gander!
So maybe the LEO's were afraid that the "evil" base jumper was gonna pull a pistola ... and pop a coupla caps in their arse.
That's probably why they tased 'em.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Aug 27, 2010 - 11:46pm PT
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The Second Amendment says nothing about carrying guns in National Parks or on Federal Land.
BUT, President Obama recently signed a bill that allows people who have a Concealed Carry license to carry loaded and concealed in the National Park within that State that their license is valid. He is the first President to expand gun rights in this manner.
If you do not have a Concealed Carry license, then you can still bring a gun into a park, if the bullets are kept separate and the gun itself is like in the trunk and has a lock on it.
What you do with it, or course, once you disclose you have a gun with you in this fashion at the gate, is a different issue.
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R.B.
Trad climber
Land of the Volcanic Mud Flow
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Aug 27, 2010 - 11:48pm PT
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Good point Norton, but the second ammendment is the right behind the basis of the new law ... so tangentially ... may be correct ... who cares?
edit: And when the law is challenged in federal court, I will bet the ruling will be that "State Law" has nothing to do with the right.
In other words ... Fed trumps State trumps County trumps Local. It's funny to see how many communities across the USA get this hierarchy wrong!
(since when did a State immigration Law override a Federal Law ... just ask Arizona ... seems like that's the trend?!)
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Aug 27, 2010 - 11:52pm PT
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it is amazing how many opinions are being expressed even though nobody knows even one side of the story! I'm very interested to hear the most important three or four sides of the story so I can even start to form an opinion.
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