Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
No my strategy is to reject 'shoot first ask questions later' coupled with 'what we don't know is good for us' and then multiplied by the utter speculative bullshit of citing 2 of 20 spies revealed to the Chinese. (Oh MY!)
Who is shooting? The Guardian? You're on the side of a foreign entity?
You ask for what would be an example, and when it is supplied, you decry it as utter speculative bullsh#t? You, sir, are a manipulative liar.
You KNOW that the damage has to be classified, for the reasons I mentioned in my hypothetical.
So you, the arch bullshitologist, decry the lack of evidence, when you know it cannot be supplied TO YOU, or the rest of the public. Go sit in the cell with Manning and Snowden, your friends, and Russia and China, your other friends.
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
I think there's a half-hidden Democrat - Republican agenda going on in this debate. To clearify my position from the other side of the pond: I clearly and without doubt prefer Obama to Bush, but just because I prefer Obama to Bush, I'm not bound to support all of Obama's or the present US government's actions. There is no need to be reduced to a tool or a slave of any authority.
The Guardian is at present giving voice to a matter I see as important. In the long view I think the world will be thankful because The Guardian has given this a voice and a face, even America. Though some Americans at present see the reading of The Guardian as Un-American. Something that just makes me stunned...
And if the reading of The Guardian by the US government is considered Un-American: Are then the American and European readers and posters of articles from The Guardian by the NSA seen as potential terrorists and followed closely? Should we be scared? Is there an intention to scare people to silence?
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
I think there's a half-hidden Democrat - Republican agenda going on in this debate. To clearify my position from the other side of the pond: I clearly and without doubt prefer Obama to Bush, but just because I prefer Obama to Bush, I'm not bound to support all of Obama's or the present US government's actions. There is no need to be reduced to a tool or a slave of any authority.
The Guardian is at present giving voice to a matter I see as important. In the long view I think the world will be thankful because The Guardian has given this a voice and a face, even America. Though some Americans at present see the reading of The Guardian as Un-American. Something that just makes me stunned...
And if the reading of The Guardian by the US government is considered Un-American: Are then the American and European readers and posters of articles from The Guardian by the NSA seen as potential terrorists and followed closely? Should we be scared? Is there an intention to scare people to silence?
Really, Marlow?
Does the british collect information on America?
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
It is the first time the third has been used in a long time.
That's what makes the case significantly different.
But, the Third is one of the Bill of CIVIL Rights that the "progressives" use to declare its obsolescence.
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
“[America’s intelligence gathering] capability at any time could be turned around on the American people and no American would have any privacy left. Such is the capability to monitor everything: telephone conversations, telegrams, it doesn’t matter. There would be no place to hide.
If this government ever became a tyrant, if a dictator ever took charge in this country, the technological capacity that the intelligence community has given the government could enable it to impose total tyranny, and there would be no way to fight back because the most careful effort to combine together in resistance to the government, no matter how privately it was done, is within the reach of the government to know. Such is the capability of this technology.
I don’t want to see this country ever go across the bridge. I know the capacity that is there to make tyranny total in America, and we must see to it that [the NSA] and all agencies that possess this technology operate within the law and under proper supervision so that we never cross over that abyss. That is the abyss from which there is no return.”
Sen Frank Church, Meet the Press, 1975
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
US director of national intelligence James Clapper lied to congress under oath regarding NSA spying and somehow nobody wants to prosecute him. The same people who post here who justified the impeachment of Clinton for lying under oath are not disturb by lying about a much more serious issue.
Geez Nixon had to resign just for bugging and searching a psychiatrist's office and Bush and Obama bug the whole country and just shrug our shoulders.
The whistle blowers for the financial crisis, war lies, torture, and NSA spying all go to jail or are wanted but the perpetrators of those crimes all walk
Shame!
karl
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
Geez Nixon had to resign just for bugging and searching a psychiatrist's office and Bush and Obama bug the whole country and just shrug our shoulders.
well Karl
there IS a very big difference in your comparisons that you seem to be missing
Nixon was personally involved in an ILLEGAL action that only he and his top aids knew of
Bush and Obama did nothing illegal and it was both houses of CONGRESS who voted and approved the NSA spying funding
so, not a valid comparison, obviously
|
|
crunch
Social climber
CO
|
|
It's been fifty years since the days of Vietnam and the protests and civil disobedience of that era. Glad to finally have a new generation of youngsters with some spine.
We've all been getting fat and lazy and complacent--too comfortable.
Props to Manning, Snowden, Tim DeCristopher, Aaron Schwartz, and a few others who have been brave enough to confront and defy authority.
If not Snowden, now, it would be some other 20-some kid next year or the year after and the stink would be even bigger, even worse.
I'm psyched to hear of these young kids standing up for what they believe in. Especially psyched because what they believe in is pretty much the kind of society--open, free, transparent, with the government working for the people, that the US constitution's framers wanted to see.
Manning: "I want people to see the truth, because without information you cannot make informed decisions as a public."
Snowden: "This is the truth. This is what is happening. You [the public] should decide whether we need to be doing this."
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
it was both houses of CONGRESS who voted and approved the NSA spying funding
Then why did the NSA have to lie to congress about what they were doing. I contend that if we really knew the whole scope of what the NSA does in detail, we'd find that it was very much illegal, far more than anything Nixon did regarding watergate.
Peace
Karl
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
You jackasses created these very same terrorists.
Then set up a so called secret spy system to monitor for the same stupid terrorist that you originally created and you already know who they are since they're working for you.
See how fuking stupid you people are.
On top of it the same terrorists you created and say we have to protect ourselves from are hired by your same stupid leaders to be used for it's imperialism against other countries for their resources.
The system you retards have created has only created a sh!thole hell on earth.
Everything you retards touch turns to sh!t and and death.
Stupid fuking fools ......
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
"Also do you guys understand why this has to be top secret?
And why we are now far less safe because terrorists and would be terrorists now know about this ?"
Oh come on! Why do climber agree to be pussies when it comes to the bogyman? Wouldn't we be safer if climbing was just outlawed?
and is it really such a surprise to a terrorist that their communications might be monitored!?
All this NSA stuff is really about being ready to spy on Americans when the economy crashes for real and people realize we've been sold down the river
Peace
karl
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
http://www.nytimes.com
The officials said .....
And hedge gobbles it up and believes every word of their govt. spooled out media propaganda as usual.
You deserve to be raped my them .....
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
Then why did the NSA have to lie to congress about what they were doing. I contend that if we really knew the whole scope of what the NSA does in detail, we'd find that it was very much illegal, far more than anything Nixon did regarding watergate.
Peace
Karl
Karl, in your vision of a peace-loving America, isn't there a requirement for proof of wrongdoing, or is your vision about condemning people with no evidence whatsoever?
Or, do you envision a system in which a trusted few are in a position to examine those things which should not be revealed to the public?
OH! That's what we have!
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
"America's National Security Agency works closely with Germany and other Western states on a "no questions asked"-basis.... " "They are in bed with the Germans, just like with most other Western states," German magazine Der Spiegel quotes him (Edward Snowden) as saying in an interview published on Sunday that was said to be carried out before he fled to Hong Kong in May and divulged details of extensive secret US surveillance.
"Other agencies don't ask us where we got the information from and we don't ask them. That way they can protect their top politicians from the backlash in case it emerges how massively people's privacy is abused worldwide," he said.
His comments about cooperation with governments overseas, which he said were led by the NSA's foreign affairs directorate, appear to contradict the German government's show of surprise at the scale of the US electronic snooping. "
Comment: What may be appearing is the governments and some large corporations of the western world cooperating to monitor their own peoples words and actions at the same time as they are trying their best to keep common people in ignorance of what they are doing and pretending to be upset because of the monitoring when common people get access to information about it. If so: They are building a system based on distrust to everybody and we are left with politicians trying to build an image of trusting their people and themselves being "trustworthy" by appearing surprised and upset when the monitoring is discovered.
The whole article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/07/edward-snowden-spiegel-nsa-germans
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
Karl, in your vision of a peace-loving America, isn't there a requirement for proof of wrongdoing, or is your vision about condemning people with no evidence whatsoever?
Or, do you envision a system in which a trusted few are in a position to examine those things which should not be revealed to the public?
OH! That's what we have!
In my version of America we have this document called the constitution. The Fourth Amendment to it states
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
The Fisa court never turns down a warrant and sometimes they go without them anyway.
The fact is, government power often seeks even more power and there must be a REAL check on that power or we could descend into the system we see and condemn elsewhere. We don't need to get in everybody's business to thwart a limited group of radicals who have managed to kill far far fewer people than aspirin since 9-11
Peace
Karl
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
Condi Rice: But we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud.
Hedge: Would the loss of a major population center cause far fewer deaths than bicycles, I wonder
Looks like Hedge is going all GOP on us.
Hey Hedge, when are we gonna invade Iraq again?
|
|
TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
|
|
Ten ways to dodge the spies
5:30 AM Saturday Jul 6, 2013
Runaway spy Edward Snowden has revealed how US intelligence agencies agencies snoop on everyday communications around the world. Australian academic James H. Hamlyn-Harris explains how to protect yourself online
Last weekend, the Washington Post published a further four slides, leaked from the US' National Security Agency (NSA), which outline how data is collected through the Prism program.
The process is fairly simple: after an NSA analyst identifies a new surveillance target and a supervisor endorses the analyst's "reasonable belief" (defined as 51 per cent confidence) that the target is a foreign national and overseas at the time, data collection can begin. Just say you're one of these new targets, or you simply don't want to be incidentally monitored. How can you minimise the amount of data you share?
Commentators generally agree the NSA's Prism technology is based on optical fibre "wiretaps" placed at the connection of internet providers to companies like Google, Yahoo and Facebook in the US. (Tapping the signal here gives the companies plausible deniability, as the tap occurs outside their premises - or maybe they just don't know, as they claim.) A copy of the optical signal is split off and routed to a room operated by the NSA, where it is indexed, categorised and shipped back to the NSA for analysis later. Most of the traffic on the optical fibre is transmitted using plain text protocols - packets which contain a plain text header (to and from address) and a payload (the message).
If the payload is encrypted, the NSA still have a good chance of decrypting it. The NSA spent US$2 billion ($2.5 billion) on a massive data centre in Utah, set to open this year, and have commissioned a second in Maryland. These could house enough computers to store the NSA's collection of intercepted traffic for years. Future developments in decryption could allow the NSA to decrypt the messages they are intercepting today.
Under the Patriot Act, signed into law in 2001 in response to the 9/11 terrorist attacks, US agencies have the authority to compel companies like Google, Yahoo and Apple to provide their private cryptographic keys to the NSA, allowing the NSA to decrypt secure traffic going through those companies. Under the same act, it is an offence to tell anyone it has happened. Even without the keys, some "secure" web traffic can be decrypted using brute force methods.
So here are 10 simple ways you can minimise the likelihood of the NSA (and other organisations) monitoring your internet and voice traffic.
1. Encrypt your internet traffic
In the URL field of the browser, type in "https://" before the domain name. Your browser will download a certificate from the website and use it to exchange a shared encryption key. From then on, all your traffic is encrypted. If you don't see "https" in the URL field, it's not encrypted.
2. Check the encryption used by the websites you visit
Not all websites use good keys or encryption algorithms. At ssllabs.com you can test the sites you visit and (politely) ask them to improve their security.
3. Disable internet use tracking
There are two possible approaches to preventing website tracking: black listing and white listing. Black list programs use lists of known spyware sites and block those activities. PeerBlock is one such program. NoScript is a white list system, and turns off JavaScript (a programming language that runs in your browser) when you visit a site unless the site is on the list. Most tracking uses JavaScript, so turning it off makes it harder (but not impossible) for the spies to track you.
4. Encrypt your files
If you upload files to the internet, you might want to control who reads them. An easy solution is to password protect them. Microsoft Office products provide the option of setting a password, but this is not particularly strong. Another approach is to put the file in a zip, rar or 7z container and set the password. The best approach is to use a serious encryption system that really scrambles the file contents with a really big key and a strong algorithm, such as TrueCrypt.
5. Trust no one
Do you use Dropbox? iCloud? Other cloud services? Do you have a password? If you do, so do they. If you forget your password, can they tell you what it is? Some cloud services offer accelerated uploads and syncing. They can do this because they know what you've uploaded. It also means they have the key and can provide it to the NSA. The only way to be sure is to encrypt your files before they leave your computer. Don't use the provider's encryption software. Use open source software, so any hidden back doors will be discovered. AxCrypt is a nice example.
6. Tunnel your traffic
Every message (or web request) you send on the internet has headers - with your address, the destination address, the date and time. Spooks can use this meta-data to link you to your friends and their friends.
Anonymising services and products attempt to obscure your web behaviour by mixing your traffic with other people's traffic and by "tunnelling" (encrypting) your traffic between locations. You install a proxy server or a virtual private network (VPN) client, which encrypts your traffic and sends it to another location, where it is decrypted. The NSA can read the traffic once it leaves the tunnel, but can't separate your traffic from the traffic of other users of the system. The more users there are, the more anonymous your traffic.
7. Secure your kit
To be sure your PC is free of all unwanted software, you can use a read-only operating system. There are many bootable Linux distributions that detect your hardware at boot time and contain a suite of pre-installed programs such as web browsers and VPN clients. Puppy Linux (really fast) and Privatix (really secure) are good examples. They reveal nothing about your computer and cannot be infected because they don't write to the hard disk.
8. Safe text
Texting with a phone is not secure. Skype chat is monitored by Microsoft. Email normally uses unencrypted protocols, and is not secure. Even sending emails through websites (with "https") is no guarantee of security because most mail servers communicate with each other using plain text protocols containing the message, sender and recipient. It is possible to install Pretty Good Privacy (PGP) - an "uncrackable" email encryption scheme - but the process is difficult at best. However, there are some solutions. Gateway devices can implement PGP at the edge of your network, allowing you to exchange encrypted email with minimal configuration. Phone apps such as Silent Circle and iChat can be used to encrypt text messages. CryptoCat does a similar thing through the web.
9. Anonymous searches
We all know Google caches our search terms and profiles us - it's how they generate revenue. But there are other search engines less interested in what we are doing. Duckduckgo and Startpage are examples of alternatives. Another option is to use a different Google (such as google.de or google.ca), or use Tor (anonymity software) or a VPN to use Google from a different country.
10. Voice
Smartphones are great, but are really little computers, and vulnerable to malware, phishing scams and a range of malicious phone apps. Skype voice encryption has been weakened by Microsoft to allow lawful interception. Probably the best option for voice security is the BlackBerry - if you are not in a country where the government has compelled Research In Motion (the company behind BlackBerry) to install a server so local police can intercept calls. NONE OF these suggestions can protect you from a really determined adversary, but they can make things more difficult. If the NSA really suspect you, they can always get a warrant and search your house the old fashioned way. Keep in mind, if you do successfully frustrate them (or law enforcement officers in other countries) there are laws which require you to reveal the passwords or keys used to hide potential evidence; disobeying these laws can result in prison sentences of at least two years depending on the jurisdiction.
• James H. Hamlyn-Harris is a lecturer at the Faculty of Information and Communication Technologies at Swinburne University of Technology in Melbourne.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10895039
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|