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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Has Obama lied ever ?
riley,
you are really out of touch arent you?
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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So many morons out there and way to much technology.
which is exactly the problem with "trusting" the government to do the right thing.
you and hedge would have a fit if a republican were in office and this fiasco was going on.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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So the cat's out of the bag. Persistent surveillance, the thing that most suspected all along. Now, like in all those crazy cop shows, they can zoom in and replay any conversation, txt, email, whatever.
Still, the size of the data capture is mind boggling.
Once you conceptualize it, there's really no going back. It's ubiquitous knowledge that every communication you make through a wire is subject to court review. And don't forget that because the whole operation is classified, those are secret courts that review your communications.
Why should anybody, but the "bad" people, be worried about that?
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Earlier than that, even. The Euro parliament investigated the 'echelon' system a long time ago, and for a short time were extremely concerned. Then, life gets back to normal, as there are all kinds of scandals all the time. Snowden has dramatized it and turned it into a kind of international car chase, but the info was online for all to see. Around 1998, I made a website about echelon, back when there were really no websites about anything. It has the Euro Parliament report, one of the original 'cypherpunk' documents, called the Crpyptography Manifesto, and I also scanned in a number of articles so they wouldn't disappear from history. Someone was kind enough to archive it for me, so it has not. http://www.mega.nu/ampp/paulwolf/echelon.htm
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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hedge,
gald i am irrevelant to you. thats a compliment coming from one who operates on two brain cells.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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I'm gald too
galled or glad?
either one are too high on an emotional scale for your two brain cells to comprehend.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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hedge,
you have nothing to fear from being monitored. they have already determined that you are too stupid to hurt anyone other than yourself. rest easy.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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who's to say that 9/11 would have been found out and prevented IF all this NSA surveillance stuff had been going on back in 2001?
they claim that some 50 terrorist planned attacks on various US infrastructure sites have been prevented already, maybe they are lying about some but again who knows?
I can see this both ways.........
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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here riley.
http://en.ria.ru/world/20130702/182000045/Snowden-Slams-Obama-Over-Interference-in-Asylum-Bid.html
“On Thursday, President Obama declared before the world that he would not permit any diplomatic "wheeling and dealing" over my case,” Snowden said in his first public statement since fleeing Hong Kong eight days ago and posted late Monday on the whistleblowing website WikiLeaks.
“Yet now it is being reported that after promising not to do so, the President ordered his Vice President [Joe Biden]to pressure the leaders of nations from which I have requested protection to deny my asylum petitions,” Snowden said.
“This kind of deception from a world leader is not justice, and neither is the extralegal penalty of exile. These are the old, bad tools of political aggression. Their purpose is to frighten, not me, but those who would come after me,” he added.
our governments communications on this issue is pathetic.
they can't even keep the POTUS and VP on the same page.
an obama lie. it was all over the press. but with your narrow mind its easy to see how it flew by you.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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The digital age has changed the notion of privacy and our laws and constitutional protections need to adapt, or the liberties already lost will never be regained. Basically HIPPA law extended to cover ALL personal data.
That's what the Privacy Act was supposed to be, back in the 1970s. I think it worked at first but now every law passed, every watchlist created, every national security anything of any kind, is exempt. It's the first thing they do with anything related at all to security, is make it exempt from the Privacy Act. It's not rocket science to undo all that, but it will still take a big change in the thinking of the US public, which only cares about Muslim terrorists and Mexican immigrants.
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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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First it begins with politics or politicians having an agenda. If you don’t know by now well that’s your problem. Political agendas or is it Power. It’s both.
Oh! And by all means lies, and lying about lies; never about the TRUTH. Most things hidden are designed to protect reputations and their stupid mistakes & allow the American public to be fooled more smoothly -- not too hard to do.
But I guess it doesn’t bother you if Google knows where you are, where you live and who you sleep with. Corporate Government one of many.
Go to a gas station, fill up with your credit card, get cash from a debit machine in front of your bank or another one like at 7/11 just need to pay fee, maybe pay your groceries, stay at a nice Hotel or Motel 6 where they take a photo of your id, pay online for guns, ammo…..What is so great or no problem: 2 seconds and you are approved unless you are one of those that went over your limit. 2 seconds and you are on your way happy to get out of the crowd of the same people that are doing the same.
Most of us had to fill out the census report a couple of years back. You own a home, rent, own a car or paying with monthly payments, cell phone, pay for electricity, gas.
Where does all that information go to: You would think to the individual institutions; nope, goes to one of those Military contractors that have the massive machines to collect that data so everything is correct? It is even better if they cannot spell your name right which can be a plus for you. FBI, you think they would get it right but boom a bomb goes off because of a misspelled letter or first name.
Yes, good old Corporate America.
Now for the US government secret Data Machine: NSA well that’s just one, MI: Military Intell another that subcontracts out in who is who, what and for some reason with the same people that holds the data or info for other reasons.
Guess you do not care about your rights when the cops; as in a cop pulling you over for a ticket and taking control of your laptops, smart phone data/information without you even knowing about it. Guess you do not care if he says I want a DNA sample since you are suspicious of something you said and he did not like the response and feels you are a threat. You think the courts will believe you or the cop?
2015 cops will have “liar, liar pants on fire” with their voice stress pocket-calculator sized electronic as part of their gear. So when you say two beers, color does not correspond, how many beers again, OK three, same color, Officer then says how about 6 beers and the light finally turns green. Ticket, DNA sample and photo taken with new Facial recognition camera: the ones that they used in Afghanistan that takes every blood vessel, eye, skin and shape so to put it there data base for future use.
All that equipment that is coming home that contractors were using to “fingerprint the body”: and where is all the surplus going to be stored? For the next war: no since there is better and faster data software that will be procured just need to tweak the tweaks. As for the older gear [4 years old] state and local governments get it. Drones have you seen any lately: small ones not the ones with the rockets.
Sure no biggie they are looking for terrorists, what are you worried about as long as you did or have in the past told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Why is or just today they said Data will be stored in the state of Utah. S%it, Mormons have data on everyone and has been collecting it for years. Rumor was 30 years ago a CIA head chessie was a Mormon and what better way to collect info. And that was just for US citizens. Ask a Mormon how they feel about Commies or just about anything and if you are not a Republican, do not think like a Republican you are on a list with lettering next to it. Romney rings a bell. What was on his hit list to get rid of, he mentioned one but wonder what else but he is long gone well for now.
So back to: it begins with politics or politicians having an agenda. If you don’t know by now well that’s your problem. Political agendas or is it Power. It’s both.
Let assume it is election time new leaders: Only two choices: R or D. maybe 6-7 years from now but let’s go back to the last election and the same people that have argued 50 years ago and argue today the same issues: Gay rights, marriage, abortion, and those things that are American or is it un-American. Apple pie is safe as well as baseball.
But let’s discuss those players and the players to be or could take charge, tried lost but try and try again till they get in.
Koch brothers spent millions of their own funds {PAC] to defeat Obama why: regulations they don’t want no stinking regulations, they created and still do talk about no such thing as global warming; Made a half a dozen films or propaganda films on the subject. Fool the Americans; fool everyone, allowing the American public to be fooled more smoothly.
Accordingly, here are 10 facts that every American should know about who the Kochs are and what they're doing to our country.
1. Koch Industries, which the brothers own, is one of the top ten polluters in the United States -- which perhaps explains why the Kochs have given $60 million to climate denial groups between 1997 and 2010.
2. The Kochs are the oil and gas industry's biggest donors to the congressional committee with oversight of the hazardous Keystone XL oil pipeline. They and their employees gave more than $300,000 to members of the House Energy and Commerce Committee in 2010 alone.
3. From 1998-2008, Koch-controlled foundations gave more than $196 million to organizations that favor polices that would financially enrich the two brothers. In addition, Koch Industries spent $50 million on lobbying and some $8 million in PAC contributions.
4. The Koch fortune has its origins in engineering contracts with Joseph Stalin's Soviet Union.
5. The Kochs are suing to take over the Cato Institute, which has accused the Kochs of attempting to destroy the group's identity as an independent, libertarian think and align it more closely with a partisan agenda.
6. A Huffington Post source who was at a three-day retreat of conservative billionaires said the Koch brothers pledged to donate $60 million to defeat President Obama in 2012 and produce pledges of $40 million more from others at the retreat.
7. Since 2000, the Kochs have collected almost $100 million in government contracts, mostly from the Department of Defense.
8. Koch Industries has an annual production capacity of 2.2 billion pounds of the carcinogen formaldehyde. The company has worked to keep it from being classified as a carcinogen even though David Koch is a prostate cancer survivor.
9. The Koch brothers' combined fortune of roughly $50 billion is exceeded only by that of Bill Gates in the United States.
10. The Senate Select Committee on Indian Affairs accused Koch Oil of scheming to steal $31 million of crude oil from Native Americans. Although the company claimed it was accidental, a former executive in this operation said Charles Koch had known about it and had responded to the overages by saying, "I want my fair share, and that's all of it."
That last quote -- "I want my fair share, and that's all of it" -- encapsulates the unbridled greed driving the Kochs' political activism and business dealings. Democracy cannot thrive with so much power being in the hands of men like this. If we care about democracy, we have to work to take it back.
That is one: By the way Fred Koch the father was one of the founding members the John Birch Society. Just one of: “group of 12”.
Next group: The Council for National Policy (CNP)
It is an umbrella organization and networking group for social conservative activists in the United States. It has been described by The New York Times as a "little-known group of a few hundred of the most powerful conservatives in the country," who meet three times yearly behind closed doors at undisclosed locations for a confidential conference.[1] Nation magazine has called it a secretive organization that "networks wealthy right-wing donors together with top conservative operatives to plan long-term movement strategy."[2] It was founded in 1981 by Tim LaHaye as a forum for conservative Christians seeking to strengthen the political right in the United States.[3]
The CNP describes itself as "an educational foundation organized under Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code. We do not lobby Congress, support candidates, or issue public policy statements on controversial issues. Our over 600 members include many of our nation's leaders from the fields of government, business, the media, religion, and the professions. Our members are united in their belief in a free enterprise system, a strong national defense, and support for traditional western values. They meet to share the best information available on national and world problems, know one another on a personal basis, and collaborate in achieving their shared goals."
The CNP was founded in 1981. Among its founding members were: Tim LaHaye, then the head of the Moral Majority, Nelson Bunker Hunt, T. Cullen Davis, William Cies, and Paul Weyrich.[4]
Members of the CNP have included: General John Singlaub, shipping magnate J. Peter Grace, Edwin J. Feulner Jr of the Heritage Foundation, Rev. Pat Robertson of the Christian Broadcasting Network, Jerry Falwell, Senator Trent Lott, Southern Baptist Convention activists and retired Texas Court of Appeals Judge Paul Pressler, and the Rev. Paige Patterson ,[5] Senator Don Nickles, former United States Attorneys General Ed Meese and John Ashcroft, gun-rights activist Larry Pratt, Col. Oliver North, and philanthropist Else Prince, mother of Erik Prince, the founder of the Blackwater private security firm.
CNP members have taken millions of dollars from Rev. Sun Myung Moon, the founder of the Unification Church and the conservative Washington Times newspaper, and are aligned with various other groups supported by him such as CAUSA International.[12] Moon's religious message places him as superior to Jesus Christ. Moon was crowned "King of Peace" in a ceremony in the United States Senate Office Building, (not before the actual United States Senate).[13] CNP members have also supported legislation proposed by the Church of Scientology.[6]
CNP also has membership links to the World Anti-Communist League, whose many other members included, among others, the Unification Church and backers of rightist paramilitary death squads in Latin America, particularly during the 1980s.
Bla,bla,bla……………
Read or go online yourself it will take an hour here and there but follow the trails:
And yes the death squads what would we do without them: Reagan hated anything to do with Nationalism or the thought of it. “School of the Americans” [SOA] even though started before him hence the Rand publication on Peru I posted a few back. He was the worst. It was it be about creating an experiment and looked at one time could have gone right but someone made sure it would not. Our or your Government in South America made sure of that.
As for murders and killings in Africa:
Let’s see when South African “Madiba” [Nelson Mandela] passes away which will be a loss to a great man and great leader: Reagan did nothing and thought he was an Assh&le and the problem and not the solution. More murders, killings of innocent peasants with death squads created and funded by the US and His ass$ole crew and funding dictators: a favorite word at the time. But let’s see what Fox news and all Republicans that loved Ronnie say when Madiba leaves his country better when he got out rather that Reagan made sure he stayed in prison?
How about President Cheney? It was not until the last year of Bush years in office when you could call Bush the president. Lies again.
But this is what I am concerned with no tin foil hat: do your homework follow the trail it is right in front of you.
The Far Right Wing of the Republican Party beginning with those above and more that are on the list will change everything we know about rights and freedoms: One nation under God and it will their god
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The Data will go from terrorist to people that do not believe in god and not any god but their god, no abortion clinics and if anyone found having one jail for life, gays well bye, bye so long take it easy that will change with Ring Wing extremists judges and the Supreme corporation.
There will lists alright and if you go overseas like maybe to climb in one of those nice areas in Asia or in South America: Erik Prince and his R2 crew of Columbians or Africans that are paid a dollar a day will look to see if you are carrying a bible or you are not. But they have a data sheet already about you before you left and knew that you did drugs at some time years ago or protested about the Tea Party.
You will coming home in a body bag and the new State Department that they created will make sure they will tell your next of kin with lies on top of lies that you were shoot by member of a cell group with Al-Qaida. They will have photos to show to cover up their tracks.
Their religious [Theocracy] revolution will not last long since there are people in the same business that know what is right and wrong and the truth will come out.
Could be Snowden knows this already; will find out soon but for what he has done the discussion just might enlighten some to think what could happen if data gets in the wrong hands and is abused.
Abused sure it will never happen, why are we always is court.
The News or Media is controlled by Big Corporations. Take a look at Comcast and see there collection of companies that control what you read and see.
Time Warner, Bank of America, the list keeps going and going ...............Misinformation to fool or control the people.
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WBraun
climber
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True to form Hedge-mony presents us with more govt. media supplied regurgitated watered down whitewash.
Since he doesn't know how to use the internet.
Instead we get brilliant logic as example: asbestos is good and keeps your house insulated in relation to the use of drones.
Being Goebbels lackey is fitting for such.
He trained you well .......
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Try to stay current Riley -
From this week's Wired Magazine: "Courts Can’t Agree on Whether Cops Can Track Your Cell Without a Warrant"
Federal law enforcement agents have been using warrantless cell-tower locational tracking of criminal suspects in the wake of the Supreme Court’s ruling 18 months ago that they need probable-cause warrants from judges to affix covert GPS devices to vehicles.
I will add this a second time - in 1998/99 the major Telco I worked was mandated to allow both the FBI and the local PD/Sheriff to install data monitoring lines directly into the Central Control and Monitoring panel of the master phone switch in all Central Offices in North America. Hard to ask for a warrant when they could look anytime without a warrant or even without us knowing they had done so.
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WBraun
climber
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Courts Can’t Agree
Of course they can't.
They're stupid mental speculators.
They have no one ultimately in charge nor do they know who is in charge.
They have no soul ........
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TomCochrane
Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
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Wherein William Binney, one of the "whistleblowers", calls Snowden a traitor for exposing field op-sec, which is what I and Riley have been saying all along.
You take this out of context...he says Snowden should be tried AFTER all the executives at NSA, DOJ, and the White House
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