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lostinshanghai
Social climber
someplace
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Any names? Links?
Stories, anecdotes, rumors?
Anything?
Well for starts lies about Viet Nam but that's easy.
Try this one 1968, When Ronnie got in a tad later with his crew that was the same crew who lied and murdered under Bushie 1 and II and still do hell that's easy too
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goatboy smellz
climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
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Privacy was never mentioned in the constitution or the bill of rights.
You folks need to settle down, you're just not that important to the NSA for them to care about you.
Except Hedge, he's a dead man.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Imagine how Nixon and Hoover could have magnified their Enemies List with the internet spying tools of today.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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The founding father's couldn't have fathomed internet, telecommunications, cell phones, etc. There is a whole bunch of sh*t that they didn't know would happen. That's why there are amendments made to our laws, to update.
Uh oh..
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324436104578582253203190728.html
Bolivia said Tuesday that a plane carrying President Evo Morales home from Moscow was forced to land in Austria after France and Portugal denied permission for it to enter their airspace, amid speculation that he could be carrying National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden.
Bolivian Foreign Minister David Choquehuanca denied at a news conference in Bolivia's capital La Paz that Mr. Snowden was on board. He said having him on the plane would have violated international norms.
Yes the EU is pissed at Obama...but they won't let a plane carrying a foreign leader fly over their airspace if they even think Snowden's on it
Time to start waking up...this is treason, plain and simple.
It's not treason. The U.S. is very powerful, they can manipulate smaller governments into doing whatever. We have our hands in everything everywhere. For you to assume those countries are doing it because he's a traitor, you are a simple minded fool following what the government wants you sheople to think. He could have gone about this a lot more clever and quietly if he was a traitor.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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What point are you trying to make with that? Bush pardoned the leaker, and refused to fire the others.
The point I'm making is that when the Administration blows the cover of a covert agent, it's pardoned--not even a day in jail for anyone. But when whistleblowers like Manning, Drake, and Snowden blow the Admin's cover, everybody yells Treason! Yet none of these whistleblowers have actually revealed any covert agent names.
As Chris Hedges put it, Snowden has done what in the past was the way people leaked the wrong-doings of the gov't. They leak it to the press, and the press filtered the information before printing.
This method of keeping an eye on the gov't is now taken away. Snowden knew they could trace where the leak came from, so he gave himself up beforehand.
In the end the Obama administration is not afraid of whistleblowers like me, Bradley Manning or Thomas Drake. We are stateless, imprisoned, or powerless. No, the Obama administration is afraid of you. It is afraid of an informed, angry public demanding the constitutional government it was promised — and it should be.
 Edward Joseph Snowden |
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WBraun
climber
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I knew Hedge couldn't for the life of him find the real stuff on this.
This proves he's a useless tool.
he doesn't have clue how to use the internet ......
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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good links, Hedge
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Joe, of course you're right. I can't say the Admin was responsible for the leak. Indeed, a suspect for the leak was never identified.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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But when whistleblowers like Manning, Drake, and Snowden blow the Admin's cover, everybody yells Treason! Yet none of these whistleblowers have actually revealed any covert agent names.
How do you know? For you to know that, the gov't would have to publicly confirm that. They can't do that.
For that to happen, it would have to happen in a Court process that is closed to the public (OHHHHHH! Like is happening with Manning right now!)
And you wondered about the need of getting security clearances for all involved in Manning's trial, and some of it being closed to the public..........
Thanks for making the point.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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We are overlooking a key point in this discussion - that being that when one finds themselves living under a governmental system that no longer respects it's own laws - then we have a obligation to expose this government however we can.
Simply put - you spy on us - we hack you.
This is one option of self-empowerment left to the citizenry and is a provident, if somewhat unforeseen result of technology.
It is unfortunate that we as so-called "free citizens" have come to realize that our own government so fears and distrusts as to stoop to this degree of intrusion.
I cannot help but support the notion that if we do not expose and hopefully halt this denigration here and now - then we doom ourselves to further exploitation by a not-too-distant administration. One thing that history has shown as true is that once power is gotten, the urge to use that power becomes impossible to resist.
How long before we ourselves become "enemies of the state"?
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Hedge - I think what confuses you about our collective concern with this situation boils down to trust.
Going back to Nixon, I have asked myself the question " How much trust do I place in my Government to hold my best interests in heart"?
Over the last decades, I have come to the conclusion that no elected official at the Federal acts in the interest of the "people".
I cannot help but feel that the actions are instead driven to satisfy the whims of themselves and those to whom they are financially beholden.
The sheer volume of money that passes through Washington originates from relatively few entities. Do you really expect me to believe that a return on that investment is not part of the transaction?
To ask me to trust our government is to ask me to trust a shell organization funded by corporations and private donors marketed to the consumer as efficiently and effectively as the latest new car.
Wrapping this turd in the flag doesn't male it less of a turd.
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WBraun
climber
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These apparatus will be abused by the very people we're told we have no business overseeing
It's not will be abused.
It's has been abused for a long long time.
This knowledge has been known for a long long time to begin with.
Very long time.
Naive people here .......
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Holy crap man - how do you keep justifying covert actions agaisnt US?
"We The People" - remember that one? I'm sure you have at least one bumper sticker on your truck with those words.
From the scope of Snowden's revelations, we are no longer talking targeted covert surveillance on confirmed enemies - we are talking about broad spectrum spying on every man, woman, child and pet in the entire continental United States.
Are we ALL under suspicion? Are we ALL worthy of covert surveillance just in case we are up to something? How soon before this hidden monolith decrees another class of people to be "terrorists"?
I dare say that most on this site have a living relative who recalls when we decided that Americans of Japanese descent were considered a "threat". And that one was easy to pull off since you could look at them. Now that our faces are digital, how easy it would be to construct a threat from selective editing of innocent phone calls, emails, and chatroom postings.
Who will our next enemy be - a political affiliation, a lifestyle choice, an economic class, you, me?
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Hey rsin - I think we signed that one away with the Patriot Act.
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WBraun
climber
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Can some one post that if it exists?
Are you guys really that lame?????
It's been coming out for years.
You guys really are lame and naive.
Un fuking believable.
Sheep ....
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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No good deed goes unpunished.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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They're monitoring public interactions, not private conversations. Constitutionally no different than the example I gave - watching 2 people talking from 100 feet away.
jhedge
Joe, care to take a closer look? Is their spying still valid from your POV? How far would they have to go before you thought something wasn't right?
PS. Dingus, those are a few very nicely written posts; good on ya!
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Riley, as has been said--and roundly believed--the NSA chiefs lie for a living.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Come on Lovegosoline, don't you understand? They do it in secret, in the name of security, so it's all OK.
Can't you think of other successful governments that lead in this way?
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crøtch
climber
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NSA chief admits lying
He's lying in his admission to lying. Claiming his answer was erroneous. It was not an error, it was a lie. At least the media is placing "erroneous" in quotes. Earlier he said it was the "least untruthful answer" he could give.
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