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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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That's cuz no one else was arrested. Detained briefly, yes. Happens all the time at these events. Same happened at VA Tech. I sure wouldn't want to be in the media if I was detained either.
She was not planning on committing him. She was devoted to him and wanted to follow him to college or wherever to help him succeed.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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The reliable sources have backed away from that claim. Now we are left with the blogosphere echoing and enhancing falsehoods back and forth.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Ed suggested: "One cannot read the 2nd Amendment as a license to engage in illegal activities, as rebellion would be."
I disagree Ed, that's exactly what the 2nd amendment is. If you look at the Black Panthers manifesto, they achieved a lot of their goals.
or as Jefferson would say: "A little rebellion now and then is a good thing and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.
THOMAS JEFFERSON, letter to James Madison, Jan. 30, 1787"
full quote from Monticello site: "Societies exist under three forms sufficiently distinguishable. 1. Without government, as among our Indians. 2. Under governments wherein the will of every one has a just influence, as is the case in England in a slight degree, and in our states in a great one. 3. Under governments of force: as is the case in all other monarchies and in most of the other republics. To have an idea of the curse of existence under these last, they must be seen. It is a government of wolves over sheep. It is a problem, not clear in my mind, that the 1st. condition is not the best. But I believe it to be inconsistent with any great degree of population. The second state has a great deal of good in it. The mass of mankind under that enjoys a precious degree of liberty and happiness. It has it’s evils too: the principal of which is the turbulence to which it is subject. But weigh this against the oppressions of monarchy, and it becomes nothing. Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem. Even this evil is productive of good. It prevents the degeneracy of government, and nourishes a general attention to the public affairs. I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.[1] Unsuccesful rebellions indeed generally establish the incroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions, as not to discourage them too much. It is a medecine necessary for the sound health of government." - Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Paris, January 30, 1787[2]
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Face it mono, regardless of what you have heard, what credible witnesses have said, or any other facts that come to light, nothing counts as much as Ron's opinion. That's how LEOs work... if they end up being wrong, they just fix it in the report.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Plenty of motive, Ron. He was psycho. Maybe on prescription drugs. Finally snapped. The mother was away for three days, then he shot her when she came back. Plenty of time to get at secured weapons, and stew alone over something.
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monolith
climber
albany,ca
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Once you commit that first heinous crime, like shooting your mother in the head multiple times, whatever follows is not much of a surprise.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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How many thousands of violent heinous crimes are committed against someone the assailant personally had a problem with vs. psychotics killing random people/kids?
People murder people every second of every day. The VAST majority do not go kill random people and themselves afterwards. It's a huge step from killing someone you hate to killing random people you do not know.
I have yet to see a complete report of everything this kid was on, or anyone of the recent killers for that matter, including ones we KNOW were medicated (like Holmes). It's being covered up by lots and lots of green stuff. Nobody wants to say a damn thing.
They're even doing a DNA analysis on Adam L... What a waste. Everyone is dancing around the fact that we know certain chemicals can cause this exact behavior in any one of us.
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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Everyone is dancing around the fact that we know certain chemicals can cause this exact behavior in any one of us.
And that certain tools make this exact behavior much more destructive.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Taggants! a crazy idea from the past discredited but comes up now and then.
why is this a crazy idea? It would certainly provide information about where ammunition comes from, and also provide a tie between a shooter and the discharge. Seems to be a potential effective criminal prosecution technology.
As for rebellion being written into the 2nd Amendment, it is not... and while the "framers" talked a lot about rebellion "being good" it doesn't mean it is legal, or supported by the constitution, it is not.
The Shay's rebellion, which is the one Jefferson wrote about,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shay%27s_rebellion
happens before the current Constitution... and likely resulted in the strengthening of Federal power, not the diminishing of it... though STForum historians could probably weigh in on this...
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jstan
climber
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From Lanza's point of view it was just a suicide. That was the only death that mattered. You look at his history and what seems true is that he never really mattered. No one ever required anything of him. Well, he decided his exit would matter. He would fix that.
Even here on ST we have had situations where products of big pharma have caused devastation. These side effects are well known and have been a factor in similar events. Pull this up on the net and look at what you see.
Why are we not insisting the FDA look into this? Very seriously.
The industry value of these drugs is reported variously as between $3,000,0000,0000 and $10,000,000,000 a year. While their efficacy is under serious medical question.
The report below says 10% of our population has used these antidepressants, and use doubled in just ten years. If we say the chance of these killings occurs out at six sigma that comes to 30 people.
That's getting there. That's getting there.
http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2009/08/03/antidepressant-use-in-us-has-almost-doubled
By Amanda Gardner
HealthDay Reporter
MONDAY, Aug. 3 (HealthDay News) -- Antidepressant use among U.S. residents almost doubled between 1996 and 2005, along with a concurrent rise in the use of other psychotropic medications, a new report shows.
The increase seemed to span virtually all demographic groups.
"Over 10 percent of people over the age of 6 were receiving anti-depression medication. That strikes me as significant," said study author Dr. Mark Olfson, a professor of clinical psychiatry at Columbia University/New York State Psychiatric Institute in New York City.
According to background information in the study, antidepressants are now the most widely prescribed class of drugs in the United States. The expansion in use dates back to the 1980s, with the introduction of the antidepressant Prozac (fluoxetine).
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Thought this was an interesting article:
"According to the FBI annual crime statistics, the number of murders committed annually with hammers and clubs far outnumbers the number of murders committed with a rifle.
This is an interesting fact, particularly amid the Democrats' feverish push to ban many different rifles, ostensibly to keep us safe of course.
However, it appears the zeal of Sens. like Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) and Joe Manchin (D-WV) is misdirected. For in looking at the FBI numbers from 2005 to 2011, the number of murders by hammers and clubs consistently exceeds the number of murders committed with a rifle.
Think about it: In 2005, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 445, while the number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 605. In 2006, the number of murders committed with a rifle was 438, while the number of murders committed with hammers and clubs was 618.
And so the list goes, with the actual numbers changing somewhat from year to year, yet the fact that more people are killed with blunt objects each year remains constant.
For example, in 2011, there was 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs.
While the FBI makes is clear that some of the "murder by rifle" numbers could be adjusted up slightly, when you take into account murders with non-categorized types of guns, it does not change the fact that their annual reports consistently show more lives are taken each year with these blunt objects than are taken with Feinstein's dreaded rifle.
Another interesting fact: According to the FBI, nearly twice as many people are killed by hands and fists each year than are killed by murderers who use rifles.
The bottom line: A rifle ban is as illogical as it is unconstitutional. We face far greater danger from individuals armed with carpenters' tools and a caveman's stick.
And it seems fairly obvious that if more people had a gun, less people would be inclined to try to hit them in the head with a hammer."
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TradEddie
Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
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Thought this was an interesting article: When was the last time someone entered a crowded place with a hammer and killed twenty people? How many people are accidentally killed by a hammer each year? There are far more blunt instruments in the world, so on a per-item basis, rifles are still much more dangerous, and I'm willing to bet that the proportion of murders vs. manslaughter is much higher for the rifle homicides.
Finally, if you assign the "type not stated" number in proportion to the stated types, then you don't just get a "slight increase", those numbers come much closer.
Still, rifles are not the biggest problem, but nobody ever said they were. The full content of those homicide statistics is much more troubling.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10shrtbl08.xls
TE
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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There is no feverish push to ban many types of rifles. There is legitimate concern to consider banning assault rifles capable of killing dozens of people in minutes and/or make it harder for mentally unstable people to acquire them.
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WBraun
climber
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Anybody seen any bodies?
Lanza bodies? The mother and son?
Nope nothing, zilch, nada.
Only thing you all have seen is what you've been fed.
The herd is always fed by the farmer .......
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splitter
Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
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WB - Anyone seen the bodies?
Really Werner, get a grip on things bro (reality)!
I am sure there are PLENTY of individuals that have seen THE bodies (unfortunately). And they probabaly work in a similar capacity as you. If you really wanted to see pictures, or speak to the first responders & various follow-up responders, etc, they would confirm the deaths. Or better yet, speak with their loved ones, I'm sure they have "seen their bodies"!!
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mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
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WB, why do you keep coming back to the trough? Aren't you full yet? Maybe you need to go walk some of it off?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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jstan,
The FDA keeps a very tight reign on antidepressants. The prescribing doctors, of course, still have discretion on their use.
I, for one, am very grateful for the existence of both doctors and antidepressants. As I've posted elsewhere, I suffer from an endogenous depression (i.e. unrelated to outside events or circumstances), and have been on medication since 2005. The only effects of that medication have been to eliminate the depression and to give me extremely entertaining dreams. I rather suspect that I will need medication for the rest of my life, but if that's what it takes to live normally, I'm happy.
Of course, I'm also very fortunate. I've had chats with at least one other poster who was prescribed the same medication I take, with bad results. I've heard enough other stories to convince me that the benefits of antidepressants are oversold. If I'm unhappy because my wife died, I probably don't need an antidepressant; I need time. If, as I was, I'm not only unhappy, but don't seem to give a rip about anything, for no good reason, that's where antidepressants may do some good, but the results appear to be highly idiosyncratic.
My personal take is that both antidepressants and their criticisms are exaggerated. For me, they were a magic bullet (pun intended on this thread) that has completely controlled my disease, but we still have a lot to learn about brain chemistry and how to manage it better.
John
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