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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 15, 2009 - 03:35pm PT
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>>Insert post here about how much % the rich pay of total taxes, but of course neglect to say how much % of the GDP they bring in.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 03:37pm PT
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Chaz, I guess I see the distinction between rebate and cut as merely semantics, if the effect is the same. Tax rates or rebates: both can be changed any year, resulting in greater or lesser payments, no?
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the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Apr 15, 2009 - 03:37pm PT
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Author:
Porkchop_express
If these tea parties were protests geared towards teaching 1st graders how to use condoms or to advocate for rights for NAMBLA members, it would be "courageous" and "inspiring".
???dude, you support NAMBLA???
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 03:43pm PT
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LOL, Fet.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Apr 15, 2009 - 03:51pm PT
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Arggghhhhh
STFU you right-wingers and right twits. Your side f*cked up the country and economy, now let the liberal side give it a shot.
And does it really matter. Whoever can get the country back on track is deserving of praise. But I have to laugh at the right-twit idiots on this forum. And you deserve to be laughed at. Period. Full Stop. Twits. Idiots. And most assuredly, FOOLS.
Smile, big SMILE
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Apr 15, 2009 - 03:56pm PT
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Both parties have been deficit spending the children's money and grandchildren's money for decades now. The first big step was taken by Reagan and the GOP presidents have far more increased spending borrowed money more than any DEM president.
That said, Obama claims he is stuck in an emergency situation and has to do the same as Bush did, spend big money he doesn't have. They just print this damn money so it's a mystery how it really works. Do they know they are never going to pay it back? Will they deflate the dollar to reduce the debt?
Who knows. The bottom line is We were already totally screwed when Bush left office. Obama probably can't save us but it's not his fault, the deal was done before
Peace
Karl
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Binks
Social climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 05:17pm PT
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I'm fine with protesting taxes, but I fail to see how Obama's tax plan is very much different than any other administration's. The protests are just partisan politics. Bush's wars are basically a tax on all of us. I don't think a Republican president would have done much differently with regards to the bailouts of financial institutions, except to an even greater extent they would shield the rich and corporate interests. Line items, really. Again, partisan politics are what fuel the protests, not substance. Now, if the protests were aimed at the government as a whole, then I would find them valid.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 05:22pm PT
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Well, I guess Skip doesn't have a source to back up his extraoridnary claims about Obama claiming political opponents are terrorists.
So, Skip is just making sh#t up or mindlessly regurgitating right-wing radio talking points again.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Apr 15, 2009 - 05:26pm PT
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i see him walking around listlessly, in heavy boots.
his hands in his full-up pockets,
kicking pebbles and lamenting on his folly:
"if only i could be unburdened of this horrible and binding fear of running out of money."
"then i could walk a barefoot mile in the autumn hills of vermont, enlightened."
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Binks
Social climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 06:09pm PT
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Yeah the Repubs are mostly complete idiots. It's just that the Dems are only a tiny bit better. The whole system sucks.
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nb3000
Social climber
America's Most Hated
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Apr 15, 2009 - 06:09pm PT
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While I agree with the general sentiment of keeping the gov't out of my pockets, but this "protest" is silly. Incited by right-wing organizations who swear up-and-down its a "grassroots movement".
The republican presidential nominee was crushed by the democratic campaign's use of the internet and social networking sites to promote Obama, and further capitalized on his image as a pop icon among young voters. The right realizes this, and these "tea party protests" are a dry-run to see what it takes. The right is really flailing here, looking for any kind of footing to try and build up enough steam to replace Obama with a republican in 2012.
Trying to make the public forget all about BushCo. But where are the new ideas and fresh points of view from the republican party? All I'm hearing also mentions "Reagan". Old hat.
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dirtbag
climber
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Apr 15, 2009 - 08:32pm PT
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bookworm:
#1: Rev. Moon's Washington Times is a joke-rag.
#2: It still doesn't support Skippy Boy's claims.
And if you mean this papragraph:
"The Washington Times reported Tuesday that the department's Office of Intelligence and Analysis (I&A) released a report titled Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment on April 7. It identified as potential terrorist threats people who collect guns, veterans, supporters of border control, and pro-life advocates."
which supposedly paraphrases the report, then I would like to see the original language in the report before trusting the Rev. Moon's account of what it says.
And btw, Timothy McVeigh actually does fit the profile described in that paragraph.
Edit: and it is heartening to see the conservative movement finally identify themselves, rightfully, as right-wing extremists. :-)
Edit #2: It was ironic seeing several tax protesters leaving their protest today on publicly funded public transportation.
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Apr 15, 2009 - 09:50pm PT
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When one's head is located on the inside of one's own bingus... It's easy to see why....
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 15, 2009 - 10:55pm PT
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07.04.2009
Americans More Optimistic; Still Hate GOP
The latest New York Times poll is loaded with good news for the Obama administration and news that would be devastating for the GOP if it were ever able to penetrate the conservative-media echo chamber. While the public is still pretty pessimistic about the future, it's considerably less so than it was before Barack Obama took office. Thirty-nine percent of respondents in the Times poll think the country is going in the right direction and 53 percent say the wrong direction, a substantial improvement from January, when the numbers were 15 and 79, respectively. Similarly, 20 percent of those polled think the economy is getting better and 34 percent worse, versus 7 and 54 in January.
But it's the political numbers that are truly striking. Obama has a 66 percent approval rating, which is the highest this poll has recorded, while the GOP's favorability is at 31 percent, the lowest the poll has recorded in 25 years of asking the question. Arguably more remarkable still is that, asked whether Obama or the GOP Congress would be more likely to make "the right decisions about the nation's economy," respondents broke for Obama 63 percent to 20 percent. That means that even within the 31 percent rump that holds a positive view of the GOP, at least a third trust Obama's instincts on the economy equally or more. And why shouldn't they? Despite Rush Limbaugh's best efforts just 2 percent of respondents blame Obama for the state of the economy, compared to 33 percent who blame George W. Bush. (Wall Street and Congress come in for 21 and 11 percent, respectively.)
The Democratic Party, while not as popular as its leader, is still pretty popular, with 56 percent favorability. Moreover, 19 percent fewer respondents think the Democrats are too heavily influenced by "big business" than feel the Republicans are, and the Dems have a massive 35-point edge on the question of "which party is more concerned with the needs and problems of people like yourself." The poll also gives the Dems a 16-point edge in respondent self-identification, up from 10 points in February, and just a tick off the inaugural high of 18 points. (Without sifting through the figures too obsessively, this looks like the largest edge since 1992.)
There's more along these lines on taxes (74 percent of respondents think raising them on those earning over $250K is a "good idea"), health care (57 percent say they're willing to pay higher taxes themselves for universal coverage), foreign policy, and the like. The usual caveats all apply, of course--it's just one poll (though others seem to generally conform), public sentiment is volatile, etc., etc. Still, I encourage anyone interested to give the whole poll a look.
--Christopher Orr
Posted: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 12:11 PM with 15 comment(s)
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Apr 16, 2009 - 06:54am PT
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"The majority of people that showed up were pathetic losers and meth dealers'
seriously, dr. f, let's try to maintain at least a pretense of intellectual integrity...statements like this just make you sound like an idiot...i'll grant you "loser" since that's an opinion, but "meth dealers"? idiot alert: meth dealers don't pay taxes anyway
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Apr 16, 2009 - 09:25am PT
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No problem Dr. F
It is an incredibly target rich envirement. Right wing ignorance breeds incompetence, irrational childlike hatreds and slogans.
Why any minute I expect a forum Republican to argue that Obama should use more, or less, sheets of toilet paper when he wipes his ass. Makes no difference, whatever he or any member of his administration do, they will immediately criticize and take the other side. That's all they got now, no ideas, no solutions to any problems, their party marginalized and irrelevant, left out of any meaningful policy making.
Hey maybe they will point out, as valid criticism, that Obama has bony fingers, or asked friends to call him barry as a teenager because they had problems easily pronoucing correctly "barack". This would show how immature, ignorant, and full of irrational hate some right wing forum members are.
F*#k them, they got nothing left but hate.
Gotto go make a living to pay for the big government programs like social security for my mom and dad, and disability for my wife. Oh my, generational theft! Think of the children?
So much spending, so little time. The Sky is Falling!
Well, I have to drive 200 miles round trip today to one of my retail stores to terminate an employee and start interviewing for a replacement. No internet access until back at home this evening.
Later guys, regardless of how you vote, try to have a good day!
norton
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Risk
Mountain climber
Olympia, WA
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Apr 16, 2009 - 10:40am PT
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I found this interesting and related to some of the discussion here.
Turning the ship around toward new destinations is turning out to be a big job for Obama. Good thing he likes his job.
New York Times April 16, 2009 Pg. 12
Pentagon Closes Office Accused Of Issuing Propaganda Under Bush
By Thom Shanker
WASHINGTON - A Pentagon office responsible for coordinating Defense Department information campaigns overseas has been abolished in an effort by the Obama administration to distance itself from past practices that some military officers called propaganda, senior officials said Wednesday.
Military and civilian critics said the office, the Defense Department office for support to public diplomacy, overstepped its mandate during the final years of the Bush administration by trying to organize information operations that violated Pentagon guidelines for accuracy and transparency.
Pentagon officials said the position of deputy assistant secretary of defense for support to public diplomacy had been eliminated, with the staff members reassigned and the office closed.
Senior Pentagon officials said the decision to close the office was made by Michele A. Flournoy, the new under secretary of defense for policy, and was meant to ensure that global communications efforts by the Defense Department and military would be aligned with the rest of the government.
"Because of the history of the office, we needed a fresh start in how we integrate the critical function of strategic communications across the board," said a senior Pentagon official, who spoke anonymously to discuss a change that has not been publicly announced.
The office was created in 2007 to be the central point within the vast Pentagon bureaucracy and far-flung military to coordinate the Defense Department's overseas information efforts with the rest of the government, in particular the White House, the State Department and American embassies.
But American military officers in Afghanistan in particular were angered last year by sets of "talking points" provided by the office for use in responding to queries on matters like civilian casualties. Officers who received the talking points predicted that the information would be seen by the Afghan public as blatant propaganda, and they refused to use them.
Officials said the Pentagon would now play a supporting role to the White House and the State Department in communicating government messages to foreign audiences, with the efforts no longer centralized in one place but assigned to each Pentagon policy office and regional military combatant commander.
Questions over the proper role of the Pentagon in public diplomacy have lingered since it was disclosed in 2002 that the Defense Department had created the Office of Strategic Influence; that office, a forerunner of the Pentagon public diplomacy office, was shut down after members of Congress expressed concerns that its behind-the-scenes efforts to shape public sentiment in wartime might undermine the military's credibility.
Even in a supporting role, the Defense Department has far greater resources in money, trained communications personnel and broadcast and print technology than any other government agency or department.
Another senior Defense Department official briefed on the decision said the military, by its size and global reach, remained one of the government's most visible tools for projecting American influence and defining its values, especially in operations short of combat, like humanitarian aid and disaster relief missions.
"The goal should be to produce words and actions that are matched," the official said. "There still is a great need for a concerted effort in the planning stages of policy, execution and communications."
The Obama administration has inherited a complex policy debate over how to communicate messages abroad during wartime, one that remained unresolved by the Bush administration despite a series of appointments of high-profile communications officials.
There is no disagreement that extremist and terrorist ideology is spread over the Internet and by videos with an agility not matched by either the government or the military, but there has been no agreement on a detailed plan of how to respond.
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