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kc
Trad climber
lg, ca
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Jun 23, 2009 - 09:26pm PT
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Many arguments for/against. From my experience, I'd rather see a guy circumcised than not. The real question for women? Are you willing to give oral to the uncircumcised? Not me, my friend. Now, that sounds like the deciding factor! :)
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jun 23, 2009 - 10:33pm PT
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I'm not a woman, but do have two sons. My wife and I discussed the issue and just couldn't see how we could justify having our son's circumcised. Yeah, sure most everyone does it, without even thinking, but why? I can't see performing surgery, any surgery unless it is a life saving procedure.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jun 23, 2009 - 10:45pm PT
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Keeping his winky out of people infected with HIV is the most effective way to lessen his chance of contacting HIV.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Jun 23, 2009 - 11:06pm PT
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Damn I thought this was CLIMBING related! Read Russ' post about more helmets topping out on El Cap, that's climbing related, this thread IS not!
Peace
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jun 23, 2009 - 11:10pm PT
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It's akin to me having my kids stomach's stapled to keep them from getting fat, vs. just having them eating decent food.
Since when has supertopo stayed on topic?
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Jun 23, 2009 - 11:13pm PT
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Yeah yer right!
Peace
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factortwo
Social climber
Placerville, ca
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Jun 23, 2009 - 11:36pm PT
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Well, it has been over a year since i posted this question. It has been nice to see a lively debate even if most people ignored the question. As it turns out, I had a beautiful 7lb 13oz baby girl. I have therefore been absolved of making the choice.
A little off topic but she has already been to Lovers Leap, Sugarloaf, Joshua Tree, Veadawoo, Boulder Canyon, Owens river Gorge, Buttermilks, and the incomparable Consumnes River Gorge.
In closing, I think if my progeny had external junk, I would have spared him the knife. Although being lighter he might have climbed harder.
Peace
and thanks for the beta.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Jun 23, 2009 - 11:41pm PT
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Cool factortwo, congratulations on the birth of your daughter, hope the two of you(family)are doing well!
Peace
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jun 23, 2009 - 11:46pm PT
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hey there factortwo... ahhhhhhhhhhh, congratulations on the baby girl... i just love babies!...
wow, just think... if she chooses to have kids some day, you and your wife and her, will perhaps have this very same concerned discussions, share, and study-up...
oh my...
said in kindness and the fun of how things pass on down the generation line....
once again, congratulations! :)
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 24, 2009 - 01:20pm PT
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Edit: August, there are as many studies that suggest the opposite. But think about it, if a study suggested that not eating prevented obesity, would you starve yourself?
I thought the link was an interesting update to this thread. I think there are two separate questions: Is there a [potential] health benefit to cicrumcision?; Even if there is, should it be done, especially on infants?
I think the first is clearly yes. New Scientist is a rigerous scientific magazine with a long standing reputation and they cite check their information. I could search and post other links, but I suspect it would be like the global warming debate (someone who doesn't want to be convinced, won't). And I doubt the Bill and Melinda foundation would spend ~50 million on an unproven program to force a culturally bogus procedure down African throats (although I will admit stranger things have happened).
And from what I have read, it is not a matter of washing/hygiene. The specific type of cells that HIV infects are much more prevalent in the foreskin and this makes it easier for the disease to get established.
The obesity question is a great example. Yes, a diet that is sufficiently calorie restricted will cause weight loss. But the obesity epidemic is much more complicated than that.
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Boltgrl
Ice climber
Winslow, AZ
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Jun 24, 2009 - 01:59pm PT
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in my experience, they're all the same when they're hard. isnt that what the OP was asking? they seem "different" only because the majority of men are circumscised. if uncircumcsised were the norm, circumscised would seem odd.
circumcsion is genital mutilation, plain and simple. we gasp with horror when we hear about what they do to girls genitalia in african countries; but we westerners put our young male infants under the knife for no reason other than "tradition".
there is no design flaw in the male body, whether you look at it from an evolutionary or religious perspective.
if a guy practices good hygiene (if boys were to be taught this, like girls are), then they are not any more "dirty" than women are. statistics are a fickle lot.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 24, 2009 - 02:08pm PT
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Tami for President!
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Jun 24, 2009 - 02:25pm PT
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I'd look like Ganesha with little ears.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jun 24, 2009 - 04:57pm PT
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i tried to stay out, i dont much give a damn whether you knife your sons or not. i would; however, ask that you witness the procedure then you decide if it was worth it. otherwise your full of sh#t.
this particular statement by AW is wrong:
"And from what I have read, it is not a matter of washing/hygiene. The specific type of cells that HIV infects are much more prevalent in the foreskin and this makes it easier for the disease to get established."
hiv is passed through bodily fluids, end of story. if the end of your dick is rubbed raw then maybe, so the question is, wwill you rub your dick raw faster with or without a foreskin? i dont know, i have not performed that study. unless you are an MD who strictly deals with hiv, i know more than you.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jun 25, 2009 - 12:55pm PT
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there is no design flaw in the male body, whether you look at it from an evolutionary or religious perspective.
Really? So nobody ever needs prescription glasses. Nobody should ever need insulin shots? Nobody should ever need an organ transplant? (or maybe it is just the females that need those things -;)
I'm not especially argueing for circumcision, especially in the case of infants. But I think it wrong to deny science just because it does not accord with the way one would like the world to work. Because of the number of people denying the connection, when I stumbled across the New Scientist/Gates foundation tidbit, it reminded me of this thread.
And for those of you who think there is no health benefit to the procedure, I wonder:
Do you think the story about the Gate's foundation doing this is just a hoax?
Do you think the Gate's foundation is doing this but they have been completely duped and their action won't save any lives?
Do you think the Gate's foudation knows the procedure won't save any lives, but they decided to spend $50 million for some other [nefarious?] purpose?
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franky
climber
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Jun 25, 2009 - 02:05pm PT
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An anteater has its advantages and disadvantages, but that cdc report is pretty convincing. On the other hand, leave the decision to your kid. It is just as easy to lop it off on a 12 year old as it is on a 1 month old.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jun 25, 2009 - 02:12pm PT
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Well, I would have to say that I have ALWAYS wondered "WTF!? This has GOT to be a design flaw" on the first day Aunt Flo visits each month.... Why, I ask. Why do we have to have cramps?
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Boltgrl
Ice climber
Winslow, AZ
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Jun 25, 2009 - 03:19pm PT
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exactly, hg. just be grateful no one in our society decided a thousand years ago that it WAS a flaw and to sew up or hack away at OUR genitals at birth.
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ontos
Trad climber
Washington DC
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Jun 25, 2009 - 04:07pm PT
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Why not just go the full monty and cut the whole thing off; probably reduce the STD risk to near zero.
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tinker b
climber
the commonwealth
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Jun 27, 2009 - 02:44pm PT
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since you asked the ladies...
i like the foreskin and it makes hand jobs easier...
and maybe mainstream girls will freak, but do you really want your son dating them type. they will also be afraid of bugs, dirt, and upset about the crazy climbing you want your kid to be doing.
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