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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Oct 12, 2015 - 01:19pm PT
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well i don't know what was goin' on here in the the hood back then,
but across the sea, this chick was gettin' it ON!
After a struggle to claim her right to the throne, she reorganized the governmental system, brought the crime rate to the lowest it had been in years, and unburdened the kingdom of the enormous debt her brother had left behind. Her reforms and those she made with her husband had an influence that extended well beyond the borders of their united kingdoms. Isabella and Ferdinand are known for completing the Reconquista, ordering conversion or exile of their Muslim and Jewish subjects in the Spanish Inquisition, and for supporting and financing Christopher Columbus's 1492 voyage that led to the opening of the New World and to the establishment of Spain as the first global power who dominated Europe and much of the world for more than a century. Isabella was granted the title Servant of God by the Catholic Church in 1974.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isabella_I_of_Castile ~~~~ while she did dig a good TR, she rightfully laid into christopher for wrongful enslavement.
raise your beer if you coulda stood a little isabella on your team
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 12, 2015 - 01:37pm PT
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My ancestor janse van bommel marselis was fined for selling alcohol to natives on a sunday back in the 1650's in what became Albany NY. my apologies to both natives and religious folk alike. I will whip myself for penance
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Oct 12, 2015 - 01:51pm PT
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In modern times, native American's consulted with the Italian mafia on how to run a casino that can prey on the gambling addictions of the modern big city white trash? Payback.
To take it further, we should go back to the indigenous days when women did all the work and there were no taxes... ;-)
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 12, 2015 - 01:59pm PT
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Since I bumped this thread, I'll share a few random thoughts.
•Columbus had mighty big balls and took an interest in the world. Kudos for that. A lot of other curious motherf*#kers have cajones, too.
•Finding a New World was still an act of dumb luck.
•But would you want your kids emulating him? Or honor him with a holiday?
They (the Arawak Indians) ... brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things, which they exchanged for the glass beads and hawks' bells. They willingly traded everything they owned.... They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features.... They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane.... They would make fine servants.... With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want."
Yep, he really said that.
Who should we bestow holiday honors upon?
•Obviously this is a symbol for a bigger issue: the crap treatment of indigenous folks by Europeans and European descendants the last half milineum. Chris was worse than some, not as bad as others, but the most visible symbol.
•My partial Italian and indigenous person ancestry aside, I've got no skin in this game. But I do wonder whether appropriating Columbus Day and renaming it Indigenous Persons day is the best approach. It seems more reactive and bitter than proactive.
So how about this instead? Let's dump the Columbus Day festivities, because the man really was quite an as#@&%e, find an indigenous person to celebrate on a different day, and get behind that?
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 12, 2015 - 02:02pm PT
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They had never encountered metal and cut themselves because of it. They had plenty of weapons. Warfare was common. Its a tragedy what happened but it was part of the times. Not the first or last time a people with dominant technology has taken over another culture.
Or should Italians be blamed for destroying the Germanic culture?
I understand people have a need to "feel good" by blaming others but this anti US and specifically anti white male attitude is having serious negative effects on the youth of our nation. I am not sure how its helping anyone
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2015 - 02:25pm PT
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Happy Bartolome Day!
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 12, 2015 - 02:33pm PT
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Jim, that sopranos episode is hilarious--I've seen it many times.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Oct 12, 2015 - 03:50pm PT
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Right after they rammed Junipero Serra down our throats as a holy man, we get to go through this dismal crap again?
F*#k the Spaniards, The Dons, The Conquistadors, and their caste systems, their hierarchies, their mission system, the approval of the King of Spain and the Pope and all their canon of saints!
Oh, and don't forget the white bigots who perpetuate their sacred and honored accomplishments.
And Seattle is not an Italian name.
There is no society named the Braves of Seattle.
That could happen, but why would they want to leave Atlanta? Just sayin'.
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c wilmot
climber
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Oct 12, 2015 - 04:08pm PT
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white people blaming other white people for something that occurred over 500 years ago.
good stuff. I wish I was tolerant enough to be intolearant
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 12, 2015 - 04:56pm PT
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It's funny how people trash the founding of their homeland.
Stupid holiday anyway. The Pilgrams did the heavy lifting and Native contamination.
It was not intentional either! That's like saying an illegal from Guatemala really wanted to bring TB to children here.
Bachar and I went over this before.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Oct 12, 2015 - 07:38pm PT
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We celebrate Columbus Day and the Fourth of July because history is written by the winners. Had the Aztecs, the Mayans or the Iroquois Confederation developed the necessary technology and skills to cross the Atlantic and begin colonizing Europe, the fate of its native inhabitants would have been far uglier. The different perspectives on history often depend on which side you happen to be on.
To Americans, the Alamo is a shining moment of heroism. To the Mexicans who are the heirs of a colonialist empire far more ruthless than anything to be found north of the Rio Grande, the war was a plot to conquer Mexican territory. And neither side is altogether wrong, but choosing which version of history to go by is the difference between being an American or a Mexican.
A nation's mythology, its paragons and heroes, its founding legends and great deeds, are its soul. To replace them with another culture's perspective on its history is to kill that soul.
That is the ultimate goal of political correctness, to kill America's soul. To stick George Washington, Patrick Henry, Jefferson, James Bowie, Paul Revere, Alexander Hamilton, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin and all the rest on a shelf in a back room somewhere, and replace them with timelier liberal heroes. Move over Washington, Caesar Chavez needs this space. No more American heroes need apply.
Followed of course by no more America.
This is how it begins. And that is how it ends. Nations are not destroyed by atomic bombs or economic catastrophes; they are lost when they lose any reason to go on living. When they no longer have enough pride to go on fighting to survive.
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hooblie
climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
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Oct 12, 2015 - 08:29pm PT
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so indigiday is observed according to the (pope's) gregorian calendar?
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Oct 12, 2015 - 08:33pm PT
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I still can't accept the fact that my Native American Great Grandmother managed to be from the one tribe that still doesn't own a casino.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Being In Sierra Happy Of Place
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 12, 2015 - 08:35pm PT
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It's funny how people trash the founding of their homeland.
You need to go back a bit further, Bluey - short in your "homeland" take.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Oct 12, 2015 - 08:38pm PT
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Bluering is living proof that Homo Sapiens did in fact cross-breed with Neanderthals.
Also explains Republicans and Mouth Breathers now that I think about it.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 13, 2015 - 11:38am PT
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Eric, California and the US is my homeland. Born and raised. My families (paternal and maternal) fled northern and southern Europe to raise families here, to start a new life.
As for native Americans, it sucks what happened to them. No doubt. Even slaves bought from north African (muslim) slave-traders was a regrettable time in our somewhat brief history
As a country and American people, we are still a really great, caring people. There's an old Churchill quote that, "Americans always do the right thing after they done everything else wrong".
It doesn't sound charitable, but I think his point was that Americans persist and persevere until everything is good. And yes, we are not infallible.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 13, 2015 - 11:51am PT
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When are my Viking peeps gonna get some love? They were here second!
And then there was that drunken Irish monk.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Oct 13, 2015 - 12:02pm PT
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When are my Viking peeps gonna get some love? They were here second!
And then there was that drunken Irish monk.
Go back to Greenland!!! You guys had a pretty good thing there...until it froze. It was a pretty good score at the time.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Oct 13, 2015 - 12:35pm PT
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Instead of renaming Columbus Day, we could have a Custer Day on June 26 ;-)
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